-
When should you upgrade your hi-fi? How to control ‘upgradeitis’
Snake oil
- Thread starter admin_exported
- Start date
chebby
Well-known member
Fairly annoying bloke, but I did smirk at what he says right at the end. "If you pay ridiculous money for these cable you will hear a difference, but don't expect your friends to"
If you want to believe, you will.
If you want to believe, you will.
John Duncan
Well-known member
chebby:I am allergic to that much ARI.
It can be cured by good mains cables though. Or is that RFI?
It can be cured by good mains cables though. Or is that RFI?
A bit ranty, but I must admit I agree with a lot of it as well.
A number of years ago I had several different mid-priced interconnects from Audioquest (£30 - £150), which were all an improvement on the scrawny freebie type cables I was using, but the differences between the Audioquest cables were negligible, if any, although a mate and I convinced ourselves one (i.e. the more expensive one) was better than the others, mostly in the bass. Then a few years back when I was feeling a bit flush and having recently bought an entire new system (not sure why looking back, the one I had sounded pretty good) I pushed the boat out and bought an Audioquest Anaconda interconnect from the US that would've retailed for around £800/m I guess (I was in New Zealand at the time). When I got it I remember not being able to hear much of a difference between it and the much cheaper Audioquest cables I already had (yes, I did buy it blind - more fool me).
To serve as a further reminder of my folly, I picked up a Merlin interconnect for about £30 last year as I needed another cable (I sold the other Audioquest cables I had a few years back) and being a glutton for punishment did an A/B test with the Anaconda. There seems to be a slight difference between the two in favour of the Anaconda (slightly smoother treble), but I could be imagining it. Even if there was an improvement, is it worth £770 (probably closer to £900 in today's money)? I'd say not.
I've had similar experiences with speaker cables. Years ago I moved from some inexpensive generic decent gauge multi strand cable to some chunky Audioquest speaker cable (Crystal 2) and couldn't really tell the difference, but ended up buying it anyway, because I was convinced it must somehow sound better. A few years later I bought some Nordost Blue Heaven, which from memory sounded a bit brighter/more detailed but with less bass than the Crystal 2, but not necessarily any better. I ended up selling the Blue Heaven when I moved to the UK, but kept the Crystal 2 as it wasn't worth selling. I still use it now, however I have just bought some QED Revelation (it was half price and I was intrigued if it would sound any better given all the positive reviews) and found there to be distinct difference - not better or worse, just different. The QED cable sounds brighter/more detailed in the top end but the Crystal 2 has more body/mid-bass - similar to the experience I had with the Blue Heaven. I know I'm not imagining it either as my girlfriend who I made sit through an extensive A/B test with me agreed she could here a difference, describing the same sonic traits I experienced even though she didn't know what I was changing in the system and had no idea which was which (other than "the first one" and "the second one").
In terms of power cables, last year I bought a Copper Line Alpha cable, again out of interest, and I can't hear any difference when used with my amp or DAC.
Based on my above experiences I've come to the conclusion that once you've satisfied the minimum requirements of using a decent gauge/quality cable (this doesn't mean expensive), cables can't improve the sound, but may alter the character of the sound (or possibly more correctly alter the way the electronics perform/interact with each other). Possibly, the cable materials may contribute to this as well (a complete guess on my part) - I think both the Blue Heaven and Revelation are silver plated, although I don't know why this should fundamentally make any difference if any.
A number of years ago I had several different mid-priced interconnects from Audioquest (£30 - £150), which were all an improvement on the scrawny freebie type cables I was using, but the differences between the Audioquest cables were negligible, if any, although a mate and I convinced ourselves one (i.e. the more expensive one) was better than the others, mostly in the bass. Then a few years back when I was feeling a bit flush and having recently bought an entire new system (not sure why looking back, the one I had sounded pretty good) I pushed the boat out and bought an Audioquest Anaconda interconnect from the US that would've retailed for around £800/m I guess (I was in New Zealand at the time). When I got it I remember not being able to hear much of a difference between it and the much cheaper Audioquest cables I already had (yes, I did buy it blind - more fool me).
To serve as a further reminder of my folly, I picked up a Merlin interconnect for about £30 last year as I needed another cable (I sold the other Audioquest cables I had a few years back) and being a glutton for punishment did an A/B test with the Anaconda. There seems to be a slight difference between the two in favour of the Anaconda (slightly smoother treble), but I could be imagining it. Even if there was an improvement, is it worth £770 (probably closer to £900 in today's money)? I'd say not.
