Set up for playing from computer via DAC

[bobsmith833]

I've been looking at the possibility of getting a DAC to enable me to play music from my Windows 8 PC through my Yamaha AS 500 amp.

I'm on a pretty tight budget though, so looking to go with probably the HRT microstreamer or the Audioquest Dragonfly since they both seem to get really excellent reviews.

The issue I need to resolve is how to wire that from the computer to the amp. The total distance is probably something like 5-6 metres. Can anybody recommend good cables that will complement that set up for a not exorbitant budget? I'll presumably need some sort of USB extender and a 3.5mm to phono connector for the DAC to amp. Should I go long with the USB cable and much shorter with the 3.5 to phono?

Thanks!

 

[BigH]

You should be able to do this without an external DAC, your computer will have a DAC on the sound card. As for cables I don't think you need to spend that much, got mine off Amazon for about £5 never had any problems. This may help: http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/2009/03/25/how-to-connect-your-pc-to-your-hi-fi/

If your computer soundcard is not very good you can either upgrade the SC, Asus do a good range or buy an external DAC, the
Epiphany Acoustics E-DAC 24 bit miniature USB DAC at £99 is good for a budget.

Yes I would go longer digital cable and shorter cable from dac to amp.

 

[cheeseboy]

only thing of note is to go careful when using usb extenders as 5m is hitting the limit of the usb 2.0 standard.

 

[unsleepable]

I think that an Airport Express would also work fantastic for what you need. And a second-hand AE can be found cheap—although it's not an expensive piece of equipment to start with. You can connect it to your network with an Ethernet cable, or through wifi, so it will not depend on where the computer is. And sound quality is limited to 44.1KHz 16-bit, but that's CD-quality.

Now, there have been three models: 802.11g, first-generation 802.11n (wall-plugged), and second-generation 802.11n (the current model). They all have their own internal DAC chips, which respectively are Burr-Brown PCM2705, Cirrus Logic CS4344, and Asahi Kasei AKM4430. The CS4344 and the AKM4430 are regarded to be similar in terms of audio quality, but better than the PCM2705 present in the first-generation AE.

The analog audio output of the Airport Express also doubles as an optical one, where you can plug a Mini-TOSLINK digital connector—this plug is a bit longer than the analog 3.5mm jack, so it reaches where the analog connector does not. Thanks to this digital output, you can also connect an external DAC to an Airport Express.

There is just a couple of things to take into account. On the one hand, you'll probably have to spend more than £200 in an external DAC to notice a real sound-quality improvement over the internal DAC in the AE. On the other, according to some reviews and user comments, jitter is really bad in the second-generation 802.11n model—model A1392, the latest model at the present. This affects both the digital and analog outputs of this model.

Because of this, I think the best model for audio is the first-generation 802.11n model—model A1264, which is the one I have. I have used my Airport Express for a long time without a DAC, and currently with an Arcam irDac, and I'm very happy with it. The only issue I have is with Rogue Amoeba's Airfoil, with which audio is interrumpted constantly when the irDac is plugged in, up to the point of making this program unusable. So I stopped using it and when I want to play music from the computer I just select the Airport Express as the output sound device and all is well.

 

[davedotco]

like you I have the early dual band AEX, I find it works pretty much faultlessly. I use a Fiio D3 dac, primarily for connectivity reasons and until recently used Airfoil without issue.

A recent upgrade allows me to use Airplay on all applications which I do. Not a big deal but I think there is a small but definite difference in the SQ compared to Airfoil. Not as yet, entirely sure if the difference is positive or not, haven't really had time to investgate yet.

 

[unsleepable]

The reason I liked Airfoil is that it would allow me to, for example, play music through my main system, while still hearing all the ding-dongs of my computer through the desktop speakers. It was a very small convenience, but still…

Next week I will upgrade my Arcam irDac to a Naim DAC-V1, and I will test then whether the issue still happens with the new DAC.

By the way, Airfoil has a built-in equalizator. Could that be the source of the difference you may be hearing? If Airfoil works again once I replace my DAC, I will try and see if I hear differences in my own set-up.

 

[davedotco]

I don't do anything too serious on my laptop so have all the alerts turned off.

All the equalisers are switched off, there is definitely a difference, but whether positive or negative or even meaningfull, I dont really know.

I'll have to try some comparisons but I really don't have time at the moment.

As a point of 'best practice', I prefer a wired system. Ideally with an iPad as a remote. What comparisons I have made have not been conclusive, though I feel more comfortable with a wired system. Hi-fi, huh........... :doh:

 

[unsleepable]

I completely agree with you regarding a wired system. While a typical wifi has way more than enough bandwidth for the CD-quality audio transmitted by AirPlay—and could still transmit audio of much higher quality—, wireless networks are more susceptible of losing frames in transit due to interferences.

Having said that, AirPlay implements packet retransmission, which is great. Because of this, I think that only in terms of audio quality, a wireless AirPort Express works the same as a wired one. I've got mine wired though, because where I used to live before I had issues with the AE being disconnected of the network from time to time, so I got used to having it wired for a matter of convenience. And my computer also connects to the network with an Ethernet cable.

I'm not entirely sure whether frames are retransmitted if they are lost when in transit through a digital audio cable… :O One day I need to check this.

 

[lilneige]

I think a lot of the time the problem with airplay is because of the stability of WIFI connection. Thus, I stayed wired too.

 

[bobsmith833]

Thanks everyone. I'll have a look at the AE - it could just solve all my problems. Particularly as my router is close to the hi-fi end of things, and I'm already trailing an ethernet cable from that to the PC.

 

[bobsmith833]

So, just to clarify, the consensus here is that there wouldn't be a huge difference in sound quality between the DragonFly, the Epiphany Acoustics E-DAC 24 and the CS4344 that's inside the second generation AirPort Express? All will deliver something like CD quailty to my amp?

 

[davedotco]

So, just to clarify, the consensus here is that there wouldn't be a huge difference in sound quality between the DragonFly, the Epiphany Acoustics E-DAC 24 and the CS4344 that's inside the second generation AirPort Express? All will deliver something like CD quailty to my amp?

Not exactly.

In general terms, good modern dac chips, properly implemented will sound very similar indeed.

When genuine differences do occur (between different products) they will be a result of specific choices made by the designer in terms of filter implementation, analogue stages etc. In other words, deliberate 'voicing'.

 

[unsleepable]

I'm not entirely sure whether frames are retransmitted if they are lost when in transit through a digital audio cable… :O One day I need to check this.

I felt curious and I ended up checking this.

It seems that neither audio transmission through USB, nor S/PDIF, implement packet retransmission—at most, they can detect that there is a missing packet, or that a packet that has been received is corrupted and must be discarded.

The probability of losing a packet is small anyways, as is also its effect. But still, AirPlay seems so far to be the winner here… Who would have figured?