idc
Well-known member
That is a great link Jules and it was a convincing demonstartion. There is no reason to believe that swapping the cables will produce different results based on your hearing as Septicman suggests. It would appear that there is an audible difference in different types of cable.
idc:That is a great link Jules and it was a convincing demonstration.ÿThere is no reason to believe that swapping the cables will produce different results based on your hearing as Septicman suggests. It would appear that there is an audible difference in different types of cable.
idc, I presume your tongue is firmly in cheek as ever! I don't think Townshend are going to produce a video that "proves" the opposite, do you? I mean, they do make and sell cables, don't they?ÿ
If you're interested, you'll also find that Monster have produced a few videos which "prove" exactly the same thing.
Caveat spectator!ÿ
idc, I presume your tongue is firmly in cheek as ever! I don't think Townshend are going to produce a video that "proves" the opposite, do you? I mean, they do make and sell cables, don't they?ÿ
If you're interested, you'll also find that Monster have produced a few videos which "prove" exactly the same thing.
Caveat spectator!ÿ
idc:Septicman:
The other thing rarely, if ever, mentioned in the cable debates is the physiology of human hearing. Harbeth have been mentioned on this thread, regarding 79 strand cable. On their website, there is also mention of the characteristics of human hearing. Apparently, if you listen to a piece, stop, swap cables, and then replay the piece you will ALWAYS hear a difference because of the way the brain interprets sound.
If this was the case, then how come the cable sceptics cannot hear a difference between cables and those who do say there is a difference find the difference is consistant between cables?
Because of the testing methodologies used. Apparently the worst thing to do is listen to a piece of music, stop, pull the cables out, put new ones in and then repeat the process. Which of course is exactly the method used by most people who try cables, as they don't have the right equipment to enable proper testing to take place.
The other thing rarely, if ever, mentioned in the cable debates is the physiology of human hearing. Harbeth have been mentioned on this thread, regarding 79 strand cable. On their website, there is also mention of the characteristics of human hearing. Apparently, if you listen to a piece, stop, swap cables, and then replay the piece you will ALWAYS hear a difference because of the way the brain interprets sound.
If this was the case, then how come the cable sceptics cannot hear a difference between cables and those who do say there is a difference find the difference is consistant between cables?
Because of the testing methodologies used. Apparently the worst thing to do is listen to a piece of music, stop, pull the cables out, put new ones in and then repeat the process. Which of course is exactly the method used by most people who try cables, as they don't have the right equipment to enable proper testing to take place.
jules153:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9HrYAyVItY Answer your question?
Not really. I'd rather rely on the opinions of professional speaker designers and the like.
Not really. I'd rather rely on the opinions of professional speaker designers and the like.
8009514
Well-known member
jules153:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9HrYAyVItY Answer your question?
Really not sure what to make of this test. What he describes as large differences don't appear to be substantiated with any figures, and it is not possible to see the scaling set up on the oscilloscope.
Do the differences vary at different frequencies? Not demonstrated so don't know.
Too many unknown variables in this for my liking, so sitting on the fence!
This thread seems to have come on a bit since Garyjos asked about cable for his DM37. Wonder what he'll end up with after all this.
Whole thing has been quite interesting though.
Really not sure what to make of this test. What he describes as large differences don't appear to be substantiated with any figures, and it is not possible to see the scaling set up on the oscilloscope.
Do the differences vary at different frequencies? Not demonstrated so don't know.
Too many unknown variables in this for my liking, so sitting on the fence!
This thread seems to have come on a bit since Garyjos asked about cable for his DM37. Wonder what he'll end up with after all this.
Whole thing has been quite interesting though.
idc
Well-known member
Sorry Septicman and Tarquinh, I am genuinely at a bit of a loss here. If we cannot swap between cables or use a very straight forward experiment to show that there are audible differences between cables, then what can we do? You both appear to be manovering yourselves into the position where your stance is, that there is no acceptable means of showing cables can sound different, so therefore they do not sound different.
A straightforward experiment would be a simple speaker switcher box, an amp, cd player, pair of speakers and some different cables.
two sets of cable connected to the switch and to the speakers and a single feed to the switch box. Switching would be quicker than swapping wires , 1 second so the hearing thing doesnt really matter... neither would the cable to the switch box as all you are proving is a difference.. not quality. If a test like this proves that there is a clear audiable difference then we should buy big sexy cables if it proves that the difference is not real then it saves us trip to the hi fi shop.
I might set it up sometime.... but will have to watch out for the cable police knocking on my door
two sets of cable connected to the switch and to the speakers and a single feed to the switch box. Switching would be quicker than swapping wires , 1 second so the hearing thing doesnt really matter... neither would the cable to the switch box as all you are proving is a difference.. not quality. If a test like this proves that there is a clear audiable difference then we should buy big sexy cables if it proves that the difference is not real then it saves us trip to the hi fi shop.
I might set it up sometime.... but will have to watch out for the cable police knocking on my door
idc:Sorry Septicman and Tarquinh, I am genuinely at a bit of a loss here. If we cannot swap between cables or use a very straight forward experiment to show that there are audible differences between cables, then what can we do? You both appear to be manovering yourselves into the position where your stance is, that there is no acceptable means of showing cables can sound different, so therefore they do not sound different.
That's not what is being said at all. Of course you need to swap from cable to cable to try and hear any difference. It is the methodology that needs formalising so that apples for apples are being compared, and takes out any variables.
I am not a scientist, so the You Tube experiment for me was a bit meaningless. But variables might include the fact that one cable ran straight whilst the other was coiled into a bundle. The testing was done across one frequency, not a variety. We have no idea whether the cables were terminated by the same banana plugs, soldered or unsoldered etc. etc. We don't know what scale the test was done on. We do know that some cables have different electrical characteristics, so they may show as munute variations on test kit, but are completely inaudible etc. etc. Lastly, the oscilloscope was connected to a speaker. Speaker drivers have wire coils of anything from 30-100ft+ in them, both woofer and tweeter, does that make a difference to the sound? Were the competing wires 100% copper or part silver? Did the guy doing the test notice a difference in the tone of the test signal?
That's not what is being said at all. Of course you need to swap from cable to cable to try and hear any difference. It is the methodology that needs formalising so that apples for apples are being compared, and takes out any variables.
I am not a scientist, so the You Tube experiment for me was a bit meaningless. But variables might include the fact that one cable ran straight whilst the other was coiled into a bundle. The testing was done across one frequency, not a variety. We have no idea whether the cables were terminated by the same banana plugs, soldered or unsoldered etc. etc. We don't know what scale the test was done on. We do know that some cables have different electrical characteristics, so they may show as munute variations on test kit, but are completely inaudible etc. etc. Lastly, the oscilloscope was connected to a speaker. Speaker drivers have wire coils of anything from 30-100ft+ in them, both woofer and tweeter, does that make a difference to the sound? Were the competing wires 100% copper or part silver? Did the guy doing the test notice a difference in the tone of the test signal?
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