Rega Planar 1 Counterweight

[priam]

Double Post, pls disregard

 

[chebby]

Latest updates: They found something magnetic, somewhere.

Apparently because the Rega RB110 was designed for the Carbon Cartridge, the anti-skate is locked at 2g. They tell me they've found a way to change this. In summary because the tracking force of the Bias 2 is 1.75g they are either recommending a change of the stylus (back to Carbon) or allow them to fiddle with the Anti-skate (at least what they believe is the AS, I think this is what they were referring to when they talk of magnets).

Waiting for a green light or instructions from Rega on how to proceed.

There used to be a slider running in a calibrated slot (where there is now an RB110 badge) and this was connected to a cylindrical shaped magnet underneath. The magnet is still there but is now fixed - with glue - at a preset distance to correspond with use of the factory fitted cartridge.

I’d go for the option to simply refit the original Carbon cartridge rather than have this bunch hack around with your turntable and arm, with what is almost certainly a non-approved procedure, that is going to be very ‘trial-and-error’ and take at least a few attempts to get right.

The procedure is online but i’d rather not publicise it and recommend instead a refund and then second-hand purchase of the original RB101 equipped RP1 (or Rega P1 with RB100 arm) to give you the freedom to more easily explore different cartridges. (Or save up for the Rega Planar 3.)

 

[priam]

Not sure if a refund is still an option, seeing as I bought this from Amazon. The troubles I've experienced with the Planar 1 has now informed me to not buy a "plug and play". The Planar 3 does look nice, and would allow for different ranges of cartridges.

First turntable, and it had to come with so many troubles.

 

[chebby]

Not sure if a refund is still an option, seeing as I bought this from Amazon. The troubles I've experienced with the Planar 1 has now informed me to not buy a "plug and play". The Planar 3 does look nice, and would allow for different ranges of cartridges.

First turntable, and it had to come with so many troubles.

So get it set back to completely standard ‘out-of-the-box’ configuration with the Carbon cartridge and sell it. Such a recent model should not lose you a fortune and will give you a decent sum to start your Planar 3 fund.

Maybe the dealer will consider a full refund if you are buying the Planar 3 brand-new from him with the money. (Assuming he is a bone-fide Rega dealer which I am not quite convinced of yet given that this has been going on since July without a satisfactory fix!)

EDIT... let’s be clear, did you buy just the Bias 2 cartridge from Amazon, or did you buy the whole turntable from Amazon as well?

Or, are you going to this Rega dealer as the dealer you bought the Planar 1 from?

A lot of what you write is ambiguous.

 

[priam]

I'd need to save up twice what I saved for the Planar 1. Unfortunately I blew a lot of my funds on my speakers.

Bought everything from Amazon, first the Planar 1 with the prefitted Carbon. Then, after a month, bought the Bias 2 (out of curiosity), once again from Amazon.

 

[Al ears]

Latest updates: They found something magnetic, somewhere.

Apparently because the Rega RB110 was designed for the Carbon Cartridge, the anti-skate is locked at 2g. They tell me they've found a way to change this. In summary because the tracking force of the Bias 2 is 1.75g they are either recommending a change of the stylus (back to Carbon) or allow them to fiddle with the Anti-skate (at least what they believe is the AS, I think this is what they were referring to when they talk of magnets).

Waiting for a green light or instructions from Rega on how to proceed.

There used to be a slider running in a calibrated slot (where there is now an RB110 badge) and this was connected to a cylindrical shaped magnet underneath. The magnet is still there but is now fixed - with glue - at a preset distance to correspond with use of the factory fitted cartridge.

I’d go for the option to simply refit the original Carbon cartridge rather than have this bunch hack around with your turntable and arm, with what is almost certainly a non-approved procedure, that is going to be very ‘trial-and-error’ and take at least a few attempts to get right.

The procedure is online but i’d rather not publicise it and recommend instead a refund and then second-hand purchase of the original RB101 equipped RP1 (or Rega P1 with RB100 arm) to give you the freedom to more easily explore different cartridges. (Or save up for the Rega Planar 3.)

+1

This sort of tamper-proofing is fine if you don't ever want to upgrade the turntable (which probably means a lot of the present day vinyl junkies are happy with it as is) but if you do want to experiment occasionally with different cartridges, beyond the Bias 2 that is, then this is clearly not the ideal deck to do it on

 

[nopiano]

I'd need to save up twice what I saved for the Planar 1. Unfortunately I blew a lot of my funds on my speakers.

