Richer Sounds: What are my rights?

[Big Aura]

Agreed - I have a Denon 1909 and watching certain channels is an odd experience - the Indian music channels on Freesat in particular, nothing comes out the front, only the rears produce sound, so I switch to stereo play-back.

If you're getting poor sound from more mainstream channels, perhaps there's something in it, tho.

 

[Andrew Everard]

If as I suspect the problem is being caused by too little signal on the inputs, it may be worth the OP going into the Denon's menu and increasing the sensitivity on the relevant inputs a bit by adjusting the 'Source Level' parameter on the Input Setup menu.

See manual p41.

That should ensure more signal is being delivered to the surround processing.

 

[Anonymous]

I was reading through this post thinking exactly what rob 981 has just said! when watching tv through an av amp using Pro logic or neo ect ect you do get a few weird sounds coming from random speakers! like andrew said its down your amp converting stereo into 5.1 and makin a few errors on the way! my every av amp ive had does this on some programs

 

[Anonymous]

Yep, happens a little through my Missions from my Onk 606. It's very intermittent so hadn't really thought to increase the input sensitivity and, to be honest, only really happens on channels I don't like.(Music Channels, ESPN, Living).

It does happen in both the Surround and the All Ch Stereo but only through the rears.

 

[Sorreltiger]

Unless I've misread the situation, the Op is also (I think) using DSP modes, rather than simply PLIIx or Neo 6. ÿAlthough I'm not personally acquainted with the Denon receivers, I would have thought that some kind of 'straight' mode would be more likely to produce good results. ÿThe added ambience of the DSP processing may be causing problems.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Yes, but all these DSP modes work, to a greater or lesser extent, on phase and amplitude differences, so are probably affected in the same way.

 

[PIPPI]

Yes Andrew you are correct. Try listening to something like Eastenders, the processing noise is strange when you have got your ear against the rear speakers.

 

[Anonymous]

Hello all, Sincere thanks for the advice. Its been something of an education!

From what I've understood, this is kind of thing to what I've been experiencing on occasion. However I'm just finding it very hard to believe that this is the way the denon is "supposed" to sound? If so, I feel pretty sure it would have been picked up in a review / topic of some kind. I would also question the logic of including DSP modes at all as it would be a complete waste of time.

Let me iterate the problem. Everything is OK with a 5.1 source, stereo, 5 channel stereo, and direct (regardless of the source) (no DSP type processing at a guess?) All other modes (from memory, DTS: PLII, Neo 6 etc (both cinema and music modes) rock, jazz, game, matrix) illustrate the fault on an irregular basis with stereo inputs (via TV, DVD, CD & xbox (less with CD). They do however work fine some of the time on the same source and material that later illustrates the fault. Which is the most annoying thing in this situation. The easiest way to replicate the fault appears to be cycling through the different sound modes. The sound can be anything from very quite, but often loud, crackling/screaching to a boomy echo. Not the echo type effect as in the jazz and rock modes, but a repeating type stammer. The sound is very obviously wrong!

I thoroughly checked the cabling (used analogue and digital) and their immediacy to power cables. I even switched off mobiles, wifi, and cordless phone!!!

I'm no expert obviously, but as was pointed out earlier, I would of expected either RS or Denon (perhaps both) to be cogent of these issues if this was an accepted processing flaw. I recieved no indication at any time that these faults were to be expected under any conditions.

I'm just hoping that RS can replicate the fault at their end.

 

[PIPPI]

It definitly should not be crackling/screaching loudly, unless the gain on the rear channels is up way to high. If setup correctly you would need to get within 2" of the rear speakers to hear this noise.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Melon123:The sound can be anything from very quite, but often loud, crackling/screaching to a boomy echo. Not the echo type effect as in the jazz and rock modes, but a repeating type stammer. The sound is very obviously wrong!

Well, that sounds a lot more serious than you originally suggested, and the intermittent nature of the fault - ie it doesn't always occur with the same source on the same material - suggest something really is amiss.

I'd simply reject the unit you have now and ask the retailer in rather firm terms to replace it.

 

[Anonymous]

It does provide the same symptoms that you've suggested (quieter crackling). This in itself is not a major issue as the front noise is drowned out by the centre. Its just that this is just one end of a spectrum. The other end being a lot more obvious/unusable.

Do avr's have a board/chip that is dedicated to DSP functions. Could this be faulty/loose or something?

As an additional point, I apologise if I did'nt make myself very clear in the original post. I have returned the AVR as advised by RS customer service. I'm just kind of in the dark as to what I should do if they will say there is nothing wrong with it. Its kind of problematic with it being an intermittent fault. It may be that they test it and everything works perfectly!

Many thanks once again for the advice folks!

 

[Andrew Everard]

The same DSP board used for these effects will also handle the 'proper' surround processing, so if it was physically loose I'd expect the same problems on all inputs.

I'd just write a letter saying you're rejecting it due to problems you consider to be unacceptable, and which make the product not fit for purpose, and ask Richer Sounds to replace the product or, if you think another sample might be similarly affected, give you a refund.

If you bought it using a credit card, get the credit card company in the loop, too.

Yes, your 30-day exchange offered by RS has expired - in fact had when you first reported the fault - but at the risk of sounding like one of those dreadful online barrack-room lawyers, this doesn't affect your statutory rights.

 

[Anonymous]

Does this problem only come up when it's been running for some time or when it's cold?
I wonder if it only happens when the unit warms up and unless they run it for a long period they may not find anything wrong. I found this alot when I tested electronics, might be worth telling them if this is the case.

 

[Richer Sounds]

Dear Melon123,

Thank you for your post although I was extremely sorry to read of the ongoing problems you have been experiencing with your Denon receiver.

Of course, the last thing we want is a dissatisfied customer and am therefore at a loss to hear that our store have been so unhelpful rather than simply resolving this problem promptly!

I can assure you I shall be investigating this matter with the individuals concerned to determine how such a situation has been allowed to occur, and to work to prevent any similar situation from arising again in the future.

After checking, I can confirm your letter (dated 23rd Feb) was only received on the 28th February. Julian Richer replies to all correspondence without fail and within a reasonable timescale so feel your comment re no reply yet is a little unfair!.

However, to minimise any further delay and inconvenience, I would be more than happy to offer an exchange or full refund, whichever option you would prefer. To go ahead with this please let me know how you would like to proceed and I will make the necessary arrangements on your behalf.

In the meantime, please accept my apologies once again for the obvious inconvenience caused and I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Yours sincerely,

John Clayton
Operations Director
Richer Sounds

 

[Andrew Everard]

Am. of course, happy to supply the OP's email address to John Clayton if the OP wishes.

 

[rob_981]

Now that is what I call good customer service!

It's great to see companies such as Richer Sounds and Clearer Audio (these are just the two that leap to mind) getting involved in these forums. It certainly makes me more inclined to buy from them in the future.

 

[kena]

Yup a result , did think Melon123 should have given Richer Sounds a bit more time to respond to his letter , tho it should never have needed that course of action anyway.

 

[Anonymous]

Cant fault RS on this one good result for all

 

[Cofnchtr]

Hi,

Hats off to RS for sorting this out - exactly the type of CS the OP went to them for.

I bought my Yamaha amp from them and haven't had any issues. (mmmm - tempting fate methinx!!). It was a Sunday and they offered to take it out to my car, which I didn't use, but the offer was nice.

C'mon Melon - we want to know if you'll take up the offer...refund or replace...refund or replace.

Cheers,

Cofnchtr.

 

[Anonymous]

Hello All,

As it is clear to see, I believe I have been somewhat hasty in my judgement of Richer Sounds customer service to the point that I believe I have provided something of an injustice. While an initial impasse at branch level may have left me somewhat despairing of customer service generally. I would point out that the service, and understanding, which I have since received (both from the branch and the customer service function) has been first class. I've actually been quite impressed and can't recommend RS enough!

I would point out that the unit was returned (from testing) to the local branch yesterday. This is far in excess of the time I had initially anticipated. Had I been a little more patient I could have forgone my current embarrassment (this is me eating humble pie!).

Further to the issue regarding the fault, RS have reasserted that they could find nothing wrong with the AVR. That stated, they have reiterated their willingness to replace product or provide a full refund. They have also advised that they would be happy replace the unit with an alternative product.

I am hopeful that RS will accept my most sincere apologies for my all too hasty judgement and any bad feeling I may have illustrated. Like I said, I actually feel somewhat embarrassed for starting the post in the first place (additionally so given the amount of times it has been viewed). Given my experience, I would not hesitate in using RS in the future, and indeed plan to.

Sincere thanks to RS for their understanding!!!

 

[kena]

Hats off to you also Melon for acknowledging situation and apologies via post. Just let us know Refund replace or alternative 3 options now....

 

[Anonymous]

tractorboy:Well, Richer Sounds make a point of talking up their customer service, and the fact that the boss still takes a very personal interest in the day to day minutiae of the company, down to personally reading all completed customer feedback forms which are given out at every sale. I would be very surprised if you did not get a nice letter back from him offering you a replacement unit and apologising for the inconvenience.

Interesting that I come upon this thread. Feedback to this company using their forms and adding any extra details as they suggest is pointless, they don't respond. Maybe they made their rep. this way but it appears that service is no longer their driver.

I asked for a response on me believing that I was ripped-off after appearing to be overhcharged for a purchase - three weeks later not even the courtesy of an acknowledgement!

.. oh and don't think being a "VIP" customer helps, it doesn't.

D

 

[Andrew Everard]

Interesting indeed - a very vehement first post, if I may say so...

I'm sure if you'd like to provide some more details, John Clayton from Richer Sounds - who is often on these forums - will be more than happy to address your complaints, either here or directly.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

Andrew Everard:
Interesting indeed - a very vehement first post, if I may say so...

I'm sure if you'd like to provide some more details, John Clayton from Richer Sounds - who is often on these forums - will be more than happy to address your complaints, either here or directly.

I haven't read the whole post but my brother-in-law had a similar problem with his Denon 1508 a year or so ago. He bought it online and when it wrong, he found out that the company who sold it had to send it back to Denon for checks and if possible, repair. It went back a couple of times and was then replaced. I don't think RS are to blame. The OP should contact Denon directly if RS are not willing to do the liaising.

 

[Anonymous]

Gerrardasnails:Andrew Everard:
Interesting indeed - a very vehement first post, if I may say so...

I'm sure if you'd like to provide some more details, John Clayton from Richer Sounds - who is often on these forums - will be more than happy to address your complaints, either here or directly.

I haven't read the whole post but my brother-in-law had a similar problem with his Denon 1508 a year or so ago. He bought it online and when it wrong, he found out that the company who sold it had to send it back to Denon for checks and if possible, repair. It went back a couple of times and was then replaced. I don't think RS are to blame. The OP should contact Denon directly if RS are not willing to do the liaising.

Ditto, haven't read the whole thread past the edited first post,

But had the same issue with my faulty Denon bt2500 and my supplier, seems to be a Denon thing causing these issues.