Rega Brio-R and ATC SCM7 - a mismatch?

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi,

both bits of kit have excellent reviews seperately, I'd love to hear them together in my lounge but I'm worried about the speakers' relatively low sensitivity (84 dB) and their power handling (50-300W) contrasted with the amp's moderate 50W per channel. :? What does it mean in practice? Do these speakers require a more powerful amp to realise their full potential? Thanks in advance for any comments. I'm so keen to build a reasonably priced system around them...

Hi vikhund

What is your maximum budget for an amplifier?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[BenLaw]

As neither of us have heard the combo Ben, we could seek the advice of a dealer who has, and who probably has many millions of clients across the universe that are quite happily using that combination. Can you suggest anyone Ben?

I reckon that in other parts of the universe they use electrostatics, but I could be wrong

 

[BenLaw]

atc 11 ,great speaker to a point , but not what i would call a true all rounder , the debate continuies ,

Given how neutral the speaker is, it's more likely to be the amp/source (in a given set up) that isn't an all rounder....but don't let me stop you giving this thread the occasional stir, to see what happens.

+ 1 x 2

 

[MUSICRAFT]

If you want volume, you'll need as much power as you can give the SCM11's, but it's really down to whether an amplifier can control a loudspeaker, which isn't a volume dependent quality. It's the amplifier's job to tell the speakers what to do. It needs full control over the drive units. If an amplifier isn't in control of a speaker, bass notes become 'blurred', and you end you with a soft, dull bass that lacks punch and definition. Bass notes should be well defined, with no overhang, and kick drums should be punchy (not bassy, punchy) and should stand out from the bassline. The more an amplifier has to work to control a speaker, the harder it works trying to give a demanding speaker all the current it needs, and the more strained it will sound. If an amplifier doesn't sound effortless, it can end up sounding compressed, lacking in dynamics, and you could end up with a hard edge to the treble, making it an uncomfortable listen. As most amplifiers are kicking out their maximum at about the 12 o'clock position on the volume dial, if you're using your amplifier between the 11 and 12 position, you could very well be demanding a little too much from your amplifier. I've been a little too busy to try that particular combination yet vikhund, but I'll give them a good testing some time next week and post up my findings. it'll be interesting, as I've not really found any amplifier below an Audiolab 8200A that can drive them to my requirements. But one thing I will say, is that there is no amplifier under £1,000 that will make the SCM11's 'realise their full potential'. The most ideal "budget" system I would use with them would be the Audiolab 8200CDQ CD/pre and 8200P power amp.

What source component/s, amplification and speaker cables were KEF using to demonstrate the R300's, R500's and the Blade at the Manchester Show last weekend?

 

[Anonymous]

If you want volume, you'll need as much power as you can give the SCM11's, but it's really down to whether an amplifier can control a loudspeaker, which isn't a volume dependent quality. It's the amplifier's job to tell the speakers what to do. It needs full control over the drive units. If an amplifier isn't in control of a speaker, bass notes become 'blurred', and you end you with a soft, dull bass that lacks punch and definition. Bass notes should be well defined, with no overhang, and kick drums should be punchy (not bassy, punchy) and should stand out from the bassline. The more an amplifier has to work to control a speaker, the harder it works trying to give a demanding speaker all the current it needs, and the more strained it will sound. If an amplifier doesn't sound effortless, it can end up sounding compressed, lacking in dynamics, and you could end up with a hard edge to the treble, making it an uncomfortable listen. As most amplifiers are kicking out their maximum at about the 12 o'clock position on the volume dial, if you're using your amplifier between the 11 and 12 position, you could very well be demanding a little too much from your amplifier. I've been a little too busy to try that particular combination yet vikhund, but I'll give them a good testing some time next week and post up my findings. it'll be interesting, as I've not really found any amplifier below an Audiolab 8200A that can drive them to my requirements. But one thing I will say, is that there is no amplifier under £1,000 that will make the SCM11's 'realise their full potential'. The most ideal "budget" system I would use with them would be the Audiolab 8200CDQ CD/pre and 8200P power amp.

What source component/s, amplification and speaker cables were KEF using to demonstrate the R300's, R500's and the Blade at the Manchester Show last weekend?

Sacre bleu, Baston,baston ! :bounce:

 

[Anonymous]

FrankHarveyHiFi, I'm looking forward to your findings, but it' SCM7s that I'm after not 11s. I fear the strain you talk about. I'm afraid the amp would put too much effort and this could be heard in the way the speakers deliverd the sound.

 

[matthewpiano]

If you want volume, you'll need as much power as you can give the SCM11's, but it's really down to whether an amplifier can control a loudspeaker, which isn't a volume dependent quality. It's the amplifier's job to tell the speakers what to do. It needs full control over the drive units. If an amplifier isn't in control of a speaker, bass notes become 'blurred', and you end you with a soft, dull bass that lacks punch and definition. Bass notes should be well defined, with no overhang, and kick drums should be punchy (not bassy, punchy) and should stand out from the bassline. The more an amplifier has to work to control a speaker, the harder it works trying to give a demanding speaker all the current it needs, and the more strained it will sound. If an amplifier doesn't sound effortless, it can end up sounding compressed, lacking in dynamics, and you could end up with a hard edge to the treble, making it an uncomfortable listen. As most amplifiers are kicking out their maximum at about the 12 o'clock position on the volume dial, if you're using your amplifier between the 11 and 12 position, you could very well be demanding a little too much from your amplifier. I've been a little too busy to try that particular combination yet vikhund, but I'll give them a good testing some time next week and post up my findings. it'll be interesting, as I've not really found any amplifier below an Audiolab 8200A that can drive them to my requirements. But one thing I will say, is that there is no amplifier under £1,000 that will make the SCM11's 'realise their full potential'. The most ideal "budget" system I would use with them would be the Audiolab 8200CDQ CD/pre and 8200P power amp.

What source component/s, amplification and speaker cables were KEF using to demonstrate the R300's, R500's and the Blade at the Manchester Show last weekend?

Not sure about the cables or exact models, but the electronics were Electrocompaniet with the exception of a big Denon disc spinner. Looked like they were using Electrocompaniet monoblocks for the Blades with the same brand of pre-amp and the Denon disc spinner, and then an Electrocompaniet CD player and possibly less 'huge' Electrocompaniet amplification for the R series.

 

[Anonymous]

BenLaw, you're absolutely right. I hear these speakers are 'transparent' for the amp. What I (probably ) meant is I'd like them to sound so good 'cos the amp is good enough to show they can, if that makes any sense.

 

[Anonymous]

Rick,

my original plan was to skimp a little on either an amp or the speakers, live with with the combo for a while and than expreriment with more expensive kit.

Let's say my budget for an amp is £600, there's not much choice at this price point so I'll most likely choose Rega. With Rega I might be tempted to venture into the realm of vinyl in the future and I like the idea. So, let me rephrase the question: which standmounts for about £600 would you recommend for Rega, to play with and replace (if necessary) in the future?

Some speakers I've been looking at: Dynaudio DM 2/7, MA RX2 and Epos Epic 2 or even B&W CM1.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Hi Vikhund

I'm not at work today, but I'll give the combo a good testing probably Wednesday (I'll be catching up on a weekend's worth of work tomorrow!), and let you know what I think. For normal and low level listening, the Brio R will drive them, but it'll be down to how well the little Brio can control them at this level.

 

[mykspence]

I'm not at work today, but I'll give the combo a good testing probably Wednesday and let you know what I think.

Did this ever happen, I've done a search but can't find anything.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Rick,

my original plan was to skimp a little on either an amp or the speakers, live with with the combo for a while and than expreriment with more expensive kit.

Let's say my budget for an amp is £600, there's not much choice at this price point so I'll most likely choose Rega. With Rega I might be tempted to venture into the realm of vinyl in the future and I like the idea. So, let me rephrase the question: which standmounts for about £600 would you recommend for Rega, to play with and replace (if necessary) in the future?

Some speakers I've been looking at: Dynaudio DM 2/7, MA RX2 and Epos Epic 2 or even B&W CM1.

Hi vikhund

I am sorry for having missed your reply .

Monitor Audio Silver RX1's, Dynaudio DM 2/6's and Rega RS1's are also worth a look as i've found these speakers to work well with the Brio R amplifier.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi mykspence

Since this thread has come up i've had a Chord Electronics QBD76 DAC > Rega Brio R amplifier > ATC SCM7 monitors playing since 1pm at low, moderate and high levels. The system has been on now for nearly four hours and the Brio R has coped with SCM7 monitors admirably.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[mykspence]

Thank you Rick, in your opinion would the 11's be a step too far?

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Thank you Rick, in your opinion would the 11's be a step too far?

Hi mykspence

Your welcome.

I'd be grateful if you could help with the following please -

What source component/s, amplifier, speakers and cabling do you use or are looking at?

What do you generally listen to?

The size of your room?

Your general listening level?

Your listening distance?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[mykspence]

I'd be grateful if you could help with the following please -

What source component/s, amplifier, speakers and cabling do you use or are looking at?

What do you generally listen to?

The size of your room?

Your general listening level?

Your listening distance?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Currently Sonos - Brio R - QED XT - Rega EL8

Listen to most stuff except rap, ie Queen, James Taylor, Rihanna, Adele.

Room 3m x 6m speakers on 3m wall and I listen from about 3m at above average volume.

I plan to change the speakers and then add a Rega DAC if it improves things.

Thanks.

Sorry if this is trashing the thread, happy to move it if needed?

 

[hoopsontoast]

Have you heard any of the current Rega speakers? As big of a fan of both the Rega and ATC ranges, they do have very different presentations. The rega's tend to be a little more open and lively (the R1 and R3) with very tight, punchy but not that extended bass. The ATC's are a little 'darker' in their presentation (SCM7), with rock solid imaging and tight and extended bass for their size.

I would find it a hard call to go for the SCM7 over the R3 (or RS3) as I think the RS3 may be a better match for the Brio-R. I know its an all new design, but I briefly tried the Brio3 with some SCM10's and it really did not work at all.

 

[mykspence]

I haven't heard current Rega speakers or ATC's. My room limitations suggest to me that I'd be better off with a standmount speaker that can sit close to a wall, the side mounted driver in the floorstanding Rega concerns me within the confines of my room. From what I've read the ATC would give me more clout than the RS1.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

I'd be grateful if you could help with the following please -

What source component/s, amplifier, speakers and cabling do you use or are looking at?

What do you generally listen to?

The size of your room?

Your general listening level?

Your listening distance?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Currently Sonos - Brio R - QED XT - Rega EL8

Listen to most stuff except rap, ie Queen, James Taylor, Rihanna, Adele.

Room 3m x 6m speakers on 3m wall and I listen from about 3m at above average volume.

I plan to change the speakers and then add a Rega DAC if it improves things.

Thanks.

Sorry if this is trashing the thread, happy to move it if needed?

Hi mykspence

Thanks for your reply.

SCM11 monitors are capable of offering much greater levels of performance then SCM7's. The Brio R has got sufficient quality and quantity of power (as long as you're not after constant disco like levels) to be used with SCM11's.

I find RS1's, SCM7's and SCM11's work well close to walls. Having said this i'll recommend that you try all three models with your components and preferably in your room.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[drummerman]

If you want a high power amplifier that is probably as good as the Brio (or most other solid state amps) up to their respective power ratings you could consider one of the newer, better AV Receivers at £500 or Teac's AR650 at half the price if you'd rather have a stereo amplifier.

Although manufacturer quoted at 90W/8ohm ch the latter was measured in one magazine at over 120W/8ohm ch and 210W/4ohm ch. Distortion and Noise figures as well as power rating were almost indistinguishable from Creeks Destiny 2, measured and reviewed in the same issue. A £1200 integrated amplifier.

Although the reviewer didnt compare them with each other there is no reason or measurement to suggest that either one is better than the other! - A quarter of the price should make it easier to choose though.

The Teac is half the price of the Brio with more than double the power. An AV receiver costs the same as the Brio but has added facilities and again, substantially more power. -- Both are most probably better value and more versatile with regards to speaker choice!

This is not to take anything away from Rega, an innovative albeit small company. Economy of scale can make a huge difference in what you get.

regards

 

[mykspence]

Thanks Rick, it's nice to know that the Brio is man enough.

 

[Sizzers]

Economy of scale can make a huge difference in what you get.

regards

That's true.

My Brio is half-size, and boy, what does it deliver!

 

[drummerman]

Economy of scale can make a huge difference in what you get.

regards

That's true.

My Brio is half-size, and boy, what does it deliver!

I am sure it is a decent amplifier

regards

 

[Sizzers]

Economy of scale can make a huge difference in what you get.

regards

That's true.

My Brio is half-size, and boy, what does it deliver!

I am sure it is a decent amplifier

regards

Was meant tongue in cheek but couldn't resist! (still true though! lol)

 

[Anonymous]

I haven't heard current Rega speakers or ATC's. My room limitations suggest to me that I'd be better off with a standmount speaker that can sit close to a wall, the side mounted driver in the floorstanding Rega concerns me within the confines of my room. From what I've read the ATC would give me more clout than the RS1.

Hi Mykspence, I have Rega RS3s and Brio-R and am very, very happy with their performance. The RS3s are front ported so can be positioned very flexibly including close to a rear wall and I have the side firing speakers facing inwards towards each other (in my case approx 3m apart but closer is fine also, depends where you sit). Worth a listen with the Brio-R before you discount them.