I've had similar experiences with speaker cables. Years ago I moved from some inexpensive generic decent gauge multi strand cable to some chunky Audioquest speaker cable (Crystal 2) and couldn't really tell the difference, but ended up buying it anyway, because I was convinced it must somehow sound better. A few years later I bought some Nordost Blue Heaven, which from memory sounded a bit brighter/more detailed but with less bass than the Crystal 2, but not necessarily any better. I ended up selling the Blue Heaven when I moved to the UK, but kept the Crystal 2 as it wasn't worth selling. I still use it now, however I have just bought some QED Revelation (it was half price and I was intrigued if it would sound any better given all the positive reviews) and found there to be distinct difference - not better or worse, just different. The QED cable sounds brighter/more detailed in the top end but the Crystal 2 has more body/mid-bass - similar to the experience I had with the Blue Heaven. I know I'm not imagining it either as my girlfriend who I made sit through an extensive A/B test with me agreed she could here a difference, describing the same sonic traits I experienced even though she didn't know what I was changing in the system and had no idea which was which (other than "the first one" and "the second one").
In terms of power cables, last year I bought a Copper Line Alpha cable, again out of interest, and I can't hear any difference when used with my amp or DAC.
Based on my above experiences I've come to the conclusion that once you've satisfied the minimum requirements of using a decent gauge/quality cable (this doesn't mean expensive), cables can't improve the sound, but may alter the character of the sound (or possibly more correctly alter the way the electronics perform/interact with each other). Possibly, the cable materials may contribute to this as well (a complete guess on my part) - I think both the Blue Heaven and Revelation are silver plated, although I don't know why this should fundamentally make any difference if any.
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
Standard interconnects, speaker cables and mains components are good enough. Simple is great.
Thanks
Rick @ Musicraft
Thanks
Rick @ Musicraft
I kind of switched off after about 30 seconds, the whining accent wasn't attractive enough to my ears. I'm not too sure why he's having a go at cables? I used to work on Tottenham Court Rd, and heard a lot of expensive systems on demo during the late 80's and early 90's. Many of them were £5000 systems that honestly sounded no better than well engineered stuff you could have got for a £1000 all in. I don't think it's ever been a secret, as you can open any hi-fi magazines letter's page and usually find someone who has spent thousands, and they are still unhappy with the sound they are getting! Like most hobbies, sooner or later the snobs will tell you one thing is superior to another, you see the same nonsense in any hobby. It's much worse in something like Mountain Biking, where you can easily blow a grand on a set of titanium sprockets!
When it comes to cables, more copper means less electrical resistance, ask any electrician, and he'll tell you the same. And don't even go there with digital cables, as they are only carrying 1's and 0's. It matters not how the information gets into the DAC, it's what happens when it gets there that makes the difference. I always roll around laughing when someone comes on this forum and can't work out why something cheap trashes something radically expensive. It always comes down to simple engineering in the end. If there is a secret in hi-fi, it's not about spending large amounts of money; it's about balancing the components so they all breathe together correctly.
And in support of ajmjcowan, I'm still using those 'older' Audioquest cables (solid cores, and less than £70 back in the late 90's). You're quite right, that there is a level you get to, and beyond that there is no more.
When it comes to cables, more copper means less electrical resistance, ask any electrician, and he'll tell you the same. And don't even go there with digital cables, as they are only carrying 1's and 0's. It matters not how the information gets into the DAC, it's what happens when it gets there that makes the difference. I always roll around laughing when someone comes on this forum and can't work out why something cheap trashes something radically expensive. It always comes down to simple engineering in the end. If there is a secret in hi-fi, it's not about spending large amounts of money; it's about balancing the components so they all breathe together correctly.
And in support of ajmjcowan, I'm still using those 'older' Audioquest cables (solid cores, and less than £70 back in the late 90's). You're quite right, that there is a level you get to, and beyond that there is no more.
Mr Morph:
If there is a secret in hi-fi, it's not about spending large amounts of money; it's about balancing the components so they all breathe together correctly.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but then you mentioned breathing components.
If there is a secret in hi-fi, it's not about spending large amounts of money; it's about balancing the components so they all breathe together correctly.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but then you mentioned breathing components.
