The choice of rear speakers, in my opinion, is pretty poor. But why? Something small with a good wide spread of sound is all I really want. I have a pair of old missions that look okay but they don’t seem to produce much. Maybe satellites pointing down to the top of our heads might be better? What do other people do? What do you think?
Rear Speakers
- Thread starter timbo999
- Start date
macdiddy
Well-known member
the choice of what I call proper surround speakers (usually called bipole or dipole) where the drivers are mounted in a angled enclosure seem to be limited to a few companies. This is one reason I choose Monitor audio speakers for my home cinema setup, their Bronze FX rear speakers were quite reasonable at £250 a pair and sound great in my setup.
I have however seen proper surround speakers at prices around £1000 a pair and over, even if I had the budget, I don't think I could justify spending that amount.
However I have just read that Dolby recommends direct radiating speakers (normal surrounds) for Dolby Atmos setups so maybe I need to change my surrounds back to regular satelite speakers.
*music2*
I have however seen proper surround speakers at prices around £1000 a pair and over, even if I had the budget, I don't think I could justify spending that amount.
However I have just read that Dolby recommends direct radiating speakers (normal surrounds) for Dolby Atmos setups so maybe I need to change my surrounds back to regular satelite speakers.
*music2*
Technically any old pair of speakers will do.
Retailers will try and sell you a complete package, naturally, but the truth is that whilst I can give credence to hainv well-matched fronts and centre, the surround speakers don't matter as much because they're for effect rather than substance.
What I would say is that you should at least try to match the impedances (Ohms) wattage and sensitivity ratings of the speakers (dB/W/m) number) with your fronts, so that you're not putting asymmetric loading on your receiver.
The choice of which speakers you use is then up to you. I've had good experiences with bookshelf speakers, either on bookshelves, on stands or hung from nails in the wall, in-wall speakers, little surround speakers by Bose, etc. The on-wall speakers with their front baffles angled downwards are good if you want to mount the speakers high up on the walls, but otherwise are unnecessary.
One last point to remember is that you can always adjust the levels for the surrounds manually at your receiver. I usually set mine a fe dB higher than the EQ settings just so I can hear them properly. Also make sure you're watching a movie that actually has a lot of surround effects before you condemn your exisiting speakers.
Retailers will try and sell you a complete package, naturally, but the truth is that whilst I can give credence to hainv well-matched fronts and centre, the surround speakers don't matter as much because they're for effect rather than substance.
What I would say is that you should at least try to match the impedances (Ohms) wattage and sensitivity ratings of the speakers (dB/W/m) number) with your fronts, so that you're not putting asymmetric loading on your receiver.
The choice of which speakers you use is then up to you. I've had good experiences with bookshelf speakers, either on bookshelves, on stands or hung from nails in the wall, in-wall speakers, little surround speakers by Bose, etc. The on-wall speakers with their front baffles angled downwards are good if you want to mount the speakers high up on the walls, but otherwise are unnecessary.
One last point to remember is that you can always adjust the levels for the surrounds manually at your receiver. I usually set mine a fe dB higher than the EQ settings just so I can hear them properly. Also make sure you're watching a movie that actually has a lot of surround effects before you condemn your exisiting speakers.
davidf
Well-known member
Firstly, is this for a normal 5.1/7.1 system, or will the system be used for Atmos at some point? I ask, as this will affect your choice.
There are a number of dedicated rear speakers for surround effects channels, and also far more choice when looking at conventional stereo speakers that can be used for surrounds that will suit certain circumstances.
Surround channels, contrary to popular belief, are important. All channels are important. The centre is important as it reproduces virtually everything that happens on screen, and has to produce clear dialogue at the same time. The left and right are normally producing music, but are also producing left/right effects - these have to blend perfectly with the centre (or vice versa). The subwoofer is important as it underpins everything, bringing weight and solidity to big effects. Whilst surround speakers may not be producing dialogue, they are producing ambient information, and they have to blend perfectly with the front to draw the front soundstage out from being a single flat dimension. Depending on the mix, they sometimes produce music as in the film Se7en - try being creeped out by the music when you’re using some tiny little speakers that are lesser quality than the fronts. Skimp on the rears at your peril!
The ideal surround system uses exactly the same speaker all round for perfect integration and identical dispersion characteristics, achieving a three dimensional soundfield where you can’t detect a number of speakers producing sound - just pinpoint effects placement and sounds that effortlessly swirl around the room.
There are a number of dedicated rear speakers for surround effects channels, and also far more choice when looking at conventional stereo speakers that can be used for surrounds that will suit certain circumstances.
Surround channels, contrary to popular belief, are important. All channels are important. The centre is important as it reproduces virtually everything that happens on screen, and has to produce clear dialogue at the same time. The left and right are normally producing music, but are also producing left/right effects - these have to blend perfectly with the centre (or vice versa). The subwoofer is important as it underpins everything, bringing weight and solidity to big effects. Whilst surround speakers may not be producing dialogue, they are producing ambient information, and they have to blend perfectly with the front to draw the front soundstage out from being a single flat dimension. Depending on the mix, they sometimes produce music as in the film Se7en - try being creeped out by the music when you’re using some tiny little speakers that are lesser quality than the fronts. Skimp on the rears at your peril!
