Comparing a broadcast from bluray isnt really the sort of test I was speaking of. The bluray will have a FAR higher bitrate
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ive got a qed performance cable , and a e4.99 tesco cable , both hdmi , i use the qed between my avr and tv , but when i switch over , and use the poverty spec tesco cable , i can see zero difference , none whatsoever ..
Yes, but you keep telling us you think your TV is wonky donkey, so that's probably not a good test...
hence all the cable swapping , trying to unwonk the tv , didnt work , but at least it gave me some scientific cable evidence
...
I bet no one has ever taking into consideration that we are all not 20/20 vision and we can see colours or even sounds different to each other , we are all not the same
aliEnRIK:edsib1:
hdmi uses error correction as well.
Actually, it doesnt
YES IT DOES.
HDMI uses 8 bit BHC ECC parity error correction. It is a trivial process whereby the data can be checked by the receiving component and corrected as neccessary.
This is one of the reasons why all cables perform the same provided they are built to a spec and quality, and another benefit of being in the digital world.
hdmi uses error correction as well.
Actually, it doesnt
YES IT DOES.
HDMI uses 8 bit BHC ECC parity error correction. It is a trivial process whereby the data can be checked by the receiving component and corrected as neccessary.
This is one of the reasons why all cables perform the same provided they are built to a spec and quality, and another benefit of being in the digital world.
edsib1:
YES IT DOES.
HDMI uses 8 bit BHC ECC parity error correction. It is a trivial process whereby the data can be checked by the receiving component and corrected as neccessary.
This is one of the reasons why all cables perform the same provided they are built to a spec and quality, and another benefit of being in the digital world.
HDMI uses TERC 4 Error reduction coding , this is not the same as error correction at all
YES IT DOES.
HDMI uses 8 bit BHC ECC parity error correction. It is a trivial process whereby the data can be checked by the receiving component and corrected as neccessary.
This is one of the reasons why all cables perform the same provided they are built to a spec and quality, and another benefit of being in the digital world.
HDMI uses TERC 4 Error reduction coding , this is not the same as error correction at all
BHC is used with the audio.
terc4 is just a simple encoding method.
Video uses Terc4 to convert the 8bit pixel information into a 10bit dc balanced transition. A dc balanced wave avoids bit errors which could otherwise be introduced in transmission from voltage imbalances betwen connected components.
The point being that as no conversion is required - all u are doing is applying a trivial encoding - transmission error is virtually null.
You also need to bear in mind that there is a distance limitation of around 5m, so for distances over this a different solution is required.
terc4 is just a simple encoding method.
Video uses Terc4 to convert the 8bit pixel information into a 10bit dc balanced transition. A dc balanced wave avoids bit errors which could otherwise be introduced in transmission from voltage imbalances betwen connected components.
The point being that as no conversion is required - all u are doing is applying a trivial encoding - transmission error is virtually null.
You also need to bear in mind that there is a distance limitation of around 5m, so for distances over this a different solution is required.
Has anyone ever done a blind test on a bunch of HDMI, so you don't know what is being used but just judge the picture on what it looks like not what the label says on the cable? I'd be interested to see the outcome of that.
michael hoy
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D3CYPH3R:Has anyone ever done a blind test on a bunch of HDMI, so you don't know what is being used but just judge the picture on what it looks like not what the label says on the cable? I'd be interested to see the outcome of that.
Did that with 2 cables a QED and a Monster HDMI, my wife saw the difference in PQ straight away.
I have to say that I saw the difference but did not believe it, hence my wife tested it.
Did that with 2 cables a QED and a Monster HDMI, my wife saw the difference in PQ straight away.
I have to say that I saw the difference but did not believe it, hence my wife tested it.
professorhat
Well-known member
- Dec 28, 2007
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D3CYPH3R:Has anyone ever done a blind test on a bunch of HDMI, so you don't know what is being used but just judge the picture on what it looks like not what the label says on the cable? I'd be interested to see the outcome of that.
