Router to streamer: long premium ethernet cable vs long cheap ethernet + Switch ?

Roel

Active member
Dec 6, 2020
2
1
25
Visit site
At the risk of beginning a discussion between believers and non-believers on whether to pamper bits and bytes or not. Having heard a difference between different digital cables on an ok system myself and wishing the best structural set-up also for the future, I am confronted with a dilemma.

I used to have my router very close to my audio system. The router was connected by a 1 meter Audioquest (Cinnamon I think) Ethernet cable to my streamer.

I moved recently to a place where I will probably stay for many years. The router (download speed > 100 Mbps) is nowadays + 10 meters away from the streamer. To give an idea, my current partial set-up is a Bluesound Node 2 streamer used as a DAC for streaming (unfortunately through wi-fi atm), connected by a Transparant Musiclink Interconnect to a NAD C372 ampli. Van den Hul Hybrid speaker cables then lead to a pair of ProAc Studio 125. Happy with the components, but they might be upgraded over the following years.

I do not want to go through wi-fi for streaming. I will pull an ethernet cable leaving from the router direction streamer through an existing PVC cable conduit (currently hosting an unused old TV cable) over the entire 11 meters. I don’t want to replace this cable too often for upgrading purposes.

I guess I can choose between:
  • Cheap ethernet cable CAT-6/7/8 over 11 meters connecting router and streamer. If that went without saying for me, I wouldn’t be writing this post.
  • More expensive ethernet cable over 11 meters connecting router and streamer, e.g. AudioQuest Forest or Cinnamon (I leave out the hyper expensive stuff like the AQ Diamond or Nordost stuff, that’s way beyond my budget, especially for + 10 meters). Maybe good to know: I’m not sure the RJ45 connectors can be pulled through the cable conduit (several 90° curbs), I may have to use a long ethernet cable fixing the RJ45 connectors afterwards myself.
  • Cheap or half cheap ethernet cable over 11 meters connecting the router to a (cheap ? quality ?) switch, which will then be connected to my streaming device with the short Cinnamon ethernet cable I have already.
Knowing nothing about how ones and zeros work, I don’t have a clue what I should prefer. Looking at the distance I need to bridge with ethernet cable, is there a constellation out of the above that I should prefer ? Can a switch (no other connection needed than streamer) have a positive impact on sound quality or is that rather the opposite ? Any people able to talk out of experience here ? Thanks for your input.
 
My modem/router from the ISP is in the hall, connected to the BT master socket.

I run a short <1m cable to a Netgear GS105 switch, recommended by Linn. Then a 10m Ethernet to the streamer in the living room.

I use Duronic Cat 6a which is a bit stiffer to handle than some Cat5 I used to use. The cables and switch totalled less than £40.

Duronic sell direct via eBay. E.g. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203194994502

You may not need a separate switch, but isolating the audio from other sources of noise seems like a worthwhile precaution.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: michael hoy

daveh75

Well-known member
Cat 6 is more than adequate in a domestic setup.

It's guaranteed for 1GbE upto 100m (defined as 90m of structured cabling + 10m for patch cables) but will handle upto 10GbE upto about 50m

Going beyond Cat 6 will present its own problems for an amateur, particularly if your pulling and terminating it yourself, eg thickness, flexibility and grounding...

So any Cat 6 cable that meets the TIA/EIA-568 spec is all you need

Boutique ethernet cables are snake oil of the highest order! Same goes for switches
 
Last edited:
As for switches, I use and recommend the Netgear Prosafe GS or the TP-Link TL-SG "metal clad" style unmanaged Gigabit switches.

They're affordable, do the job and are pretty much bomb proof...
I’m sure you’re right there. However these audiophile switches intrigue me, though not enough to part with any money! I also know some like to replace the standard ‘wall wart’ power supplies with something they believe is less noisy. Perhaps with a £100k system, but that’s not mine!
 

rel

Active member
Dec 6, 2020
1
1
25
Visit site
I've used Cat-6 ethernet from home depot for the last 15 years. When we built the house I had wire strung everywhere I thought we or a future buyer might want it. Almost every run is at least 100 Feet long. It all goes up into the attic and then down a cable drop to the basement where they terminate to a 24 port connection block. I use patch cords (1') to a 24 port switch connected to a router next to the switch. Each port on the switch goes to an individual drop.