Bought everything from Amazon, first the Planar 1 with the prefitted Carbon. Then, after a month, bought the Bias 2 (out of curiosity), once again from Amazon.

I'm not too surprised that a dealer isn't so keen then, unless you're paying their labour costs. Can you return either or both to Amazon?

I can't believe that the difference in antiskate relevant to a 0.25g tracking weight reduction is enough to cause skipping, but historically Rega overstated the antiskate requirements, which wasn't an issue when user adjustment could reduce it. If this is the cause then skipping will be backwards - is that the symptom?

 

[priam]

Skipping is indeed backward, haven't encountered a forward skip yet.

Obviously I'm paying labour cost. This is Thailand.

I bought everything from Amazon UK, which makes returning that bit more difficult.

 

[CJSF]

Having waded through this thread, afraid I could not read it all, however I get the jist. The OP has an issue that is not easy to overcome. I have been out of the 'basics' loop for a long time, prefering to do my own thing upgrade my P5 over a number of years, often laughed at or finger pointed with coments like 'why not simply buy the next TT up'? My upgrading has cost around £650.00, to match the quality of sound I get, one would need to spend £2000.00 to £3000.00! The bonus for me, I know my TT inside out making any adjustment simple to asses, 'an improvement or just different', one can also use any cartridge of fancy, thats of course if I can afford it? The same process applies to my amplifier but thats another story . . . .

Drawing on this experiance. would it be possible to buy a used Rega arm with the bias as it was in the 'old days', replace the curent arm with the 'original used Rega arm'. I cant believe those old arms are that expensive these days. Cant remember the ref., numbers, I'm sure someone will fill in. Arm hight is a consideration here . . . one thing at a time I think, the one area where diferent could be describes as 'better or worse', getting into the relms prefered sound here?

One presumes Rega still use the same fitting and geometary on the current P1?

CJS

 

[priam]

Where have you been my whole life?

Obviously will need to check specifications.
Anyone think the dealership will let me trade down to the P1 arm, with no extra costs? Assuming they still have the P1 arm.

 

[chebby]

It’s why I suggested selling the Planar 1 (complete) and buying a second-hand P1/RB100 (or RP1/RB101) yesterday...

... and then second-hand purchase of the original RB101 equipped RP1 (or Rega P1 with RB100 arm) to give you the freedom to more easily explore different cartridges. (Or save up for the Rega Planar 3.)

I guess you missed it.

Both options leave you without the problem of having to sell an almost new RB110 (and no need to swap arms yourself).

Another problem you’d avoid is trying to source a used RB100 or RB101 tonearm. They are not sold separately like the RB2nn or RB3nn models so tend not to come up on ebay separately.

 

[nopiano]

Where have you been my whole life?

Obviously will need to check specifications. Anyone think the dealership will let me trade down to the P1 arm, with no extra costs? Assuming they still have the P1 arm.

This comes back to what I now see is the core issue. You bought both the original TT and the replacement cartridge on Amazon. The dealer couldn't fix your problem, because they didn't even know that official upgrade cartridges weighed more. They would hardly be willing or able to jump though hoops to change the arm, and I'd have no confidence in their abilities anyway.

I think you need to revert to the standard setup until you can get a better turntable. If you can return the cartridge that will reduce your losses.

 

[Al ears]

Where have you been my whole life?

Obviously will need to check specifications. Anyone think the dealership will let me trade down to the P1 arm, with no extra costs? Assuming they still have the P1 arm.

This comes back to what I now see is the core issue. You bought both the original TT and the replacement cartridge on Amazon. The dealer couldn't fix your problem, because they didn't even know that official upgrade cartridges weighed more. They would hardly be willing or able to jump though hoops to change the arm, and I'd have no confidence in their abilities anyway.

I think you need to revert to the standard setup until you can get a better turntable. If you can return the cartridge that will reduce your losses.

+1

 

[CJSF]

There is an RB300 on eBay at the moment £150.00, not cheap but an excelent arm on which many OEM offerings are based, I personaly use one of the said OEM offereings to which I have made some 'simple non standard tweeks which cost only pennies' to vastly improve its performance.

The economic way to handle this is swap arms, keep the curent arm then when you sell the P1 on swap the original arm back. Hang on to the RB300, if required use it again on the new purchase, or if the upgrade comes with a halfway decent arm that you like? Sell on the RB300 and recoup some cash. Obviously this option is relient on the geometary and fixing, with respect, assuming you do not have the skills to modify the fixing?

