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Right Speaker cablegauge?
- Thread starter audipheonix
- Start date
audipheonix said:
I tried with ordinary 18 ga electric cord, then progressively thicker cord, then solid (not stranded) wire, then finally speaker cables, and there were very significant differences. Mostly those differences were in the bass, but that depends a lot on the amp and so-called damping factors. Some of the speaker cables I tried changed the highs noticeably, but I assume most or all of today's good speaker cable does not have that problem, caused I think by excessive capacitance in the cable.
I went from solid core, Audioquest Type IV copper cable to 322-strand which was almost indistinguishable. I now use 400-strand speaker cable and would recommend anyone to check these options out. The fact that I spent less than £20 to get the 400-strand simply means that there's more money for music or shopping on Amazon...! Certainly, won't be buying very expensive cables again - the performance benefits are vague IMO to say the least.
Dalethorn : when you noticed some accentuation of the upper frequencies upon trying different cables, they were probably silver plated with silver lining... A little more brightness, and more clarity. Arcam A-18 and Arcam CD-17 work well with silver interconnect, Paradigm speakers work well with silver lining speaker cables... but one should never use silver when, for example, wiring Yamaha AS-500... and worse, using all silver wires when wiring it with Monitor Audio speakers... which are already a nod on the bright side. Or I should rather say that their mid and high frequencies are naturally crisp and clear.
Recordspot : I noticed in many forums that your opinions on wiring were to use decent, basic wires... I wanted to ask, when you decided to "downgrade" your speaker cables, did you also downgrade your interconnect... And if so, I'd be interested to know what you tried and what you thought... and what you finally kept! See, I was about to buy Audioquest Type-4, but I'm not so sure anymore... and I'd like your feedback on interconnects too.
Audipheonix : if you find your sound to be too much on the bright side, that may be because of your silver wires... if not, then allelhuia! But I noticed a clear improvement in sound when dropping the silver cables and using copper with AS-500! As for gauge, a 12 or 15 should suffice to get good quality. I'd suggest at least 400 strands. It won't cost much...
Recordspot : I noticed in many forums that your opinions on wiring were to use decent, basic wires... I wanted to ask, when you decided to "downgrade" your speaker cables, did you also downgrade your interconnect... And if so, I'd be interested to know what you tried and what you thought... and what you finally kept! See, I was about to buy Audioquest Type-4, but I'm not so sure anymore... and I'd like your feedback on interconnects too.
Audipheonix : if you find your sound to be too much on the bright side, that may be because of your silver wires... if not, then allelhuia! But I noticed a clear improvement in sound when dropping the silver cables and using copper with AS-500! As for gauge, a 12 or 15 should suffice to get good quality. I'd suggest at least 400 strands. It won't cost much...
PhilBlvdElec said:
I've used a mix of interconnects over the years from ones costing £7 to Atlas Navigators (which I've got just now). In between times I've had van den hul "The Name", some Monster ones I can't recall the name of, Audioquest Copperheads and Turquoise and QED Qunex 2s. I bought the Navigators at a very good discount to try out earlier this year. They didn't exhibit any major change, but they're well built and look nice, so I've kept them. I still have the Monsters and QED Qunex 2 and if I ever need a few quid, I'll sell the Atlas ones.
I won't be going back to expensive cables, period and I'm happy with that choice.
Yes it does to a point. The thinner the wire, the higher the resistance in the wire and so less current will flow for any given input.
A reduced current flow will directly affect the ability of the amplifier to control the drivers and negatively impact the sound quality.
A reduced current flow will directly affect the ability of the amplifier to control the drivers and negatively impact the sound quality.
The RecordSpot : Thanks for the quick answer! I'll have to try a couple of things before deciding... I do have absolutely decent, well made 15 and 12 gauge at hand, not too expensive... Same thing for interconnects. If I can ask one more thing... you're surely of the "bare wires" school for speaker cables (when appliable, of course), are you? And also, is there a price range/quality level at which you'd consider pricier cables and interconnects? If you'd tell me a little more on both topics I'd like your views - and anyone else. I didn't really "pick a side" yet, if it really has to come to that, but both sides are making me ponder over many things... and many advices here are so interesting to read, no matter the view.
Audiphoenix : perhaps we didn't fully answer your question. Don't take my word for the absolute truth... but quickly, as even good quality OHFC copper, for example, still has a lot of "impurities" that get in the way of the feed, up to a certain point the thicker is the "better"... but over that certain point, size doesn't do good. Impedence is too high, and there was something about control and materials too... or something. I don't really know, I overlooked that part a little to get to more interesting and down to earth stuff, but I heard the difference by myself on plenty of occasions at work, and I know that 18 gauge is just too small for good stuff... sound is aloof or harsh or just damn disquieting in some way, distorsion comes in much faster, the whole experience can always easily be perfected for so little money per feet... On the other hand, I never saw speaker cables over 12 gauge for home entertainement. Still... I'm sort of a well-but-quickly informed-mostly-by-himself enthusiastic newbie, so... Working on setting up the new HT demo room we got helped some for quick experience... :O I can tell you that much : for budget A/V sets (basic 5.1 amp, 5.0 satellite speakers and small sub of "Unknown" brand) we use 18 gauge, entry level is 15 or 12, mid level is better quality 12, and "high" level we use a PVC coated biwiring cable combined into 1/1. It does add a knack, mostly when using THX mode on the amp, without being too costy. Those gauge choices are fairly automatic, when you think of it, except maybe the last one. For example, there's barely enough space to fit a 18 gauge bare wire in the connectors of budget satellites... so to speak. So why go with 15 anyway? But the connectors on my top range FX speakers easily offer thrice that size. You would genuinely feel cheap wiring it with 18 gauge... and so would it sound. For stereo Hi-Fi we use more specific cables... all sorts of them. Though the basic 18-15-12 gauge are always close at hand to be demoed by the customer. And we don't biwire anything. :? I REALLY wonder why...