All our home theater stuff is about another 100 feet away. We have never had a problem with reception or video/audio quality since we set it up originally.

My suggestion is to go to Home Depot, check for the spec on the wire as true Cat-6, and buy that. I bought it in 1,000 & 500 foot rolls.
 
  • Like
Reactions: michael hoy
Well, it’s not really, partly because I think these things are very much location dependent, and partly because I wasn’t debating that bits are bits nor that the route they take to our house is long winded. I was referring to the noise within the home, which Paul takes over five minutes to get to.

That’s where the isolation might make a difference. Perhaps a bit like the difference you believe your modified Oppo power supply makes?
 

michael hoy

Well-known member
Well, it’s not really, partly because I think these things are very much location dependent, and partly because I wasn’t debating that bits are bits nor that the route they take to our house is long winded. I was referring to the noise within the home, which Paul takes over five minutes to get to.

That’s where the isolation might make a difference. Perhaps a bit like the difference you believe your modified Oppo power supply makes?
I'm not saying i agree or disagree with what Paul has to say, It was just another persons view of a viewer asking the question.
I'm all for trying to get the best out of a system and am willing to try different things.
 

daveh75

Well-known member
Well, it’s not really, partly because I think these things are very much location dependent, and partly because I wasn’t debating that bits are bits nor that the route they take to our house is long winded. I was referring to the noise within the home, which Paul takes over five minutes to get to.

Well aside from the fact his knowledge of routing is severely lacking/stuck in the '90s, the notion he seemingly has that packets don't matter as they traverse internet, but suddenly require audophile switches the minute they enter your house is pure nonsense!

That’s where the isolation might make a difference. Perhaps a bit like the difference you believe your modified Oppo power supply makes?

It doesn't, can't, won't...
 
Last edited:

drg_hifi

Active member
Jan 10, 2021
12
6
25
Visit site
Go for FTP Cat 6 cable, something cheap should do the work. That's a shielded cable, that's what I also use and I don't lose a bit. Layer 2 and 3 protocol from TCP/IP stack will retransmit any lost bytes so never worry.
For details: at layer 2 there is CRC - cyclic redundancy check which detects lost frames and at TCP layer any lost segment is retransmitted.
Streaming applications operate at layer 3 as far as I know, this means they use TCP segments - needed for DRM decoding- -> lost segments are always retransmitted.

Ps: shielded cables are a must when in vicinity of microwave owens or any electromagnetic emitters like any kind of small electric motors.

Hope it helps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThisIsJimmy

ThisIsJimmy

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2020
292
122
2,070
Visit site
CAT6A U/FTP should do as said by @drg_hifi. Most music streamers will use TCP so long as it's a buffered stream. Any live streamed radio/channels/live content will be UDP.

Christmas Lights are another classic EM Emitter that people overlook.

What won’t? A switch or a better power supply? Which ones have you tried, or are you just assuming?

Network equipment has to meet a whole plethora of industry standard IEC and IEEEs to make it to the market. It wouldn't even be certified if it was not up to scratch. Any interference affecting this type of equipment would be environmentally generated from EM/harmonic emitters nearby the switch/router unless the switch/router in question was seriously defective/broken.

As the stream is digital and not analogue up until the decoding device it is less prone to interference, and so long as it is a buffered TCP stream data can be resent. If you are worried about this in your own house, you can check for packet loss just by doing an extended ping test.

Go to 'start' -> 'run' -> 'CMD' then press 'enter'. Then enter 'ping -t ***.***.***.*** (* denote the IP Address. e.g. 192.168.1.100). You should be able to pull this off your routers IP table.

You are much more likely to suffer packet loss in the 'last mile' copper transmission to your own house. As the OP has stated he is getting above 100Mb, if he is a UK resident he will have Fibre to the Premesis (FTTP) at those speeds, so this would be a non starter.

As for power, moden UK Home power is very stable, and reconditioning is only worth it if you are creating/mastering music. Most power issues are usually related to:
- The age of the property if it's got really old electrics which need updating.
- If you have a EM enducing devices sharing a multi-adaptor or the same electrical circuit. If this was the case you would hear this on your analogue equipment/speakers/amps.
 
