Rule of thumb?

[davedotco]

Though I was involved in hi-fi earlier, as a 'drone', I was a partner, salesman and owner of a hi-fi store from the late 70's up to about 2000, though not always full time or continuous.

I accept that we were a certain 'type' of dealer, heavily involved in the 'british' style of product and the basic philosophy of selling by demonstration. Obviously we had lots of contact with similar dealers, there must have been a dozen or so in the london area at that time, and I am struggling to recall any instance of a customer genuinly badly served by one of these dealers.

Sure some dealers and customers would 'fall out' but, in the main, this was just the interaction of contrasting personalities, I am pretty sure that any sharp dealing within this 'community' would have become common knowledge pretty quickly.

This is very much the 'community' that I learned my trade and did my business in, the biggest issue I see at this time is that serious, "trustworthy" dealers have largely abandoned the budget end of the market to the 'box shifters'.

 

[Anderson]

If you're happy to spend silly money by proportion between and amp and speakers then be my guest but if you're making recommendations to newbies please keep it real. You spend your money on your speakers, end of.

I said that's how I did it, and that I'm happy with the result. I didn't recommend newbies to do it my way. Actually, I advised not to spend too much on a digital source or on cables, but basically split the money between amp and speakers. If you say money for the amp is wasted, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Now go and blow-up some more robots...

Happy Eastern!

On second thought, we might agree on the amplifier costing far less, if the money is used where it's needed (a beefy PSU, and not a fancy facia + the marketing department). The guy in the recent 'Biamping Thread', who plans to use some Behringer powerhouses to drive his more upmarket speakers (forgot the details): I'm genuinely interested in his findings. That could indeed result in a great system.

The thing is: these Behringers are not for sale in your average high-street hifi-shop. So if a 'newbie' comes in, having £1000 to spend on a system, he shouldn't (IMO) spend £750 on the speakers, leaving just £250 for source + amp + wires, cos he'll end up with an amp that produces 45W/8 Ohm and 55 W/4 Ohm. And he'll come here to complain how disappointed he is with his boomy LS-50s.

So: less for the amp? Yes, maybe. If you know what to get. Taking this a little further, you buy active speakers.

Sorry if my post seem locked and loaded on you. My points were very general. One thing I'd like to clarify, if you've already got your system and are happy with the speakers then by all means drop some serious cash (if you have it) on your hearts desire. But for first time buyers I agree money should be weighted towards the speakers.

Happy Easter.

 

[lindsayt]

I was badly served by my London based dealer in 1983. He proudly proclaimed that I had bought "The best turntable in the World!" from him. I hadn't. If he had stocked the right sort of competition, I would have been able to hear that for myself.

And anyone buying a top of the range system from him, would have been right royally ripped off in terms of the overall sound quality for the money, compared to what they could have bought elsewhere.

 

[davedotco]

I was badly served by my London based dealer in 1983. He proudly proclaimed that I had bought "The best turntable in the World!" from him. I hadn't. If he had stocked the right sort of competition, I would have been able to hear that for myself.

And anyone buying a top of the range system from him, would have been right royally ripped off in terms of the overall sound quality for the money, compared to what they could have bought elsewhere.

I am left to wonder why you parted with your money in this instance, if the setup was that far off your requirements, why go down this route?

I am also intriged by your assertion that he was 'ripping off' his customers, given your tendancy to challenge anyone who makes such blanket assertions without documented proof, I assume you have done a survey of his customers.

 

[EvPa]

I was badly served by my London based dealer in 1983. He proudly proclaimed that I had bought "The best turntable in the World!" from him. I hadn't. If he had stocked the right sort of competition, I would have been able to hear that for myself.

I am left to wonder why you parted with your money in this instance, if the setup was that far off your requirements, why go down this route?

Form my understanding, lindsayt had not yet heard those "better" turntables and found out after the fact (one can assume that the sound produced by the dealer-provided turntable was nice and that lindsayt liked it at first).

 

[lindsayt]

I was a teenager. This was the pre-internet days. Hi-fi magazines of the time backed up the dealers claim. I didn't know any better. I had no way of knowing any better at the time.

When it comes down to it, anyone thinking that an LP12 Ittok Asak, Naim 32.5 Nap250, Isobariks was the single best system you could buy for the money in 1983 is either delusional or ignorant of what was really available at the time.

If you want further evidence, just look at all the hi-fi forum threads over the years where people have had such a system, then tried something different and prefered the alternatives. You could also come to my house and listen to my LP12 Ittok Lingo Troika Isobariks against a few alternatives. Or you could get your own LP12 Naim Brik system and then try a few pre-1984 alternatives to decide if "right royal rip off" is approriate or not.

Edit: yes and an LP12 Naim Brik system is OK sounding. Better sounding than the cheaper alternatives stocked by that dealer. It just wasn't World Class. And that's what it should have been for the price and the claims made by the dealer.

 

[james_LR90]

I wouldn't get too caught up on splitting your budget any particular way. I would try a few combinations at different prices and just pick the one which sounds best to you. With hi-fi being so subjective I think it is hard for there to be much in the way of rule of thumb.

 

[antskip]

Nothing beats finding a really good Hi-Fi shop! One with a great team of brilliant and helpful hi-fi specialists who will listen to you and advise you. Where they can hear your needs, help you to ask the right questions, and assess your budget - both immediate and in time. Then they will steer you along, to eventually select a system after listening to a an array of options. Choosing components based on hearsay or rule of thumb from home is just so risky - a last resort.