Seeking a subwoofer to complete my home cinema system

[nugget2014]

Just put together my first home cinema system and looking for a sub to complete it and need some help and a push in a direction in which i should go

my home cinema consists of:

Fronts: Dali Zensor 3 on Soundstyle Z2 stands

Centre: Dali Vokal

Surrounds:None

A/V: Sony STR-DN1040

Blu ray: Sony BDPS-5200

TV: Sony KDL46W905

looking for the oomph for movies not bothered about sub for music at all.

don't have the biggest amount of room in my flat and i have downstairs neighbour below my living room so cant have volume loud often

was looking between the bk xxls400 and bk monolith but now i dont know what is best with the amount of room i have and my conditions.

i will post photo of my living room so you can see exactly how much space i'm working with (my sofa is at back of room against wall so behind me is not an option)

don't want to spend more than £500 and that is absolute max i will go

Sub's i am thinking of:

bk monolith

bk xxls400

svs pb-1000 (although i dont know how easy this is to obtain in the UK)

cambridge audio AERO 9 (demo'd this in RS a while ago, from what i remember a decent sub and sounded exactly the same as the dali e-12f)

so, which sub to look more into?

 

[bigboss]

svs pb-1000 (although i dont know how easy this is to obtain in the UK)

http://www.hifix.co.uk/sub-woofers/svs/pb1000.html

 

[nugget2014]

svs pb-1000 (although i dont know how easy this is to obtain in the UK)

http://www.hifix.co.uk/sub-woofers/svs/pb1000.html

looked at the pb-1000 and remembered it only has a 10" woofer where the bk subs i mentioned have 12" and are same price. deciding on a sub is so hard! harder than any other part of my system

 

[ClassAct]

I would have the sub placed more towards the front of the room and the setup anyway as you could experience problems with integratio if it's too close to the rear. From the ones you've listed the Cambridge Audio Aero 9 is ideal. You've auditioned that sub and found you got along with it. Plus being similar to Dali E12f it will be better integrated with the rest of the Dali speakers.

I'm not at all to familiar with the other subs mentioned. I'd also ensure they are either forward or sideways firing and not downwards. Have you considered a PV1? They can be had for around £350-400 now that the PV1D is out.

 

[nugget2014]

I would have the sub placed more towards the front of the room and the setup anyway as you could experience problems with integratio if it's too close to the rear. From the ones you've listed the Cambridge Audio Aero 9 is ideal. You've auditioned that sub and found you got along with it. Plus being similar to Dali E12f it will be better integrated with the rest of the Dali speakers.

I'm not at all to familiar with the other subs mentioned. I'd also ensure they are either forward or sideways firing and not downwards. Have you considered a PV1? They can be had for around £350-400 now that the PV1D is out.

where on earth could i find a B&W pv1 for £350-400? on superfi it's listed at £750! it seems an ideal sub, hardly any resonance (does that mean less vibrations through the floor?) looks good, small so will fit in to my system easily and goes quite low (although only goes upto 110hz i think i read) so not that good for music if i ever wanted to listen to music

 

[nugget2014]

looked around and think i'll cross off the pb-1000 from my list narrowin my choices down to:

cambridge audio aero 9

bk monolith

bk xxls400

b&w PV1 (if i can find one for around £400)

 

[ClassAct]

Tried to edit my post but says I've triggered the p filtwr, doesn't help that I'm typing on my phone either. :wall:

 

[ellisdj]

Pv1 is a music.sub predominantly - fast not that deep.

Monolith best movie sub out of the few short listed and is.very popular because goes.very deep

Xxls400 in.between the 2 but more aimed music. Is a good sub as well but doesnt go that.deep either.

After owning bk now owning.SVS - they make excellent subs as well.

Dont worry about matching bass is just pressure - good integration comes from placement and setup

 

[Glacialpath]

IMO Rel is the only place to look for Subwoofers. It's their soul perpouse in life to build Subwoofers and they are worth every peny.

http://rel.net/products/

Try that fpr size.

 

[nugget2014]

My living room, dont have much space:

 

[Glacialpath]

Nice little set up. Bit conused why you don't want any sattelite speakers to give you the full surround sound. Some of your games should have 5.1. As you have your fronts the same it's not so importand what the surrounds are so you could get away with some small sattelites. Rel do some very small subs but they will give out that oomph you want no problem.

I can see you don't have much space but your system would sound better if you could move it away from the corner. I can see you are keeping your setup away from the door though.

 

[nugget2014]

Nice little set up. Bit conused why you don't want any sattelite speakers to give you the full surround sound. Some of your games should have 5.1. As you have your fronts the same it's not so importand what the surrounds are so you could get away with some small sattelites. Rel do some very small subs but they will give out that oomph you want no problem.