Network equipment has to meet a whole plethora of industry standard IEC and IEEEs to make it to the market.
Thanks for you detailed reply. Yes, I’m aware of that. Are you saying you’ve tried a switch in an audio system in a domestic setting and found it made no difference, or that you believe your technical understanding of streaming means it is pointless?
You’ll be aware there are several ‘Hifi’ switches currently on sale, and many users reports improved results. Is that simply placebo, or might something be happening that industry standards don’t recognise?
 

abacus

Well-known member
Thanks for you detailed reply. Yes, I’m aware of that. Are you saying you’ve tried a switch in an audio system in a domestic setting and found it made no difference, or that you believe your technical understanding of streaming means it is pointless?
You’ll be aware there are several ‘Hifi’ switches currently on sale, and many users reports improved results. Is that simply placebo, or might something be happening that industry standards don’t recognise?

Anyone that tells you HI-Fi network cable and switches make a difference compared to a standard a correctly specified unit is nothing but a con artist, ask them to provide verifiable proof or even proof from an independent double blind test and they will go silent, or claim it is not relevant. (A sure sign that are trying to rip you off, just like most Hi fi cable manufactures do)

Bill
 

ThisIsJimmy

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2020
292
122
2,070
Visit site
Thanks for you detailed reply. Yes, I’m aware of that. Are you saying you’ve tried a switch in an audio system in a domestic setting and found it made no difference, or that you believe your technical understanding of streaming means it is pointless?
You’ll be aware there are several ‘Hifi’ switches currently on sale, and many users reports improved results. Is that simply placebo, or might something be happening that industry standards don’t recognise?
From a switch standpoint it is frankly placebo. We transmit audio visual trafic over ethernet at work using a variety of manufacturer switches. All are built on the same standards as what you will find in your home. If such a thing existed frankly the datacentre and ISP markets would be a complete mess, and the internet would not be as reliable as it is today.

Because i don't frankly own a spectrum analyzer costing £20k+ to tell you the difference i'll link you to Audio Science review who have done this comparison alreaady.

Cable grades make an actual difference in protecting against packet loss from signal interference. You should not require more than CAT6A/ FTP unless you plan on cabling up to 100 Metres at 10Gb. Their is no normal requirment for that for 99.9% of homeowners. Anyone who tells you that having gold endplates or stupidly expensive cable is a con artist. If you get confused with DcA/CcA/BcA etc. grades of cabling, these are to do with levels of fire resistance etc. which different buildings have a different requirement for as outlined by British Standards and other health and safety/legal agencies.

As for power, making changes to your power setup will result in an improvement only if you have an issue to start with.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nopiano
From a switch standpoint it is frankly placebo. We transmit audio visual trafic over ethernet at work using a variety of manufacturer switches. All are built on the same standards as what you will find in your home. If such a thing existed frankly the datacentre and ISP markets would be a complete mess, and the internet would not be as reliable as it is today.

Because i don't frankly own a spectrum analyzer costing £20k+ to tell you the difference i'll link you to Audio Science review who have done this comparison alreaady.

Cable grades make an actual difference in protecting against packet loss from signal interference. You should not require more than CAT6A/ FTP unless you plan on cabling up to 100 Metres at 10Gb. Their is no normal requirment for that for 99.9% of homeowners. Anyone who tells you that having gold endplates or stupidly expensive cable is a con artist. If you get confused with DcA/CcA/BcA etc. grades of cabling, these are to do with levels of fire resistance etc. which different buildings have a different requirement for as outlined by British Standards and other health and safety/legal agencies.

As for power, making changes to your power setup will result in an improvement only if you have an issue to start with.
Thanks again, that’s great. As I mentioned in post #3 I use Duronic Cat 6a so I’m okay there, and my switch is a basic Netgear GS model.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThisIsJimmy
Anyone that tells you HI-Fi network cable and switches make a difference compared to a standard a correctly specified unit is nothing but a con artist, ask them to provide verifiable proof or even proof from an independent double blind test and they will go silent, or claim it is not relevant. (A sure sign that are trying to rip you off, just like most Hi fi cable manufactures do)

Bill
I’ve never seen an ‘independent double blind test’ for any Hifi gear, Bill. Have you?
 

abacus

Well-known member
I’ve never seen an ‘independent double blind test’ for any Hifi gear, Bill. Have you?

There has been a few over the years, (A number in professional music/studio magazines as well) I have also attended many over the years, which when combined with my engineering background allows me to sort the wheat from the chaff. (Hi Fi Network cables and switches are most certainly chaff)

Bill
 
  • Like
Reactions: daveh75

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts