Rhetorical question

As my daughter has streamed Spotify to the TV on her iPhone, she said she could show me how to use a dedicated streamer.

With that in mind, what streamer would work well with my system. No idea at this point of budget as I cant afford any further upgrades until probably the Spring.

If you guys can give me an idea what's hot and what's not....

Cheers
 

Gray

Well-known member
Around about the time the original CXN came out, I began thinking about a streamer.
Always liked the look of that, but never liked the price - even now at £699 for the V2 as opposed to the stupid £999 that it has been.

In the intervening years, I still ask myself what a dedicated streamer would offer, over and above the Pi that I currently use.
The answer for me is - not a lot.

For anyone else I'd say think about what it would do for you. What would it actually stream?
All too often I hear people complaining that radio stations are about to be switched off, or worse, become chargeable.
...the fact that some things work on one streamer and not another.....some you can enter URLs, others you can't etc.

If I ever spend £500+ on a streamer, I'd want the sort of certainty that I'm not sure is possible these days.

Will say this though. I find myself listening to 320kbs streams of 'disco' music and it often sounds fantastic.
Just the other day, I had to immediately play the 16/44.1 FLAC version of a track.
(Same streamer, same DAC).
Nowhere near as good - and pretty sure it was nothing to do with the master.
Defies conventional wisdom, especially for those that wouldn't touch compressed streams with a bargepole.
 
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Essentially I’d suggest looking at it as another source, much like a CD player. Like CD, some are ‘transport’ only and need a DAC added, but more are complete with an in-built DAC, like the CXN and Node mentioned above.

The usability is the key thing. I’m wedded for good or evil to iThings, but I recall you might use and Android phone/tablet? A used Node would be an affordable way in to see if you like the idea. Or even a Chromecast Audio, which were about £25 and now sell for £50ish.

I did a similar thing starting with a Logitech Touch back in March 2013, then later upgraded to a used Linn Sneaky. (Between the two I resold them for what they cost me).
 

Gray

Well-known member
Please explain for this iriot, what, in particular, makes the Leema streamer worth twice that of the Bluesound (new prices)
I'd say the DAC is likely to be better.
For what it's worth, it's got a balanced output.
And some visual match to other Leema gear.

But if it's twice the price?............yours is a fair question.
 
Thanks guys. Not interested in a streamer if I have to add a Dac. I could just get a Dac connected to the TV and straight to the amp (with digital from TV and RCAs to the amp).

It's either has to be an all-in-one, with a built-in Dac or....it has to be idiot proof.
 

robdmarsh

Well-known member
I think you know what I'm going to say.
For pretty great sound quality at a very reasonable price get the ifi Zen One signature. Personally, I don't think you need to invest in a streamer. To play without any other boxes the Zen One is bluetooth only. Is this a problem? From an SQ point of view absolutely not for my ears, I had a Node 2021 and I much prefer the SQ from this. From a convenience point of view, I much prefer bluetooth: you can use the native streaming apps, don't know others, but Amazon HD is very slick. Want to add a streamer later on down the line? No problem, the Zen One has several inputs.
Caveats?: notifications come over the speakers, very politely and do not annoy me whatsoever. Calls interrupt the music and you can answer on the phone and the music starts again when the call is finished. Again no problem for me at all. Check out the review on AVForums. The guy gives it a 10 and he is one fussy git!
 

Symples

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Aug 12, 2021
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Thanks guys. Not interested in a streamer if I have to add a Dac. I could just get a Dac connected to the TV and straight to the amp (with digital from TV and RCAs to the amp).

It's either has to be an all-in-one, with a built-in Dac or....it has to be idiot proof.

Adding a streamer doesn't mean having to add a DAC (but you could if you want)
The main thing is sound quality, then ease of use. Budget comes in to it of course.

Give ebay a glance. I bought my streamer (Pioneer N50A) second hand £240. There are some bargains to be found.

Look for the services they support.
Unfortunately the N50A only supports Spotify, Internet stations (plus the usual digital files) The N50AE supports Deezer, Amazon etc.

Hey... besides the Bluenode...also consider Audiolab, Pioneer N30AE,
 
As my daughter has streamed Spotify to the TV on her iPhone, she said she could show me how to use a dedicated streamer.

With that in mind, what streamer would work well with my system. No idea at this point of budget as I cant afford any further upgrades until probably the Spring.

If you guys can give me an idea what's hot and what's not....

Cheers
that's not a rhetorical question....
 
Adding a streamer doesn't mean having to add a DAC (but you could if you want)
The main thing is sound quality, then ease of use. Budget comes in to it of course.

Give ebay a glance. I bought my streamer (Pioneer N50A) second hand £240. There are some bargains to be found.

Look for the services they support.
Unfortunately the N50A only supports Spotify, Internet stations (plus the usual digital files) The N50AE supports Deezer, Amazon etc.

Hey... besides the Bluenode...also consider Audiolab, Pioneer N30AE,
Have to admit the Pioneer streamer appeals (I demoed a Pioneer Bluray before buying the Panny) and given my history with Pioneer amps, it's one, along with the Leema streamer, that really tugs my rug.
 

robdmarsh

Well-known member
Good answer, doifeellucky, except that nowadays the compromise in sound quality with bluetooth that you mention is questionable at best. Numbers tell one story (yes compression reduces the bitrate considerably) but our ears tell another. I think a lot of those who claim to hear the difference between hi-res and compressed hi-res are deluding themselves. I much preferred the sound of the Zen One over the full hi-res Node. I suspect that the DAC in the Node is pretty mediocre and that is putting it politely. I suppose my claims about not needing a streamer could be easily tested by getting a Wiim mini on Amazon and passing the DAC duties over to the Zen One via optical. I have a sneaking suspicion that I would still prefer the Zen One on its own as everything I've tried from ifi is so well- designed and that would include the bluetooth receiver.

It does truly amaze me that there is a market for people who spend £2.5k on a streamer then the same again on a DAC.
 
Hi PP

Firstly do you have a your own phone, tablet or laptop you can install and use Spotify (other streaming services are available) on?

If yes these are some options;

1) If your phone/tablet/laptop has a headphone socket then it has a inbuilt DAC, so get a 3.5mm to RCA cable for £5-£10, and just connect via a cable, at least to get you started.

However if the idea of having a phone/tablet/laptop wired to your amp, so not really usable when playing music, doesn’t appeal then:

2) Get a Bluetooth enabled DAC, something like the ifi Zen Air Blue for £99, that you will connect via RCA to your amp and will allow you to play any audio from your phone/tablet/laptop without wires. Bluetooth is purely for convenience. It just provides a wireless way (you still need to connect the Bluetooth DAC via RCA to your amp though) for you to connect your phone/tablet/laptop to your amp.

However there are three primary issues with Bluetooth, i) bit rate (just think sound quality) is less than CD, but you probably won’t notice, ii) if you move your phone/tablet/laptop out of range of the Bluetooth DAC, typically 15-20 ft (depends on your room, walls, how old your phone/tablet/laptop is as there are newer better versions of Bluetooth that get closer to CD quality and offer better range), the connection will be compromised and you’ll not get music, and iii) all the time you are playing music you’ll be draining the battery on your phone/tablet/laptop faster than normal.

3) Get an all in one DAC and streamer, if you value convenience. Just think of this like a CD player (with a DAC as most are) but instead of a remote to control CD playback, you control it with your phone/tablet and you can play anything you can find (search for) within the streaming service of your choice. Another benefit of a streamer, especially if used with something like Spotify Connect, is there is no drain on the phone/tablet when using it. It’s purely a device to select what is being played. Once selected the actual music is streamed via the streamer.

Two issues, i) these are typically overpriced for what they offer in terms of sound quality. A Wiim Mini (£89 streamer) and something like a Topping E30 Mk 2 (£149 DAC) both from Amazon, arguably offer equivalent sonic performance to the £450 (currently £100 off) Bluesound Node and £799 Cambridge CXN V2, as they both use fairly budget oriented DACs, ii) some use awful streaming software known as DTS Play-Fi. You’ll have to take my word for it that this is very poor (and could put you off streaming for good), but as an example DTS Play-Fi doesn’t properly support gapless playback, so you get a significant pause between tracks, which is particularly noticeable on albums like The Dark Side of the Moon. It also offers limited streaming service support. Unfortunately this means you’ll need to avoid anything by Pioneer or Audiolab (until they stop using DTS Play-Fi) but there are other brands that also use DTS Play-Fi and often this isn’t mentioned in the spec. If you don’t care about gapless playback and you’ll only ever use Spotify, DTS Play-Fi may not be an issue, but it is generally not recommended. Roksan and Nad both use the software found in the Bluesound Node, which is far superior, but the Bluesound Node just isn’t particularly good value as a dedicated streamer due to the quality of its DAC.

4) Get a streamer like a Wiim Mini (the size of a hockey puck) and an external DAC such as the previously mentioned Topping E30 Mk 2 (the size of a small book - there are lots of alternatives) both which are very small and can be hidden away behind or on your existing equipment. Have a look on YouTube for a review of each and you’ll see what I mean. Provided your house has Wi-Fi you can be up and running in 5-10 minutes with your daughters help.

The negatives are i) box count (so additional power requirements) and potential clutter, but the options I mentioned negates this, and ii) getting a DAC that doesn’t work well with your amp and/or your personal sonic preferences. You’ll probably need to look into this in more detail. That would also apply to the all in one options.

Based on your feedback it feels like something with Bluetooth as robdmarsh suggested, like the ifi Zen Air Blue (£99), might be the best option for you, but the three negatives I mentioned might be significant for you. The ifi Zen One Signature (£350) robdmarsh mentioned is more flexible as you could also connect it to a streamer (like the Wiim Mini) later, and it may offer a better sound signature than the Topping E30 Mk 2 (perhaps too analytical) I mentioned.

Despite your comments I would recommend the streamer and DAC option (that you can hide away) if you value sound quality. If you decide you like using streaming, my parents are primarily vinyl and CD users, but have really come to appreciate the practicality and massive increase in their library, that you can also take with you, you can always upgrade the DAC later. A dedicated DAC may even improve the sound quality from your existing CD player if it has an optical output.

I hope that helps. If you need clarification on anything just ask. If you’d prefer not to use a phone, tablet or laptop, optical out of your TV into a DAC then into your amp as you mentioned is probably the best option. The negative to this is you’ll be compromising how you’re able to use the streaming service if relying on your TV being on all the time and its remote control to use it.
Yes, have a Samsung Galaxy J4+., which is powered by Android. The headphone socket is okay but doesn't compare to my daughter's Apple iPhone which is similar vintage.

When it comes to digital technology I'm rubbish.
 
Yes, have a Samsung Galaxy J4+., which is powered by Android. The headphone socket is okay but doesn't compare to my daughter's Apple iPhone which is similar vintage.

When it comes to digital technology I'm rubbish.
In addition, if my system very much a budget set-up, I wouldn't hesitate using the phone built-in Dac, but I need, should I go down the streamer route, something that'll justify the quality of my bundles.
 

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