I can see you don't have much space but your system would sound better if you could move it away from the corner. I can see you are keeping your setup away from the door though.

was originally going to get some surround speakers but though not the best option as i thought it wouldnt be as effective since i am sat against rear wall. plus i cant afford it right now, want some cheap satellites but cant find any looked at richer sounds dont want to spend more than £50 really

then got to assemble some speaker brackets and hang them up on wall, i wish i could buy some semi cheap wireless surrounds!

 

[nugget2014]

rel doesnt appeal to me from what subs i've seen, still between the bk and the cambridge audio subs i think

 

[ellisdj]

Get the BK then - you wont be dissapointed.

Then learn how to properly set a sub up - then get some good bass - voiloi

 

[Glacialpath]

rel doesnt appeal to me from what subs i've seen, still between the bk and the cambridge audio subs i think

Fair play if Rel don't appeal to you. I might be right in saying a lot of people on hear would agree Rel make the best subwoofers in the world. I was in a Seven Oaks once and a guy came in looking to buy another subwoofer as he couldn't get the Rel he had to work very well. When I heard he had a Rel I persuaded him not to buy a new one and even the guy from Seven Oaks agreed with me utting himself out of a sale.

There are many awesome subwoofers out there don't get me wrong. I've heard many but none worked as well as the old Rel Q50 I have. I would seriously recommend trying a Rell against othe Subs before you buy.

Up to you oof course. If you got your heart set on one or 2 then go with those.

Oh if you have to sit on the back wall to view your TV then having a pair of sattelites on each wall either sside of you pointing right at your ears you will still get a surround sound effect. This was how my first ever surround sound system had to be set up. I was also on one side of the room yet I still got full surround sounds. Go on ebay or Gumtree. The second hand market is very good and you can get more for your money if you know what to look for. Most of my kit is second hand. You could always point one of us towards something you are interested in for an opinion.

Good luck with what ever you decide.

 

[chrisr1718]

If you want to go for something cheap and cheerful but still pretty decent, (this maybe a bit controversial) to see if you need a sub, you could go for a Paradigm sub, they're nearly always going on ebay and are reasonably priced. The PDR-10 has a forward facing speaker and is rear ported so less intusive for the neigbours below. I had one for a few years, could feel it rumble through the sofa! Cheap surrounds, try Jamo A102, sound a lot bigger than they look, or A500/510 if you want slim ones. These you can normally get for around £50 a pair on ebay.

 

[jonathanRD]

Hi Nugget, nice to see you finally got your HC set up and your new flat.

Don't bother with cheap surrounds, in my opinion you are wasting your money. You are better off saving up for surrounds that match your fronts.

Where are you planning to put your sub? Subs need to find their best position in a room and you don't have much room anyway, let alone finding the 'sub sweet spot'. I think a Monolith will be too big unles it doubles as a coffee table in the middle of the room

I also think that the XXLS400 might be a liitle large for the space too, it all depends on where you plan to site it.

How is the floor re soundproofing? Can your downstairs neighbours hear you at the moment.

It would be a shame to spend good money on a sub that you cannot enjoy fully for fear of upsetting your neighbours. Maybe rather than wasting money on cheap surrounds, can you pick up a relatively cheap 2nd hand sub to try out first. You could experiment with placement and test the water with the neighbours.

 

[ellisdj]

BK Built the Q series of Rel Subs for them, I am pretty sure - they def built subs for them. REL then sold out to another company.

I have had a Q50 (no where near enough power) and a Q150E (way too small no deep bass) - the XLS400 is miles better than both but as stated above you are limited on space.

A sealed sub is designed for coner placement and you have your system squeezed in very tight into that corner - I assume for a reason?

You might be better off with a monolith if your going to put it to the right of your system away from a corner - However living in a flat you will get a lot of complaints I dare say from the deep bass.

Sub placement is crucial - more important than anything else infact.

You actually might be better off with a seeing if you can get a PV1 - its small will fit into the corner and the deep rumbling bass it doesnt do wont upset the neighbours. 40 - 50hz is still quite deep and punchy region

 

[Glacialpath]

Don't bother with cheap surrounds, in my opinion you are wasting your money. You are better off saving up for surrounds that match your fronts.

My Fronts are Mordaunt Short Anavnt series but my 4 sattelites are from an old JVC all in one DVD home cinema system. If the OP even decides to go down the surround sound route as he said he's not bothered. As long as the subwoofer is set up correctly a set of small cheap surrounds will do fine.

Sure having surrounds to match your fronts will give you the same kind of definition all round but I just watched the first 3 Star Wars DVDs and they sounded awesome all round.

 

[gareth Ottywill]

I may be late to the party here.... And what im about to say might not be that popular. Bk subwoofers aren't all there craked up to be. The Monlith is hugh but when i had one didn't sound all that great to my ears. And thats the important thing here you really need to be able to do a home trial! What works for some one else might not work for you!