CJS

 

[Al ears]

There is an RB300 on eBay at the moment £150.00, not cheap but an excelent arm on which many OEM offerings are based, I personaly use one of the said OEM offereings to which I have made some 'simple non standard tweeks which cost only pennies' to vastly improve its performance.

The economic way to handle this is swap arms, keep the curent arm then when you sell the P1 on swap the original arm back. Hang on to the RB300, if required use it again on the new purchase, or if the upgrade comes with a halfway decent arm that you like? Sell on the RB300 and recoup some cash. Obviously this option is relient on the geometary and fixing, with respect, assuming you do not have the skills to modify the fixing?

CJS

I don't think the RB300 arm will fit on the Planar 1 which has Regas three-point mount. Could be wrong.

 

[CJSF]

There is an RB300 on eBay at the moment £150.00, not cheap but an excelent arm on which many OEM offerings are based, I personaly use one of the said OEM offereings to which I have made some 'simple non standard tweeks which cost only pennies' to vastly improve its performance.

The economic way to handle this is swap arms, keep the curent arm then when you sell the P1 on swap the original arm back. Hang on to the RB300, if required use it again on the new purchase, or if the upgrade comes with a halfway decent arm that you like? Sell on the RB300 and recoup some cash. Obviously this option is relient on the geometary and fixing, with respect, assuming you do not have the skills to modify the fixing?

CJS

I don't think the RB300 arm will fit on the Planar 1 which has Regas three-point mount. Could be wrong.

I believe you are correct Al ears, however my P5 came with a 3 point fixing RB300, I still have the spacers for arm height adjustment . . . indeed, I still have the RB300 . . . somewhere in my pile of boxes? However, the retro arm I eventualy fitted did fit the hole as a single nut fiting. I believe the hole should be 23mm although my memory is fadding these days and I would not stake my life one it?

I'm sure there must be someone out there who can clear this up?

CJS

 

[Al ears]

There is an RB300 on eBay at the moment £150.00, not cheap but an excelent arm on which many OEM offerings are based, I personaly use one of the said OEM offereings to which I have made some 'simple non standard tweeks which cost only pennies' to vastly improve its performance.

The economic way to handle this is swap arms, keep the curent arm then when you sell the P1 on swap the original arm back. Hang on to the RB300, if required use it again on the new purchase, or if the upgrade comes with a halfway decent arm that you like? Sell on the RB300 and recoup some cash. Obviously this option is relient on the geometary and fixing, with respect, assuming you do not have the skills to modify the fixing?

CJS

I don't think the RB300 arm will fit on the Planar 1 which has Regas three-point mount. Could be wrong.

I believe you are correct Al ears, however my P5 came with a 3 point fixing RB300, I still have the spacers for arm height adjustment . . . indeed, I still have the RB300 . . . somewhere in my pile of boxes? However, the retro arm I eventualy fitted did fit the hole as a single nut fiting. I believe the hole should be 23mm although my memory is fadding these days and I would not stake my life one it?

I'm sure there must be someone out there who can clear this up?

CJS

I don't doubt you CJ. I have never owned a three-point Rega. Cannot think why they would change that hole diameter though.

 

[chebby]

The original P5 tonearm was the RB700 (also fitted to the P7) and it had a 3 point mount ...

You can see the spacers that could be bought from Rega to raise the arm if using deeper cartridges. (A slimmer diameter tungsten counterweight could also be bought if raising the arm caused the standard version to foul the lid when closed.)

 

[CJSF]

The original P5 tonearm was the RB700 (also fitted to the P7) and it had a 3 point mount ...

You can see the spacers that could be bought from Rega to raise the arm if using deeper cartridges. (A slimmer diameter tungsten counterweight could also be bought if raising the arm caused the standard version to foul the lid when closed.)

Thanks for the confirmation Chebby, I new I was not dreaming. However I suspect they dont come up for sale very often, not sure to many people would have upgraded a P5, rather they would buy one of the new Rega breed? Pity realy as the P5 responds very well to OEM 'upgrade parts' as well as home made tweeks both to the TT and the OEM items.

For instance an OEM aluminium subplater, machined to the corect size, plastic standard units I belive were a fraction over size, puts a little more life into the music so they say? That surly should come from the cartridge . . . The standard plastic sub plater can be damped to good efect but dont over do it. OEM sub's can ring like a bell, one has worked out ways of damping the one I have and so it goes on, rubber feet for an interface between sub and main platers, even the number of feet is critical.