Audiphoenix : perhaps we didn't fully answer your question. Don't take my word for the absolute truth... but quickly, as even good quality OHFC copper, for example, still has a lot of "impurities" that get in the way of the feed, up to a certain point the thicker is the "better"... but over that certain point, size doesn't do good. Impedence is too high, and there was something about control and materials too... or something. I don't really know, I overlooked that part a little to get to more interesting and down to earth stuff, but I heard the difference by myself on plenty of occasions at work, and I know that 18 gauge is just too small for good stuff... sound is aloof or harsh or just damn disquieting in some way, distorsion comes in much faster, the whole experience can always easily be perfected for so little money per feet... On the other hand, I never saw speaker cables over 12 gauge for home entertainement. Still... I'm sort of a well-but-quickly informed-mostly-by-himself enthusiastic newbie, so... Working on setting up the new HT demo room we got helped some for quick experience... :O I can tell you that much : for budget A/V sets (basic 5.1 amp, 5.0 satellite speakers and small sub of "Unknown" brand) we use 18 gauge, entry level is 15 or 12, mid level is better quality 12, and "high" level we use a PVC coated biwiring cable combined into 1/1. It does add a knack, mostly when using THX mode on the amp, without being too costy. Those gauge choices are fairly automatic, when you think of it, except maybe the last one. For example, there's barely enough space to fit a 18 gauge bare wire in the connectors of budget satellites... so to speak. So why go with 15 anyway? But the connectors on my top range FX speakers easily offer thrice that size. You would genuinely feel cheap wiring it with 18 gauge... and so would it sound. For stereo Hi-Fi we use more specific cables... all sorts of them. Though the basic 18-15-12 gauge are always close at hand to be demoed by the customer. And we don't biwire anything. :? I REALLY wonder why...
The reason I was interested in this topic is because I have previously connested my speakers with a 16 gauge wire which was from a local manufacturer claimed to be ofc. But the sound was not good. When played some Linkin Park the speakers where not capable to produce all the frequencies and the quality was poor. now changing to silver aniversary will it solve the problem?
PhilBlvdElec said:
I use bare wires for the speaker cables, not through any sound quality issues, more that I couldn't be bothered sticking plugs on them - pure laziness. I noticed no difference using bare wires or banana plugs (partly as for a while I ran the old Audioquest cable with one set plugged and the other speaker not - I must've been interrupted when I was fitting them and forgotten to put the other set on!) so for now it's just the bare wire.
Is there a price/range at which I'd consider pricier cables? No. Been there, done that, I don't have the t-shirt, just the credit card slips...the Navigators were the only exception and that was to see if any difference could be heard with a £220+ interconnect (I picked up for about £80 in a sale). And there wasn't. Hence, I won't be going down that route again. I'm happy with the choices I made. I think about ten interconnects and three lots of speaker wires are enough to confirm for me that well made and low cost are just fine. The pseudoscience and psychobabble that goes along with this I can do without.
audipheonix said:
The guage of the cable will only make a difference to the resistance, and as long as there enough material to reduce the resistance to a reasonable level, I would say no. There are other factors like insulation and whether for example, the cable is silver plated that will make more difference since these will affect the capacitance and inductance too (and hence the overall impedence).
This is the only real difference in cables IMO - the silver is the brighter of the two, copper not so much and more balanced. Silver cables also tend to be more expensive broadly speaking.
the record spot said:
I'd go along with that broadly...I believe the silver plating makes a difference is that the higher frequencies travel along the outside of the cable where the silver is, lower frequencies more in the middle of the strand.
Hmmm...bearing that in mind, I wonder if there would be any benefit from bi-wiring with differnt kinds of cables, say copper for the bass and silver for the mid/upper...Dr Lodge said:
Ive got Atlas Hyper biwire speaker cables on on the 2nd hifi which have different diameter cables for treble and bass
[*]Low frequency carrier: 2.0 sq mm 99.9997% OFC copper concentric rope lay stranded conductors[*]High frequency carrier: 1.20 sq mm solid OFC copper conductors
http://www.hificables.co.uk/11736/Atlas-Hyper-Bi-Wire-Speaker-Cable.html
[*]Low frequency carrier: 2.0 sq mm 99.9997% OFC copper concentric rope lay stranded conductors[*]High frequency carrier: 1.20 sq mm solid OFC copper conductors
http://www.hificables.co.uk/11736/Atlas-Hyper-Bi-Wire-Speaker-Cable.html
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