Nick at home sound is good with home trails. He will allow you try and see what you think, If you dont like it no questions asked he will take it back at no extra cost. He has a good selection of second hand stock that he might be able to tempt you with all at good prices.

I really do think you need to put that SVS back on you your list as its smaller than the monolith and according to users that have heard both isnt that fare behind the monolith for shear output and depth and is probale a little more tuneful.

Really you need to able to hear all the tones of a sub so one set up with room correction sofware PBK or similar will sound better and more tuneful than the biggest thing you can buy. You maybe missing the last 40hz for example from the monolith in your room (because the room is sucking the life out of the bass) so you may as well go with sub that only goes to 40hz if thats the case. If that makes any sense at all.

As for Rel they are good subs but there are better (as with eveything in life) but the older versions are considered the best.

A well know acoution site has a really nice Strata 5 goes to 16hz (take that with a pinch of salt) but never the less is really nice and looks to be in good condition and is also within budget and the seller is throwing a lead with it!! QED i think.

For what its worth my top picks would be for this kind of money would be

SVS PB1000

Paradigm DSP 3200 with PBK

and some sort of baby velodyne with room correction

But you really need arrange away to listen to them in your own space!!! or book a demo somewhere. Hope tha makes sense im not the best speller in the world so i appoligise in advance.

Room correction on the subwoofer not really needed if your amp EQ's the subwoofer unlike mine.

 

[nugget2014]

I guess since I'm living in a flat maybe the monolith is not needed then. I just want deeper bass than my current zensor 3s and I would like more of a punch and oomph for explosions but not shake the whole flat building. Maybe even if it went down to 25-30hz that would be fine. Currently on a decent volume during the hospital explosion scene on the dark knight my zensor 3s shake the room a little bit.

neighbour would most likely feel or hear the bass but i would have on

low volume until he goes out to work or elsewhere (once dog starts barking I know he is out

since sheer power then isn't necessary do you think Cambridge audio aero 9 is not the best for

my situation? Having a 10" downported passive radiator might shake the floor I don't know how they work.

think monolith no longer an option. I think id still like a ported design even if isn't a beast of a sub.

The pb1000 is still bit of a beast so think id pass that sub too. And it's still £450.

any subs that go down to 25hz have a front placed port and are £400 and under? Something like a ported bk xls200..

Was also thinking of not having a sub altogether and instead putting the money towards surrounds (putting zensor 3s to the back and buying zensor 5s for the front..

the search continues!

 

[nugget2014]

Does having a port make that much difference for movies? If not maybe xls200 xxls400 or aero 9 will be on the shortlist. If I were to put the aero 9 on a granite slab or chopping board that would hopefully reduce vibrations a bit. Although the free accessories with a bk sub is tempting saving money on a sub lead. Might go demo the aero 9 sub again soon with the dark knight hospital scene and pacific rim see if it amazes me

 

[gareth Ottywill]

Personally i prefer sealed subwoofers as there more tuneful. But ported ones go deeper for any given size....SVS do a sealed one as well the sb1000 which is very nice subwoofer and goes down to you stated 25-30hz !!! I would take this over the BK any day due to having a better amp (it has a dsp that controls the woofer and stops it from damaging its self)

I would leave the leave the aero 9 as its not the best! I know its not what you want to hear though.

But i alway say if your humming and harring leave it for a while and think about it. These pages can cofuse sometimes with everybody saying this and that but i think the subwoffer is the better way to go.... I could live with the surounds as in the grand scheme of thinks dont as much as the front ones.

A subwoofer would to the excitment.

another optio that no one has menationed!

Have you thought about a monitor audio subwoofer the radius 380 looks to be nice and round the same price as the BK subwoofer. Its small but has a passive raditor (it achives the same thing as port but without chuffing and can sound more controlled) RS should sell them so give them listen if you can.

but that may be adding to the confussion..... DONT BE SCARED TO ASK FOR 50 QUID OFF nevr pay the price on the ticket trust me you will get it or somthing to sweaten the deal!!!!... i got my sub and dali fazons for anamazing price you just have to ask. The indepents will do there best to help you but obvversly dont take the pee as they do offer really good service unlike currys or somthing.

but if your set on the BK then thats the one!!!

best

Gareth

 

[bigboss]

SVS PB1000 carries a seriously good reputation. Bigger the sub is, better it will perform. Bigger doesn't have to be louder.

 

[nugget2014]

Hmm, now re considering the pb1000 as read it's like a monolith but in a smaller footprint which is good for my small room goes low has decent size driver of 10". One reason I was leaning towards the bk because of the super spikes which might give more isolation from the floor. Still maybe the pb1000 on a granite slab might still be decently isolated. So I could potentially damage a sub by playing it high volume without a low pass filter or something? But then surely it wouldn't go as low, as some go down to 40Hz with the filter