• If you ever spot Spam (either in the forums, or received via forum direct message) please use the Report button at the bottom of each post to make sure a Moderator can handle it quickly. Thanks for your help in keeping things running smoothly!

Rega brio or Cyrus one

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the What HiFi community: the world's leading independent guide to buying and owning hi-fi and home entertainment products.

Nelis87

Well-known member
Nov 24, 2014
24
2
10,520
QuestForThe13thNote said:
Which type of Dali Nelis?
Sorry I should have been more specific. Probably Zensor 3 or Opticon 2, maaaaybe Dynaudio Emit m20. Thank you for your previous post, they are very helpfull. Im leaning towards the Rega atm for a little more warmth at the cost of a more analytical listen.

Unfortunately I cant demo them both before March. And where I live (Netherlands) a Creek 50 costs a lot more than those two (about €300 more).
 

bigfish786

Moderator
Jan 29, 2013
333
159
19,070
Is there any particular reason why you are looking at half width amps?

They are not to my taste, just wondered what your thought process was, and if you’d looked at Leema Elements? As they are half width too.
 
Q

QuestForThe13thNote

Guest
Nelis87 said:
QuestForThe13thNote said:
Which type of Dali Nelis?
Sorry I should have been more specific. Probably Zensor 3 or Opticon 2, maaaaybe Dynaudio Emit m20. Thank you for your previous post, they are very helpfull. Im leaning towards the Rega atm for a little more warmth at the cost of a more analytical listen.

Unfortunately I cant demo them both before March. And where I live (Netherlands) a Creek 50 costs a lot more than those two (about €300 more).
its always a balance. The cyrus is I think a better amp on my previous explanation. I’d hear the cyrus one with a rega brio on a more warmer pair of speakers to Dali which at those prices are all tuned to be hiked up in high frequencies to impress buyers. With a warmer speaker you’ll get the detail too, with the power and everything else, not at the cost of warmth. I’d be thinking something like atc stand mounts perhaps, spendor, ProAc etc, if you can get a real good deal on some. But if you do go dali, which wouldn’t be my choice at all, I can see why you are going for rega for your preference.

I’d be cautious of the elements range as they aren’t as well reverred as rega or cyrus and some reviews are appalling. The best leema amps are the full width types.
 
Q

QuestForThe13thNote

Guest
Nelis87 said:
QuestForThe13thNote said:
Which type of Dali Nelis?
Sorry I should have been more specific. Probably Zensor 3 or Opticon 2, maaaaybe Dynaudio Emit m20. Thank you for your previous post, they are very helpfull. Im leaning towards the Rega atm for a little more warmth at the cost of a more analytical listen.

Unfortunately I cant demo them both before March. And where I live (Netherlands) a Creek 50 costs a lot more than those two (about €300 more).
its always a balance. The cyrus is I think a better amp on my previous explanation. I’d hear the cyrus one with a rega brio on a more warmer pair of speakers to Dali which at those prices are all tuned to be hiked up in high frequencies to impress buyers. With a warmer speaker you’ll get the detail too, with the power and everything else, not at the cost of warmth. I’d be thinking something like atc stand mounts perhaps, spendor, ProAc etc, if you can get a real good deal on some. But if you do go dali, which wouldn’t be my choice at all, I can see why you are going for rega for your preference.

I’d be cautious of the elements range as they aren’t as well reverred as rega or cyrus and some reviews are appalling. The best leema amps are the full width types.
 

MajorFubar

New member
Mar 3, 2010
690
3
0
Nelis87 said:
Where did I say I have narrowed it down to two?

....E: dont want to sound rude, just stop making assumptions.
Err...when you started a thread with the title 'Rega Brio or Cyrus One'.

Everyone answering any question posted on here has to make assumpions about the asker to some degree, or else no-one would ever be able to help anybody. You wouldn't have been the first person who thought fellow contributors could offer divine guidance regarding which source / amp / speakers they were going to prefer from a choice already narrowed down to two or three, and you certainly wouldn't have been the last.

Enjoy your auditioning.
 
Q

QuestForThe13thNote

Guest
He didn’t say he had narrowed it down and you can’t assume that from first post - he just wanted to know which was best and if anyone had done a comparison that why I mentioned hearing them both in a show. but equally nelis you could have put that differently about stop making assumptions.
 

Vladimir

New member
Dec 26, 2013
220
4
0
drummerman said:
Worth pointing out that the Cyrus's topology allows for very little dynamic headroom. Although the Brio is less powerful it will make, to some extend, up for that.
Can you elaborate more on this, or link reading goodies? Thanks.
 

drummerman

New member
Jan 18, 2008
540
1
0
Class D circuits usually almost double power into lower loads but have little or no dynamic headroom.

A or AB (usually) have dynamic headroom for short peak signals.

So if the Rega has a continuous 50 watts into 8 8ohm it may be able to supply 80 watts at short intervals of 5 or 10 ms. - Musical demands on peak signals are rare to exceed short periods.

The Cyrus may has higher continuous power at maybe 70 or therabout watts into an 8 ohm load but with little additional power available for peak musical signals.

Simply on specs I would possibly expect the Cyrus to sound less dynamic but slightly louder near full output (1db or so) into an average 6ohm load than the Rega. - This seems to somewhat corelate with Reviews of the two, at least the couple I've seen. The Cyrus was criticised for lacking a little in dynamics but sounding authorative and loud, the Rega for sounding vivid and 'warm' with a bit of lack of grip.

I am generalizing here. Not all Class D (or A/B) amps are the same and I couldn't find much data or measurements on the Cyrus ONE.

Size of transformers look almost identical between the two. Supply capacitance is 6,600uf/rail in the Cyrus and 10,000uf/rail in the Rega of what I could see.

The Cyrus is slightly more load tolerant with difficult to drive speakers. - However it could also have altered frequency response into differing loads as some class D designs do.

Neither will likely excert 'iron' grip on speakers used. Both are probably best used with easier load speakers.

I would just listen to both with speakers owned :)

I have not looked at the data sheets and happy to be proven wrong.
 
Q

QuestForThe13thNote

Guest
Based on hearing the amps as I say, i have to say the cyrus class d is no slouch in the dynamics department comparative to similar power class ab. Eg stereo 200 v mono x200 signature. Just to understand you drummerman, why do you say the cyrus doesn’t have available peak power above continuous. At the end of the day the listening test is what you go on, as you say, but from a academic debate this might be another one of those occasions where reality in the design etc contrasts with theoretical considerations on how class d should perform.
 
Q

QuestForThe13thNote

Guest
I respect you for having that view because you are open minded enough to realise it can be based or changed on listening too, as your post says. But what does do my head in on this forum is when people start saying x is definetely not as good, have never actually heard the amp, and are set in their ways eg otco. Nobody really knows until you’ve put the two amps side by side is the honest answer.
 

drummerman

New member
Jan 18, 2008
540
1
0
QuestForThe13thNote said:
Based on hearing the amps as I say, i have to say the cyrus class d is no slouch in the dynamics department comparative to similar power class ab. Eg stereo 200 v mono x200 signature. Just to understand you drummerman, why do you say the cyrus doesn’t have available peak power above continuous. At the end of the day the listening test is what you go on, as you say, but from a academic debate this might be another one of those occasions where reality in the design etc contrasts with theoretical considerations on how class d should perform. 
Quite possibly.

Purely theoretical based on my far from perfect technical
Knowledge and on limited information available.

Furthermore I have not heard either amplifier.

Still, it may kind of explains certain reviews.

Then again, maybe it doesn't :)
 

drummerman

New member
Jan 18, 2008
540
1
0
Agree.

If my theory was somewhat correct I would also expect the Cyrus to sound as or nearly as dynamic at lower levels where larger musical peaks do not exceed its short term power capability.

As most of us do not listen continuously at max volume my previous twaddle on topology may not be relevant to the user anyway and it could explain differing user experiences.

I love forums :)
 

insider9

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2016
859
404
5,270
QuestForThe13thNote said:
I respect you for having that view because you are open minded enough to realise it can be based or changed on listening too, as your post says. But what does do my head in on this forum is when people start saying x is definetely not as good, have never actually heard the amp, and are set in their ways eg otco. Nobody really knows until you’ve put the two amps side by side is the honest answer. 
Don't you say you've not heard them side by side?
 
Q

QuestForThe13thNote

Guest
insider9 said:
QuestForThe13thNote said:
I respect you for having that view because you are open minded enough to realise it can be based or changed on listening too, as your post says. But what does do my head in on this forum is when people start saying x is definetely not as good, have never actually heard the amp, and are set in their ways eg otco. Nobody really knows until you’ve put the two amps side by side is the honest answer.
Don't you say you've not heard them side by side?
whats the point insider?
 

insider9

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2016
859
404
5,270
The point is if like you say the comparison was done in different systems/rooms it will be difficult to associate specific sonic traits with amps alone. How could you tell what's contributed by source/amp/cables/speakers/room unless you do a side by side of one component or know all the other components and the room well?
 
Q

QuestForThe13thNote

Guest
What comparison, whose?

If you are implying I was making a comparison between the two rooms at the show I mentioned, with these two amps on different speakers, that’s not the case. My point was to simply draw the point the rega was very good I thought and so too was the cyrus. And also the cyrus was driving very big speakers.

I said that I think the cyrus is probably the better of the two on the mini review I did, with its spec, design and power, and my view of cyrus class d. But ultimately I said it depends on an an a to b test with the same speakers, which would have to be in the same room, naturally.
 

insider9

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2016
859
404
5,270
QuestForThe13thNote said:
What comparison, whose?

If you are implying I was making a comparison between the two rooms at the show I mentioned, with these two amps on different speakers, that’s not the case. My point was to simply draw the point the rega was very good I thought and so too was the cyrus. And also the cyrus was driving very big speakers. 

I said that I think the cyrus is probably the better of the two on the mini review I did, with its spec, design and power, and my view of cyrus class d. But ultimately I said it depends on an an a to b test with the same speakers, which would have to be in the same room, naturally. 
That clears it up nicely. Thanks for explanation.
 

Vladimir

New member
Dec 26, 2013
220
4
0
drummerman said:
Class D circuits usually almost double power into lower loads but have little or no dynamic headroom.

...
That is interesting. You've given me good base to research more indepth.

Thanks again.
 

drummerman

New member
Jan 18, 2008
540
1
0
Vladimir said:
drummerman said:
Class D circuits usually almost double power into lower loads but have little or no dynamic headroom.

...
That is interesting. You've given me good base to research more indepth.

Thanks again.
Its unlikely to be the same with all implementations. Hypex may differ from others too.

I didn't do much research and simply recall some of PM's bench tests.

Let us know what you find.
 

Vladimir

New member
Dec 26, 2013
220
4
0
drummerman said:
Vladimir said:
drummerman said:
Class D circuits usually almost double power into lower loads but have little or no dynamic headroom.

...
That is interesting. You've given me good base to research more indepth.

Thanks again.
Its unlikely to be the same with all implementations. Hypex may differ from others too.

I didn't do much research and simply recall some of PM's bench tests.

Let us know what you find.
I look at class D amps with SMPS and I don't know what I'm looking at. I'm complete blank on most things Class D so I'll have to get myself updated. Then I can mingle with the new cool kids.
 

drummerman

New member
Jan 18, 2008
540
1
0
Vladimir said:
drummerman said:
Vladimir said:
drummerman said:
Class D circuits usually almost double power into lower loads but have little or no dynamic headroom.

...
That is interesting. You've given me good base to research more indepth.

Thanks again.
Its unlikely to be the same with all implementations. Hypex may differ from others too.

I didn't do much research and simply recall some of PM's bench tests.

Let us know what you find.
I look at class D amps with SMPS and I don't know what I'm looking at. I'm complete blank on most things Class D so I'll have to get myself updated. Then I can mingle with the new cool kids.
I've never knowingly used one at home! (Apart from my phone, laptop and TV which may/probably use similar)
 

nopiano

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2009
614
381
19,270
Vladimir said:
drummerman said:
Vladimir said:
drummerman said:
Class D circuits usually almost double power into lower loads but have little or no dynamic headroom.

...
That is interesting. You've given me good base to research more indepth.

Thanks again.
Its unlikely to be the same with all implementations. Hypex may differ from others too.

I didn't do much research and simply recall some of PM's bench tests.

Let us know what you find.
I look at class D amps with SMPS and I don't know what I'm looking at. I'm complete blank on most things Class D so I'll have to get myself updated. Then I can mingle with the new cool kids.
You might be interested in this review. It pretty much represents class D state of the art. Although hugely powerful, there are some recognisable traits, as the dynamic power isn’t so much more than the steady state. Have to say, I can’t detect anything like that in listening to my far more modest amp!

https://www.mola-mola.nl/readmore/review-read.pdf
 

newlash09

Well-known member
Aug 28, 2015
219
45
10,820
QuestForThe13thNote said:
Ok so I changed my mind. That didn’t take long...

The Rega Brio is a common but good class a or ab type amp it looks like with what looks like a fairly standard spec compared to the cyrus. Contrary to what was said in this thread, the cyrus is much more powerful. At 6 ohm type loads the rega outputs around 60 Watts per channel whereas the cyrus outputs 100 Watts, so it’s nearly double the power. Presumably the less heat the amp produces equates to even more efficiency so there is no doubt the cyrus is more powerful.

the cyrus uses class d amplification which is much more efficient and the case won’t get hot, but class d can to some tastes produce an undesirable sharp sound quality, compared to traditionally considered smoother class a amplification. It will very much depend on the speakers and the combination of course (smooth speakers with class d may work to some tastes eg cyrus stereo 200 and pmc 20-23) .

Whereas the rega states it has a few power supplies in its description, the cyrus has 11 separate power supplies to “maximise separation to different circuits”.

In addition to the moving magnet phono stage and headphone amp which both amps have, the cyrus has Bluetooth. Whilst not required by the op, it could be used in the future. Also the cyrus has dual binding posts for potential bi wire or bi amp applications if your speakers suit, depending on your views of bi wiring and amping. In addition the cyrus has pre outs for connecting up a future power amplifier if you want to upgrade in the future. Cyrus’ r and d manager David Marato hinted at a recent roadshow I went to of a new component to partner the one being in the pipeline, and it’s conceivable that they may make further components like streamers etc, in the ‘one’ affordable range. I suspect the one case is going to be the new cyrus case accross the board. the rega doesn’t have pre outs so it’s upgradeability is limited. There is also a firmware upgrade socket in the one for new features being added. Both have headphone sockets with an ab headphone amp I think, and both are at a similar price. The cyrus has a linear power supply.

I know that the cyrus one uses speaker impedance matching as apparently it’s difficult for class d amplifiers to produce the same frequency response to speakers of different impedance. So when you switch the one on it detects the speakers impedance and varies the signal accordingly.

Now onto sound, I heard the Brio on some spendors at a show and it was working very well, but the cyrus one was working with very big speakers and really coping well too. Clearly the demo was to show off how good class d can work with driving bigger and more demanding speakers. Now I must admit I haven’t heard the amps side by side with the same speakers, but on paper at least the cyrus appears much more capabale in sound quality and specification with it’s more efficient powerful amp. I know that they used the specification of the £1750 stereo 200 class d amp to develop the one, and the stereo 200 is a very nice amp. So not that I’m being brand loyal to cyrus just because I own their stuff, but I would expect the cyrus to beat the rega. More power gives more room for clarity, and the dynamic shifts of the music too making it more real. Also imaging and soundstage - a bigger sound.

which got me thinking, why have what hi rated the cyrus one with less dynamics than the Brio in their review, when on paper the cyrus is much more powerful and the cyrus class d is very much more dynamic than cyrus basic ab amps like the x power. That’s a comment I’d be checking out in comparative tests of the Brio and cyrus one if I had these on my list. Whilst what hi speaker reviews are more often than not bang on the money, their amp reviews are sometimes not but I geuss it’s much harder to get it right for amps, bearing in mind speakers mostly ‘do the most of the sound’ and the issues with compatibility.

But at the end of the day all that said, much comes down to taste and essentially the speakers being used. But I’d urge anyone comparing these two, to have a listen to things like clarity and dynamics, and soundstage etc, and buy on the qualities of the sound and not first impressions. To me bearing in mind the specs and performance, with the right speakers that suited both amps, I’m sure the cyrus would win in a comparative test against the Brio
If nothing else piqued my interest in cyrus gear, your above detailed post was convincing enough for me. Great detail quest....a very nice read indeed...thanks
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts