Receiver and stereo amplifier

[dcdraghici]

Hello! I recently read Tom Parson's article about combining a stereo integrated amp or receiver into an AV system to get the best of both worlds:

https://www.whathifi.com/us/advice/...and-surround-sound-in-one-brilliant-av-system

My question is: What partner would be best for the Yamaha RX A3080? A stereo amplifier (Yamaha MX1) or an integrated amplifier (Yamaha AS1100). I have to mention that I will not use a CD player as a source, only a HiFi streamer (eventually incorporating the MusicCast service).

To be more precise, I want to know if the MusicCast service incorporated in the 3080 receiver (using the ESS SabrePRO 32 bit DACs in pure direct mode) combined with the Yamaha MX1 amp is inferior to a RX A3080 + AS1100 + Yamaha NP 303?

Thank you very much!

 

[plastic penguin]

Hello! I recently read Tom Parson's article about combining a stereo integrated amp or receiver into an AV system to get the best of both worlds:

https://www.whathifi.com/us/advice/...and-surround-sound-in-one-brilliant-av-system

My question is: What partner would be best for the Yamaha RX A3080? A stereo amplifier (Yamaha MX1) or an integrated amplifier (Yamaha AS1100). I have to mention that I will not use a CD player as a source, only a HiFi streamer (eventually incorporating the MusicCast service).

To be more precise, I want to know if the MusicCast service incorporated in the 3080 receiver (using the ESS SabrePRO 32 bit DACs in pure direct mode) combined with the Yamaha MX1 amp is inferior to a RX A3080 + AS1100 + Yamaha NP 303?

Thank you very much!

Hiya and welcome.

I've not read that link. You need to prioritize whether multi-channel or dedicated 2 channel is your bag. IME a good multi-channel amp not a significant difference to a similar priced 2 channel amp.

All this does is take up more room, sucks up more money which could be better spent elsewhere.

This is just my opinion, but first decide if films or music takes the lead.

 

[shadders]

Hello! I recently read Tom Parson's article about combining a stereo integrated amp or receiver into an AV system to get the best of both worlds:

https://www.whathifi.com/us/advice/...and-surround-sound-in-one-brilliant-av-system

My question is: What partner would be best for the Yamaha RX A3080? A stereo amplifier (Yamaha MX1) or an integrated amplifier (Yamaha AS1100). I have to mention that I will not use a CD player as a source, only a HiFi streamer (eventually incorporating the MusicCast service).

To be more precise, I want to know if the MusicCast service incorporated in the 3080 receiver (using the ESS SabrePRO 32 bit DACs in pure direct mode) combined with the Yamaha MX1 amp is inferior to a RX A3080 + AS1100 + Yamaha NP 303?

Thank you very much!

HI,
I just had a quick glance at the Yamaha RX A3080 specification - and it is impressive. In 2 channel mode the maximum THD is <0.06% for 20Hz to 20kHz, at 150watts - this is a very good specification. It also uses the ESS Sabre DAC's which are some of the best you can obtain at the time.

Are you unhappy with the sound for 2 channel use ?

Has the internet myths that an AV amplifier is not as good as a stereo amplifier influenced you ?

You could be spending a lot of money for a power amplifier for very little gain, if any.

Regards,
Shadders.

 

[dcdraghici]

HI,
I just had a quick glance at the Yamaha RX A3080 specification - and it is impressive. In 2 channel mode the maximum THD is <0.06% for 20Hz to 20kHz, at 150watts - this is a very good specification. It also uses the ESS Sabre DAC's which are some of the best you can obtain at the time.

Are you unhappy with the sound for 2 channel use ?

Has the internet myths that an AV amplifier is not as good as a stereo amplifier influenced you ?

You could be spending a lot of money for a power amplifier for very little gain, if any.

Regards,
Shadders.

Hello!
I did not purchased the RX A3080 yet, but from my prevoius experiences with AV amplifiers (owning Yamaha AZ1, Onkyo TX-NR 3030) I can say that a stereo/integrated amplifier (owned NAD C162/C272, Yamaha CX1/MX1) sound different.
My question was about the preamplifier stage. Is it better in a integrated amplifier than in a RX A3080/MX1 (stereo amp).

Thank you for your advice and I'm waitin for new opinios!

 

[Al ears]

I cannot quite understand what that MX1 power amplifier would be doing in the system you suggest, can you explain?
Is it simply there to drive your front speakers?

 

[dcdraghici]

I cannot quite understand what that MX1 power amplifier would be doing in the system you suggest, can you explain?
Is it simply there to drive your front speakers?

The MX1 should be connected to the preouts of the RX A3080. The main benefit should be the better filtering (2x32000uF + 2x37000uF capacitors of the MX1) and more power.

 

[dcdraghici]

I cannot quite understand what that MX1 power amplifier would be doing in the system you suggest, can you explain?
Is it simply there to drive your front speakers?

The MX1 will, indeed, drive the front speakers.

 

[Al ears]

The MX1 should be connected to the preouts of the RX A3080. The main benefit should be the better filtering (2x32000uF + 2x37000uF capacitors of the MX1) and more power.

if you are doing that don't you need some sort of volume control on the amplifier itself?

 

[dcdraghici]

if you are doing that don't you need some sort of volume control on the amplifier itself?

The volume control will be handled by the RX A3080 (and the entire preamplification stage).

 

[shadders]

The volume control will be handled by the RX A3080 (and the entire preamplification stage).

Hi,
Ok- i thought you had the RX A3080 already.

It is difficult to mess up the design of a pre-amp, and i expect Yamaha with their decades of experience will implement a well engineered solution. Given that they have used the ESS DAC IC's for digital to analogue conversion, will mean you will be getting one of the best DAC IC's available.

It will be the power amplifier that defines the sound for stereo that you will hear. The RX A3080 power amp is more than adequate, but if you are set on using a separate power amplifier, then auditioning it may be preferred.

As an aside, if you look at the THD from a prea-mp it is usually negligible, and a power amplifier will add the most distortion to the signal compared to the pre-amp. It is easy to check the THD for separates such as pre-amps and power amps. If you compare the Cambridge Audio Azur Preamp has a 1kHz THD of <0.0004%, where as the same range power amp has a 1kHz THD of <0.001%.. The MX-1 is an old amplifier (circa 1995 ??) and from a review on the internet, the THD is 0.03% across the frequency range - which is quite good.

Regards,
Shadders.

 

[dcdraghici]

Hi,
Ok- i thought you had the RX A3080 already.

It is difficult to mess up the design of a pre-amp, and i expect Yamaha with their decades of experience will implement a well engineered solution. Given that they have used the ESS DAC IC's for digital to analogue conversion, will mean you will be getting one of the best DAC IC's available.

It will be the power amplifier that defines the sound for stereo that you will hear. The RX A3080 power amp is more than adequate, but if you are set on using a separate power amplifier, then auditioning it may be preferred.

As an aside, if you look at the THD from a prea-mp it is usually negligible, and a power amplifier will add the most distortion to the signal compared to the pre-amp. It is easy to check the THD for separates such as pre-amps and power amps. If you compare the Cambridge Audio Azur Preamp has a 1kHz THD of <0.0004%, where as the same range power amp has a 1kHz THD of <0.001%.. The MX-1 is an old amplifier (circa 1995 ??) and from a review on the internet, the THD is 0.03% across the frequency range - which is quite good.

Regards,
Shadders.

Thank you very much for your answer!

 

[Tinman1952]

The volume control will be handled by the RX A3080 (and the entire preamplification stage).

Don't understand why you would do this. The whole point of connecting a stereo amp to the pre outs of the AVR (for home cinema purposes) is to AVOID the AVR preamp for stereo music listening. Connecting your two channel sources to the stereo integrated directly and using just that device.
Don't be surprised if you cannot hear any difference however.....

 

[shadders]

Don't understand why you would do this. The whole point of connecting a stereo amp to the pre outs of the AVR (for home cinema purposes) is to AVOID the AVR preamp for stereo music listening. Connecting your two channel sources to the stereo integrated directly and using just that device.
Don't be surprised if you cannot hear any difference however.....

Hi,
Isn't the pre-amp outputs of the AVR actually the pre-amp output, so you avoid the power amp ?

The pre-amp outputs will be volume controlled in synchronisation with the surround outputs. Whether that volume control is DAC/DSP based or a physical potentiometer, there will still be an opamp based filter in the path. Generally a 2 stage opamp (uses 2 opamps).

Regards,
Shadders.

 

[Tinman1952]

Hi,
Isn't the pre-amp outputs of the AVR actually the pre-amp output, so you avoid the power amp ?

The pre-amp outputs will be volume controlled in synchronisation with the surround outputs. Whether that volume control is DAC/DSP based or a physical potentiometer, there will still be an opamp based filter in the path. Generally a 2 stage opamp (uses 2 opamps).

Regards,
Shadders.

Absolutely correct. But as I said the idea is that you connect your two channel music source directly to the stereo integrated to avoid the AVR preamp when listening to stereo music....🙂

 

[dcdraghici]

Absolutely correct. But as I said the idea is that you connect your two channel music source directly to the stereo integrated to avoid the AVR preamp when listening to stereo music....🙂

So, I have those two scenarios for stereo listening:
1) Yamaha RX A3080 + Yamaha MX1 power amp (source: TIDAL service with uncompressed audio files played directly from RX A3080)
2) Yamaha AS1100 amp (source: TIDAL service with uncompressed audio files played from Yamaha NP S 303).

Which one would be your choice?
Thank you, again!

 

[shadders]

Absolutely correct. But as I said the idea is that you connect your two channel music source directly to the stereo integrated to avoid the AVR preamp when listening to stereo music....🙂

Hi,
The quote is below :

The whole point of connecting a stereo amp to the pre outs of the AVR (for home cinema purposes) is to AVOID the AVR preamp for stereo music listening

Your statement above is incorrect. The pre-amp outputs can never avoid the AVR pre-amp section. What is connected to the pre-amp output is irrelevant, the pre-amp still controls/amplifies the DAC output.
Regards,
Shadders.

 

[Tinman1952]

So, I have those two scenarios for stereo listening:
1) Yamaha RX A3080 + Yamaha MX1 power amp (source: TIDAL service with uncompressed audio files played directly from RX A3080)
2) Yamaha AS1100 amp (source: TIDAL service with uncompressed audio files played from Yamaha NP S 303).

Which one would be your choice?
Thank you, again!

Well my personal opinion is that 1) is a waste of money as I doubt you would hear much difference by adding the MX1 to the excellent A3080.
2) would be my choice for stereo music listening. The AS1100 is a completely different order of excellence in design and build quality.....
as I said that's just MY personal opinion....you may hear differently! 🙂

 

[dcdraghici]

Hi,
The quote is below :

Your statement above is incorrect. The pre-amp outputs can never avoid the AVR pre-amp section. What is connected to the pre-amp output is irrelevant, the pre-amp still controls/amplifies the DAC output.
Regards,
Shadders.

IWhat Tinman said (If I got it right) is that when using multichannel for movies, ideed, the pre-amp of the AVR is used, controlling also the stereo amplifier conected with it's MAIN IN. But when listening to stereo the music souce should be directly conected to the inputs of the integrated amplifier, using the preamp of it. So the best solution would be RX A 3080 + Yamaha AS 1100 integrated amplifier.

 

[Tinman1952]

Hi,
The quote is below :

Your statement above is incorrect. The pre-amp outputs can never avoid the AVR pre-amp section. What is connected to the pre-amp output is irrelevant, the pre-amp still controls/amplifies the DAC output.
Regards,
Shadders.

I think we are at cross purposes....
If you read my post again carefully...I said 'for stereo music listening'. I.E. avoiding the AVR completely!

 

[Tinman1952]

IWhat Tinman said (If I got it right) is that when using multichannel for movies, ideed, the pre-amp of the AVR is used, controlling also the stereo amplifier conected with it's MAIN IN. But when listening to stereo the music souce should be directly conected to the inputs of the integrated amplifier, using the preamp of it. So the best solution would be RX A 3080 + Yamaha AS 1100 integrated amplifier.

Exactly.....🙂

 

[dcdraghici]

Well my personal opinion is that 1) is a waste of money as I doubt you would hear much difference by adding the MX1 to the excellent A3080.
2) would be my choice for stereo music listening. The AS1100 is a completely different order of excellence in design and build quality.....
as I said that's just MY personal opinion....you may hear differently! 🙂

Thank you very much!

 

[shadders]

I think we are at cross purposes....
If you read my post again carefully...I said 'for stereo music listening'. I.E. avoiding the AVR completely!

Hi,
I did read it carefully. You made no mention/statement of connecting a.n. other source to the integrated which was music listening only. You can still listen to stereo music via the AVR if connected digitally etc.

Regards,
Shadders.

 

[Tinman1952]

Hi,
I did read it carefully. You made no mention/statement of connecting a.n. other source to the integrated which was music listening only. You can still listen to stereo music via the AVR if connected digitally etc.

Regards,
Shadders.

Please read posts more carefully before reacting and jumping in with both feet.......🙄
Full quote:
"The whole point of connecting a stereo amp to the pre outs of the AVR (for home cinema purposes) is to AVOID the AVR preamp for stereo music listening. Connecting your two channel sources to the stereo integrated directly and using just that device."

 

[shadders]

Please read posts more carefully before reacting and jumping in with both feet.......🙄
Full quote:
"The whole point of connecting a stereo amp to the pre outs of the AVR (for home cinema purposes) is to AVOID the AVR preamp for stereo music listening. Connecting your two channel sources to the stereo integrated directly and using just that device."

Hi,
Agreed, that the later sentence does put it into context what you were inferring, yet the first sentence makes no sense. Although, some integrateds have connections direct to the power amp section.

Regards,
Shadders.

 

[Tinman1952]

Hi,
Agreed, that the later sentence does put it into context what you were inferring, yet the first sentence makes no sense. Although, some integrateds have connections direct to the power amp section.

Regards,
Shadders.

Makes perfect sense... the OP understood....
The 'AV' input where available on a stereo integrated does not avoid the pre amp stage (obviously) but bypasses the volume control.