I dont know how much of this is aplicable or practical in the case of a P1, perhaps the OP will be inspired as he moves on through the upgrade process? Remembering, vast sums of money are not required to obtain top quality presentation talored ones own likes or dislikes.

CJS

 

[Al ears]

The original P5 tonearm was the RB700 (also fitted to the P7) and it had a 3 point mount ...

You can see the spacers that could be bought from Rega to raise the arm if using deeper cartridges. (A slimmer diameter tungsten counterweight could also be bought if raising the arm caused the standard version to foul the lid when closed.)

Thanks for the confirmation Chebby, I new I was not dreaming. However I suspect they dont come up for sale very often, not sure to many people would have upgraded a P5, rather they would buy one of the new Rega breed? Pity realy as the P5 responds very well to OEM 'upgrade parts' as well as home made tweeks both to the TT and the OEM items.

For instance an OEM aluminium subplater, machined to the corect size, plastic standard units I belive were a fraction over size, puts a little more life into the music so they say? That surly should come from the cartridge . . . The standard plastic sub plater can be damped to good efect but dont over do it. OEM sub's can ring like a bell, one has worked out ways of damping the one I have and so it goes on, rubber feet for an interface between sub and main platers, even the number of feet is critical.

I dont know how much of this is aplicable or practical in the case of a P1, perhaps the OP will be inspired as he moves on through the upgrade process? Remembering, vast sums of money are not required to obtain top quality presentation talored ones own likes or dislikes.

CJS

I know you have had some success with your tweaks and mods but the OP has obviously bought this deck with financial restrains in place. As it stands it is a perfectly acceptable entry-level deck, as long as you are happy with it as it is sold. Any further outlay in an attempt to upgrade this deck would be an error in my view and I don't think this is what the OP had planned. He was simply trying to upgrade by adding a better cartridge, and look where that has got him.

It is quite obvious, from what I am reading into this (dont have an Planar 1 in front of me), that Paul Darwins' statement that 'The RB110 is perfectly capable of taking any Rega cartridge and any other cartridge for that matter' is erroneous at worst or misleading at best because you cannot apparently make adjustments to the anti-skate which would almost certainly be required if you made such a cartridge change.

 

[paul darwin]

Al Ears,

Thanks again for your valuable contribution. However my statement is neither deliberately erroneous or misleading.

The Planar 1 is, by definition, an entry level turntable and arm combination and some minor compromises are likely.

Given that all Rega cartridges and, for that matter, the vast majority of other modern cartridges track at a suggested 1.75g or pretty adjacent then the anti skate is set at that to match accordingly.

Also, from a purely technical perspective the value of anti skate would vary across the playing of an LP side so it is not inappropriate to take an average reading / setting.

PD

 

[nopiano]

Paul, what are your views on Priam's dilemma with products supplied by Amazon but not fully compatible. Will your local dealer help?

 

[paul darwin]

Nopiano,

We have been in contact with the local Thai dealer who is helping Priam with his "problem", however we would always suggest that it is appropriate to use your local dealer for any transaction and support and "caveat emptor" might well be applied in this case as the rules of engagement appear to change on a daily / hourly basis. But, I think it entirely appropriate for us to remind our dealers, who choose to use Amazon for the few products that we allow to be distance sold, that it is their responsibility ultimately to ensure the complete satisfaction of the end user and remind them that products cannot be sold into territories where we have existing distribution.

PD

 

[chebby]

The cost of a Rega Planar 1 is 25,864 Baht in Thailand, or £593 ...

clicky (and that’s a ‘promotional’ price!) also no warranty offered.

Now I can understand why you’d want to buy from Amazon UK for £248.

However this is the flipside ... no local support, free under warranty, from an approved Rega specialist.

 

[priam]

I bought the Rega using Amazon.co.uk, then I moved to Bangkok. BTW, we ARE changing the anti-skate, some magnetic thing under the tonearm. He says it's working brilliantly. It's also the only part of the equation that when adjusted makes a difference. But, he's also trying to find an RB101 to replace my tonearm (my preferred method). So that I have some sort of control over anti-skate. 3 weeks at the dealership really puts things into perspective.

I understand that many of you would have preferred if I bought a new second hand deck, but Bangkok doesn't really have a strong turntable scene. So the tonearm replacement option makes a lot of sense to me, and as some of you point out, may allow for further modifications.