Has been done many times. WHF's testing process for any cables has been confirmed by the team as proper blind testing so they can ensure that the picture and sound improvements they see / hear are not down to any unintentional leanings towards bias towards the more expensive cables. The recent Big Question feature though which found that most people saw differences but preferred the cheaper cables shows that these things are worth doing for yourself to ensure you're getting value for money for your needs, not anyone else's - hence why sensible advice is to buy from a retailer who'll give you a no quibble money back guarantee.
Has been done many times. WHF's testing process for any cables has been confirmed by the team as proper blind testing so they can ensure that the picture and sound improvements they see / hear are not down to any unintentional leanings towards bias towards the more expensive cables. The recent Big Question feature though which found that most people saw differences but preferred the cheaper cables shows that these things are worth doing for yourself to ensure you're getting value for money for your needs, not anyone else's - hence why sensible advice is to buy from a retailer who'll give you a no quibble money back guarantee.
If u believe these blind tests then thats up to u.
Personally I perfer to go with the technical reasons why HDMI cables within spec wont make a difference which concurs with most of the other technical av websites on the internet.
Personally I perfer to go with the technical reasons why HDMI cables within spec wont make a difference which concurs with most of the other technical av websites on the internet.
Andrew Everard:Ah right, so now even the results of blind tests aren't good enough...?
Andrew,
There's none so *** as folk...................as they say
As we all know, trust your ears and eyes..................if it seems better, IT IS!
Andrew,
There's none so *** as folk...................as they say
As we all know, trust your ears and eyes..................if it seems better, IT IS!
fayeanddavid:
Andrew Everard:Ah right, so now even the results of blind tests aren't good enough...?
Andrew,
There's none so *** as folk...................as they say
As we all know, trust your ears and eyes..................if it seems better, IT IS!
This is the most inaccurate use of the word "we" on the forum this week and I claim my £5.
Andrew Everard:Ah right, so now even the results of blind tests aren't good enough...?
Andrew,
There's none so *** as folk...................as they say
As we all know, trust your ears and eyes..................if it seems better, IT IS!
This is the most inaccurate use of the word "we" on the forum this week and I claim my £5.
fayeanddavid:surely we do know that.....................??
There is a huge body of scientific evidence whiich shows that what we think we see, hear, smell etc and what has actually taken place are often very different - how do you think Derren Brown or Uri Geller make a living?
One interesting example concerned subjects being given two different wines to taste. One bottle was said to cost $50 the other $5 and the vast majority preferred the $50 bottle. The 50 and 5 labels were swapped and the subjects still preferred the bottle labelled $50. Experiments of this sort suggest that if you swap your free HDMI cable for a £50 cable, you will (all things being equal) prefer your new cable, which is why blind testing is to be recommended. It was interesting how well the free cable did in the What Hifi big question on the subject.
I remember seeing (at least I think I do) a program in which a group of people are shown a video of a simulated mugging of a black person by a white person. Using an agent provocateur, the experimenters managed to convince everyone in the group that they had seen the white person mugged by the black person.
I have read on this forum references to studies where subjects simply cannot reliably say which piece of music comes from which system when played blind the same piece several times on different systems.
There is a huge body of scientific evidence whiich shows that what we think we see, hear, smell etc and what has actually taken place are often very different - how do you think Derren Brown or Uri Geller make a living?
One interesting example concerned subjects being given two different wines to taste. One bottle was said to cost $50 the other $5 and the vast majority preferred the $50 bottle. The 50 and 5 labels were swapped and the subjects still preferred the bottle labelled $50. Experiments of this sort suggest that if you swap your free HDMI cable for a £50 cable, you will (all things being equal) prefer your new cable, which is why blind testing is to be recommended. It was interesting how well the free cable did in the What Hifi big question on the subject.
I remember seeing (at least I think I do) a program in which a group of people are shown a video of a simulated mugging of a black person by a white person. Using an agent provocateur, the experimenters managed to convince everyone in the group that they had seen the white person mugged by the black person.
I have read on this forum references to studies where subjects simply cannot reliably say which piece of music comes from which system when played blind the same piece several times on different systems.
However..................
I still contend that;
If it sounds good it is etc.
As an individual, I concur that all is not what it seems however if I believe the result is fit for purpose, meets my requirements or even exceeds them through systematic upgrades/purchases, rather than being told that the packet loss for £5.00 HDMI cable is no greater than it is for a £100.00 HDMI cable therefore they are the "same", then who am I (we) to argue.
Data transfer is a complex market, to digress slightly but maintain a point then the data cabling market (copper cabling in particular) which only carries packet data (1 and 0, I guess) has huge variances in price per metre, installation processes, termination etc say for Cat 6A from the premium and the industry recognised companies within the UK, a variance of 25% or more is not uncommon, with each company dwelling on all aspects of Cross Talk measurement and latency etc.,yet they all meet the standard certification laid down for the category of Data cabling......................resulting in consumer choice and the accepted preference (in all cases) that one product is "better" than the other, either by name or value for money
I still contend that;
If it sounds good it is etc.
As an individual, I concur that all is not what it seems however if I believe the result is fit for purpose, meets my requirements or even exceeds them through systematic upgrades/purchases, rather than being told that the packet loss for £5.00 HDMI cable is no greater than it is for a £100.00 HDMI cable therefore they are the "same", then who am I (we) to argue.
Data transfer is a complex market, to digress slightly but maintain a point then the data cabling market (copper cabling in particular) which only carries packet data (1 and 0, I guess) has huge variances in price per metre, installation processes, termination etc say for Cat 6A from the premium and the industry recognised companies within the UK, a variance of 25% or more is not uncommon, with each company dwelling on all aspects of Cross Talk measurement and latency etc.,yet they all meet the standard certification laid down for the category of Data cabling......................resulting in consumer choice and the accepted preference (in all cases) that one product is "better" than the other, either by name or value for money
I've ordered some Qed reference hdmi cables, will let you know if the OH sees a difference in pq. I'll do a blind test offcourse, don't want to induce the placebo-effect.
And don't mention anything about grammar or spelling, I'm not a native English speaker.
And don't mention anything about grammar or spelling, I'm not a native English speaker.
My cables have arrived, replaced all the old ones and me and my wife both see a warmer image but not a huge difference, albeit a pretty good difference non the less. Soundwise I can not comment , as I have yet to receive my new receiver, the marantz sr5005, and I did not reconfigure my str-dg910 with my new speakers as I knew that I was going to get the new receiver as well.
My conclusion and my opinion only is that the Qed reference hdmi cables are definitely an improvement. For me it was worth the £120 I paid for 3 x 1m and 1 x 2m hdmi cables. The recommended retail price of £50 is to be disregarded as I paid £22 for 1 x 1m.
My conclusion and my opinion only is that the Qed reference hdmi cables are definitely an improvement. For me it was worth the £120 I paid for 3 x 1m and 1 x 2m hdmi cables. The recommended retail price of £50 is to be disregarded as I paid £22 for 1 x 1m.
get a chord hdmi cable either super shield or chord active, best cables on the market, sorry for the late reply.
I dont worry too much about the tech details but for sure when I replaced a reasonably cheap Panasonic HDMI cable with Chord 1.3 HDMI Silver Plus, the improvement was there - and I expected it should be with the price difference. The sound was cleaner and the bass sounded better. The picture quality didnt change much but I noticed the blacks were a little blacker, but thats about it.
Just got a new .75m Chord Active for £40 on ebay. The shorter length really has made a huge difference to to the motion and pic control Vs the 1.5m Chord Active i have now used for BD player. I own Thatcable and QED also and have mixed and matched and the clarity of the picture in SD and HD is far greater with the Chord. Make sure you make any necessary picture changes though as picture became overblown when i first used it, had to 'reign' it in a little.
Strangely the Chord seems to work best with my Sky HD box compared to my other kit.Wierd!
Strangely the Chord seems to work best with my Sky HD box compared to my other kit.Wierd!
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