NORDOST VALHALLA HIFI INTERCONNECT RCA PHONO LEAD 1m
I also found these on e-bay at £3000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I must say they have a dramatic effect on the system they tried them out on.
EDITED BY MODS: please moderate your language. Three day ban.
mwinter
Well-known member
All you have to do is to use your ears! Cables do make a difference, hwo much diference you wish to make is entirely down to how much difference you wish to make and are willing to pay for it! That said, some of the points made about the stuff talked about by the manufacturers are well made.
[EDITED BY MODS TO REMOVE ATTEMPTS TO BYPASS THE PROFANITY FILTER - PLEASE DON'T TRY THAT AGAIN!]
[EDITED BY MODS TO REMOVE ATTEMPTS TO BYPASS THE PROFANITY FILTER - PLEASE DON'T TRY THAT AGAIN!]
love it!
Couldn't agree moer with what he says.
A good slap around the chops / wake up call I think.
Couldn't agree moer with what he says.
A good slap around the chops / wake up call I think.
Mr Morph said:
How extremely well put. I couldn't agree more.
However, in order to find that balance one will sometimes have to spend large amounts of money
In recording studios the audio goes through stacks of standard quality cable. However a lot of it is balanced line...it always beat me why you rarely see balanced lines on hifi kit. It eliminates noise almost completely.
I think the recording studio is where most of the difference comes from. Poorly recorded material will sound guff no matter what. So interconnect cables make very little difference compared to what goes on there.
Also, I know a guy with a massive Naim setup, hadn't seen him for ages, turns out he had labyrinth tunnel syndrome and lost half his hearing. Gutted for him, but goes to show, your ears probably have more effect than an interconnect.
look after your ears peoples.
I think the recording studio is where most of the difference comes from. Poorly recorded material will sound guff no matter what. So interconnect cables make very little difference compared to what goes on there.
Also, I know a guy with a massive Naim setup, hadn't seen him for ages, turns out he had labyrinth tunnel syndrome and lost half his hearing. Gutted for him, but goes to show, your ears probably have more effect than an interconnect.
look after your ears peoples.
Hi All,
Newbie here so be gentle...
On the subject of magic digital interconnects, I was wondering if the 'believers' still trust the internet to carry out their on-line banking transactions, I mean, all that sensitive information passing down, shock horror, a twisted pair of phone lines. Cables in the air, cables under the pavement, connection boxes everywhere and not an unobtainium-plated connector or carbon fiber-insulated ultra cable in sight. And the computer somehow functioning properly and infallibly transmitting and receiving these gigabytes of data using just an ordinary 'kettle' cable to supply its power. It's simply amazing that the entire internet doesn't just simply expire for want of mere £500.00 interconnects...
Cheers, Carl.
Newbie here so be gentle...
On the subject of magic digital interconnects, I was wondering if the 'believers' still trust the internet to carry out their on-line banking transactions, I mean, all that sensitive information passing down, shock horror, a twisted pair of phone lines. Cables in the air, cables under the pavement, connection boxes everywhere and not an unobtainium-plated connector or carbon fiber-insulated ultra cable in sight. And the computer somehow functioning properly and infallibly transmitting and receiving these gigabytes of data using just an ordinary 'kettle' cable to supply its power. It's simply amazing that the entire internet doesn't just simply expire for want of mere £500.00 interconnects...
Cheers, Carl.
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
As with all threads regarding cables, it is a case of auditioning in one's own system. Those that are closed minded won't hear any difference at all, and maybe even state they prefer the cheaper cable. Those that are open minded are more likely to hear a difference, as long as the cable in question offers better quality. Granted, not all expensive cables make a positive difference, hence the need to try them in the user's system.
TrevC
Well-known member
David@FrankHarvey said:
Those that are open minded might also state they prefer the cheaper cables.
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
TrevC said:Those that are open minded might also state they prefer the cheaper cables.
Exactly - that is a possibility.
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
TrevC said:Those that are open minded might also state they prefer the cheaper cables.
Hi TrevC
Their components/system breathe and they will then also save money.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
Similar threads
TRENDING THREADS
-
-
-
-
How to store records: 9 tips for keeping your vinyl tip-top- Started by What Hi-Fi?
- Replies: 0
-
-
-
Latest posts
-
-
-
-
-
Inquiry about Downloading Instagram Videos via Instagram Downloader
- Latest: Pearl Holland
-
-
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram