Smartphones for Audiophiles

[quadpatch]

I just posted this on another thread but it was a bit off topic so I thought I would add it here for everyone to see. This article by Engadget is really thorough and... ok before i spoil anything go read it here:

http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/02/iphone-vs-rivals-audio-tests/

SPOILER ALERT...

This confirms my suspicion the the iPhone 4 is just amazing for headphones! And before you say anything, I am an android boy, my wife has an iPhone 4 and as good as the audio is I would not want one as a phone - really not for me!

Oh and on a slightly related topic I just found out that the Galaxy Note II is being played around with in Asia by audiophiles and it's found to connect to a DAC straight out of the box! (Without being rooted)... Holly flipping wow!

 

[bigboss]

The upcoming Nokia Lumia 920 has Dolby technology:

http://wmpoweruser.com/nokia-details-dolby-headphone-technology-in-lumia-920-and-lumia-820/

 

[chebby]

I wouldn't dream of using anything more than my PX-100 IIs with my iPhone 4 (or any phone). I hate wearing headphones anyway and - thankfully - there are very few occasions when I need to.

Most important to me is the sound quality via AirPlay (iTunes, BBC iPlayer Radio and TuneIn Radio Pro) which - presumably - bypasses any analogue 'doodads' in the phone and so shouldn't really make any difference when I get an iPhone5.

I doubt that any self-respecting 'Audiophile' would use any MP3 player or smartphone as a source. Luckily I am not an Audiophile. (Or at least I hope not!)

 

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't dream of using anything more than my PX-100 IIs with my iPhone 4 (or any phone). I hate wearing headphones anyway and - thankfully - there are very few occasions when I need to.

Most important to me is the sound quality via AirPlay (iTunes, BBC iPlayer Radio and TuneIn Radio Pro) which - presumably - bypasses any analogue 'doodads' in the phone and so shouldn't really make any difference when I get an iPhone5.

I doubt that any self-respecting 'Audiophile' would use any MP3 player or smartphone as a source. Luckily I am not an Audiophile. (Or at least I hope not!)

I can only assume your post is a joke.

Do you grasp how helpful for sanity, nay essential I'd say, it is to listen to music when you're trekking to and from work every day? Try living in London without a portable music player and headphones. I'd give you a week, tops.

Far, far more weird that you'd use such a device to play your music at home.

Through some project work I did for the Olympics, I recently managed to score a free Samsung Galaxy S3. Its the Iinternational version, so has the 24 bit Wolfson DAC chip. With my Musical Fidelity iems and flac files played through Neutron music player app, its simply a beautiful sounding portable set up. I couldnt wish for any better sound really.

I don't doubt the iPhone 5 sounds good, but there are too many compelling reasons why I'd never go near one. Aside from the lack of native flac support or customisable EQ options, its a CrApple product, and if you buy one, you're accelerating the Earth's doom.

 

[quadpatch]

The upcoming Nokia Lumia 920 has Dolby technology: http://wmpoweruser.com/nokia-details-dolby-headphone-technology-in-lumia-920-and-lumia-820/

I really wish they could have included the 920 in that article but oh well. The 800 tests really badly so I am going to be careful with the 920. Especially interested in the Galaxy Note II now because of the digital out! This is going to be a tough one for me...

I wouldn't dream of using anything more than my PX-100 IIs with my iPhone 4 (or any phone). I hate wearing headphones anyway and - thankfully - there are very few occasions when I need to.

Most important to me is the sound quality via AirPlay (iTunes, BBC iPlayer Radio and TuneIn Radio Pro) which - presumably - bypasses any analogue 'doodads' in the phone and so shouldn't really make any difference when I get an iPhone5.

I doubt that any self-respecting 'Audiophile' would use any MP3 player or smartphone as a source. Luckily I am not an Audiophile. (Or at least I hope not!)

Oh wow, where to start with that comment... You seem to hate the word audiophile, I just mean people who like sound and I'm sure the article did as well. I'm not sure why some people think it's as disgusting a word as 'pedophile'.

'Audio Enthusiasts' do not necessarily shy away from using a smartphone as a source. I'm not saying it's the best sound ever straight out of the headphone socket but the iPhone 4/4s is one of the best phones for sound quality and volume, as well as supporting a bunch of DAC/amps. I guess you haven't heard of the Fostex HP-P1, the CLAS or the VAMP. With the iPhone 4s (or older) you can also bypass the amp stage with a LOD cable, unfortunately that's ruined with the iPhone 5 but oh well. A few Android phones can be rooted to support connection to a few DAC/amps, making them much cheaper than iPhones with their rather overpriced digital unlock options mentioned above and now things like the Galaxy Note II are supporting it out of the box (hopefully in Europe too).

I'm not too sure why someone who hates wearing headphones bothers to comment on a headphone forum but hopefully that answers some questions that others might have in their heads after that.

 

[Anonymous]

I'd agree with the above, but ask this:

- Aside from when in very quiet, still places, is it really worth the extra cost and bulk to bother with headphone amps and external dacs anymore? I've been down that path before, and I've now stripped back to just player source and iems, and really this lightweight rig is perfect for general daily out and aboutness. With real world noise as it is, I really am not convinced you need anything more to get great sounding music going into your ears....

 

[bigboss]

The upcoming Nokia Lumia 920 has Dolby technology: http://wmpoweruser.com/nokia-details-dolby-headphone-technology-in-lumia-920-and-lumia-820/

I really wish they could have included the 920 in that article but oh well. The 800 tests really badly so I am going to be careful with the 920. Especially interested in the Galaxy Note II now because of the digital out! This is going to be a tough one for me...

Not sure what you mean by "I really wish they could have included the 920 in that article", because it IS included! Lumia 800 did not have the technology.

More details here:

http://conversations.nokia.com/2012/10/02/dolby-headphone-is-music-to-our-ears/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NokiaConversations-Posts+%28Nokia+Conversations+-+Posts%29

 

[chebby]

Try living in London without a portable music player and headphones. I'd give you a week, tops.

That's roughly how long I think the half a dozen people a day (at least) I see walking straight into moving traffic - oblivious to anything around them - have got left sometimes. (Heads down, texting away, whilst listening to music rather than listening out for the cars bearing down on them.)

I don't doubt the iPhone 5 sounds good

I hope it will.

... its a CrApple product, and if you buy one, you're accelerating the Earth's doom.

If you say so.

 

[quadpatch]

I'd agree with the above, but ask this:

- Aside from when in very quiet, still places, is it really worth the extra cost and bulk to bother with headphone amps and external dacs anymore? I've been down that path before, and I've now stripped back to just player source and iems, and really this lightweight rig is perfect for general daily out and aboutness. With real world noise as it is, I really am not convinced you need anything more to get great sounding music going into your ears....

Absolutely I agree, the biggest problem when in noisy environments is isolation, headphones with good isolation or active noise cancelling come with their own audio distortions that are not ideal and not often very 'hifi' (although the UE6000 sounds interesting - see Dale's review). I see these portable DAC/amp combos as more transportable than portable, that's where they make the most sense to me.

 

[chebby]

You seem to hate the word audiophile...

The word itself is ok...

 

[quadpatch]

Not sure what you mean by "I really wish they could have included the 920 in that article", because it IS included! Lumia 800 did not have the technology.

More details here: http://conversations.nokia.com/2012/10/02/dolby-headphone-is-music-to-our-ears/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NokiaConversations-Posts+%28Nokia+Conversations+-+Posts%29

Sorry I mean the article that I posted, in that test the Lumia 800 came out with really bad sound so I would be very careful before trusting them with anything good after something so shockingly bad. I'm not convinced that 'Doldy Headphone Technology' is going to mean anything in terms of sound quality but I will keep an open mind. I do love the look of the 920 and it's definitely at my number 2 spot for most likely next purchases.

 

[quadpatch]

I don't doubt the iPhone 5 sounds good

I hope it will.

Did anyone actually read the article I posted? I know it's long but it was very interesting.

 

[bigboss]

Not sure what you mean by "I really wish they could have included the 920 in that article", because it IS included! Lumia 800 did not have the technology.

More details here: http://conversations.nokia.com/2012/10/02/dolby-headphone-is-music-to-our-ears/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NokiaConversations-Posts+%28Nokia+Conversations+-+Posts%29

Sorry I mean the article that I posted, in that test the Lumia 800 came out with really bad sound so I would be very careful before trusting them with anything good after something so shockingly bad. I'm not convinced that 'Doldy Headphone Technology' is going to mean anything in terms of sound quality but I will keep an open mind. I do love the look of the 920 and it's definitely at my number 2 spot for most likely next purchases.

According to the original article I posted, it appears that the Lumia 920 audio enhancements is an EQ setting, probably similar to Beats audio in the HTC. I can see that HTC One X has scored well in the audio front.

One will only know when the phone officially launches....

 

[idc]

......

I doubt that any self-respecting 'Audiophile' would use any MP3 player or smartphone as a source. Luckily I am not an Audiophile. (Or at least I hope not!)

I think you are wrong (for a change ) as an audiophile will look to have the best music set up for the circumstances. So a smartphone with a portable amp and decent cans is about the best you can get for walking or going on the bus.

 

[dalethorn]

I've always thought of myself as an audiophile, so now I will add 'podophile' to that (I just made that up, so I may be the first). I have been severely criticised for suggesting that audiophile sound quality can be appreciated on an iPod or iPhone, or (gasp!) measured and compared with different headphones on same.

So here it is, from an experienced tester: The iPod Touch or iPhone4/4s can drive a Sennheiser HD800 to audiophile listening levels with about 50 percent of my 320k CBR MP3's that I lovingly converted from high quality WAV tracks myself. Furthermore, the frequency response, transients, distortion et al, while "nowhere near" the quality you get with a good desktop DAC and amp, are good enough (with the tracks that I noted) to make a definitive comparison of the HD800 to any other headphone that's at least as efficient. You won't hear the ultimate capability of the HD800 that way, but the differences you identify will hold true in comparisons with good desktop DACs and amps.

Some people may argue that the HD800 will respond much differently, in signature or other ways, with different amps, and differences may be even greater with other headphones. When all is said and done, I haven't found that to be the case. When the gear is working properly the differences will be there, but not so great that they will invalidate what was evaluated on the ipod touch or iphone4/4s alone, given tracks with sufficient volume and overall quality. Dynamics are a big problem with iphones, which is a big part of the reason I won't consider putting lossless tracks on my iphone4s.

 

[dalethorn]

Did anyone actually read the article I posted? I know it's long but it was very interesting.

One comment at the end (user comment, not in the article) said the iPhone5 he tested had as good or better volume and sound than the iPhone4.

 

[chebby]

I think you are wrong (for a change ) as an audiophile will look to have the best music set up for the circumstances. So a smartphone with a portable amp and decent cans is about the best you can get for walking or going on the bus.

I am often wrong.

However, on the the question of whether an 'audiophile' would ever consider a smartphone a credible hi-fi source...

...I have started a thread to get opinions rather than divert this one further.

 

[dalethorn]

I need to add one qualifier/caveat to what I said about listening and testing with the iphone4 or ipod touch. It is possible to construct tests that would not be feasible on i-devices, or where i-devices would completely fail to resolve differences that can be evaluated with real hi-fi gear. I don't have much concern there since I know what a good DAC and amp can do and hopefully no audiophiles would be looking for those advanced features with an i-device. More to that point, I tried an i-device DAC (iStreamer) with my i-devices and gave up on it for a host of reasons.

 

[idc]

I think that the answer to this is down to set up. I cannot see a smartphone as the audiophile choice here, unless it can be used as the digital source only, but even then, it would look daft

I can see it in a smaller set up in a bedroom or desk top, as an alternative to an ipod

and as I said before certainly in a portable system with a little external amp added.

 

[Anonymous]

Sammy Galaxy 2 with 320 kbit/s mp3 and AKG 450s sounds absolutely fine to me.

 

[Jason36]

Interesting article Quadpatch,

I must say I have always found the audio playback quite good straight out of the headphone jack of my iPhone4s playing ALAC files and Spotify. However the sound quality does improve substantially when connected and externally amped by my TTVJ Slim portable amp.

My belief and understanding is that Apple (although knocked by a lot of people) do actually use quite good DAC and amplification parts in the iPhone.

I have used my iPhone amped and unamped with Beyerdyanmic T70p / Grado SR80i / Sennheiser IE6 and Heir Audio A.4i and all sound very good.

My main issue of using Phones as music sources is the fact that I have to keep disconnecting my headphones to answer calls and use the phone as a phone therefore I tend to use my DIY iModded iPod as portable source, unless I want Spotify and then I will revert to my iPhone.

 

[dalethorn]

I hear very little difference between a good conversion of a WAV file to 320 CBR MP3, on a good DAC, but I hear a big difference between the MP3 played to any headphone from the iphone4 and the same MP3 played by Foobar2000 on a computer through a DAC such as Dragonfly to the same headphone.

 

[quadpatch]

However the sound quality does improve substantially when connected and externally amped by my TTVJ Slim portable amp.

I'm curious about the TTVJ stuff, I hear a lot of good things about them.

My main issue of using Phones as music sources is the fact that I have to keep disconnecting my headphones to answer calls and use the phone as a phone

This never bothers me because people generally don't call me . I guess the new neadphones that tend to have mics and buttons on them help a lot here. I just wish the different phones were compatible with each other.

I hear very little difference between a good conversion of a WAV file to 320 CBR MP3, on a good DAC, but I hear a big difference between the MP3 played to any headphone from the iphone4 and the same MP3 played by Foobar2000 on a computer through a DAC such as Dragonfly to the same headphone.

Same here. I guess I never made that clear because I presumed it was obviously like this. I'm certainly not saying that an IPhone 4 is a good alternative to a good amp and/or DAC.

 

[Jason36]

However the sound quality does improve substantially when connected and externally amped by my TTVJ Slim portable amp.

I'm curious about the TTVJ stuff, I hear a lot of good things about them.

My main issue of using Phones as music sources is the fact that I have to keep disconnecting my headphones to answer calls and use the phone as a phone

This never bothers me because people generally don't call me . I guess the new neadphones that tend to have mics and buttons on them help a lot here. I just wish the different phones were compatible with each other

Hi Quadpatch,

Ive not had the TTVJ Slim for that long yet, so will hold off on a full review for a while longer, and till I have also had a chance to test it with all my headphones and IEM's, especially my new Heir Audio A.4i when they arrive from the States.

However initial impressions are that the Slim has a widened soundstage, everything seems more airy, and instrumental separation is taken up a notch. bass seems to be tightened up, sped up a click, and brought forward. It also seems to have super sweet mids. Its also very slim, so sits nicely with either my iPhone 4S or Slim iPod Video (which now has a 120Gb SSD fitted).

I have also just bought a pair of V-Moda M-80 Crossfade Headphones (in white) for £50.00 off a very well know auction site. These were an unwanted present, still boxed and sealed. The buyer wouldnt post so had to be local collection and I think I got them for a steal. If I dont like them I certainly wont lose anything on them

 

[quadpatch]

Thanks for the great info on the TTVJ Slim Jason . Oh wow, congrats on getting the white V-Moda M-80! Great price!! Let us know what you think of it. I love mine, but I am getting the M-100 soon which will suit me more (even if the sound isn't any better) because I still find the M-80's too uncomfortable after a while of use (like any on-ear).

I got the SoundMAGIC HP100 and Fostex T50rp this morning, listening to the Fostex right now and a friend is playing with the SoundMAGIC, had a quick play with both though. Both seem interesting but the SoundMAGIC I can tell is going to be a favourite, super comfy and isolation is amazing so that will probably be my new office choice. I think the V-Moda M-100 will be less isolatiing and more powerful on the low end, but we will see, might be getting them this week. Coming from America so can't be sure... I love headphones!.. can you tell?