The ideal surround system uses exactly the same speaker all round for perfect integration and identical dispersion characteristics, achieving a three dimensional soundfield where you can’t detect a number of speakers producing sound - just pinpoint effects placement and sounds that effortlessly swirl around the room.
(apologies for the format, this pesky website keeps unremembering that I'm logged in)
David F quote
Surround channels, contrary to popular belief, are important. All channels are important. The centre is important as it reproduces virtually everything that happens on screen, and has to produce clear dialogue at the same time. The left and right are normally producing music, but are also producing left/right effects - these have to blend perfectly with the centre (or vice versa). The subwoofer is important as it underpins everything, bringing weight and solidity to big effects. Whilst surround speakers may not be producing dialogue, they are producing ambient information, and they have to blend perfectly with the front to draw the front soundstage out from being a single flat dimension. Depending on the mix, they sometimes produce music as in the film Se7en - try being creeped out by the music when you’re using some tiny little speakers that are lesser quality than the fronts. Skimp on the rears at your peril!
[end quote]
Couldn't agree with this more. I had a little experiment recently. Currently I have three well-matched speakers at the front (floorstander, matching centre, floorstander). But I had been using some Monitor Audio Apex A10's (just satellites, albeit at the higher end of what you'd expect from satellite speakers). Anyway I swapped them over with some Ruark Epilogue 2 bookshelf speakers I use in my other system and played Jurassic World through Apexes, then the Epilogues. (Yes it's not the most intellectually challenging film around, but the surround mix is very well produced and very effective)
The difference was remarkable. Obviously the timbre of the Epilogue's drivers match it's same-branded front three more precisely, although the Apexes weren't overly different, but the main difference was the frequency response. The Epilogues could go so much fuller in the midrange before crossing over to the sub. There was one scene in particular when they were attempting to locate the Indominus Rex in its enclosure (I mean it must be really tough finding a ginormous dinosaur in a pen!!), and they hadn't realised that it was behind them and it roared though my rear speakers. Through the Ruarks it honestly gave me a real jump! The depth of the roar and sheer presence behind me was quite a step above the diminutive Apexes, as good as they are at what they're designed for.
But like DavidF said, it's not just effects, it's the sense of soundstage, which tends to show through on more dialogue-heavy films where you can just sense more accurately the size and shape of the room the particular scene is taking place in.
Anyway, that's kind of a long-winded way of saying yes, the rears are important. Although tempering that, I would be careful about overdoing the levels you set on the AV receiver for the rears. They shouldn't be overwhelming the mix as a whole, just contributing to it.
David F quote
Surround channels, contrary to popular belief, are important. All channels are important. The centre is important as it reproduces virtually everything that happens on screen, and has to produce clear dialogue at the same time. The left and right are normally producing music, but are also producing left/right effects - these have to blend perfectly with the centre (or vice versa). The subwoofer is important as it underpins everything, bringing weight and solidity to big effects. Whilst surround speakers may not be producing dialogue, they are producing ambient information, and they have to blend perfectly with the front to draw the front soundstage out from being a single flat dimension. Depending on the mix, they sometimes produce music as in the film Se7en - try being creeped out by the music when you’re using some tiny little speakers that are lesser quality than the fronts. Skimp on the rears at your peril!
[end quote]
Couldn't agree with this more. I had a little experiment recently. Currently I have three well-matched speakers at the front (floorstander, matching centre, floorstander). But I had been using some Monitor Audio Apex A10's (just satellites, albeit at the higher end of what you'd expect from satellite speakers). Anyway I swapped them over with some Ruark Epilogue 2 bookshelf speakers I use in my other system and played Jurassic World through Apexes, then the Epilogues. (Yes it's not the most intellectually challenging film around, but the surround mix is very well produced and very effective)
The difference was remarkable. Obviously the timbre of the Epilogue's drivers match it's same-branded front three more precisely, although the Apexes weren't overly different, but the main difference was the frequency response. The Epilogues could go so much fuller in the midrange before crossing over to the sub. There was one scene in particular when they were attempting to locate the Indominus Rex in its enclosure (I mean it must be really tough finding a ginormous dinosaur in a pen!!), and they hadn't realised that it was behind them and it roared though my rear speakers. Through the Ruarks it honestly gave me a real jump! The depth of the roar and sheer presence behind me was quite a step above the diminutive Apexes, as good as they are at what they're designed for.
But like DavidF said, it's not just effects, it's the sense of soundstage, which tends to show through on more dialogue-heavy films where you can just sense more accurately the size and shape of the room the particular scene is taking place in.
Anyway, that's kind of a long-winded way of saying yes, the rears are important. Although tempering that, I would be careful about overdoing the levels you set on the AV receiver for the rears. They shouldn't be overwhelming the mix as a whole, just contributing to it.
Thanks for all the replies!
My system is an entry level amp with mission floorstanders at the front, 752’s, a 75C centre and mission bipoles up high on the wall that’s directly behind the sofa. Placing rear speakers in a small room is always going to be hard and I never wanted a rear to be blasting at the sofa.
The note
It just seems to me that many people will have small rooms and particular difficulties placing rear speakers. Like more downward firing speakers or multiple speaker cabinets. Or rotate them down, to the side, or even up. The bose that can point in different directions always appealed but I never through bose would integrate well with other Hifi kit.
The note abkht Monitor Apex A10’s is interesting. We’re planning to redo the living room which will force replacing the fronts floorstanders wth sattellites and I was planning on 3 A10’s. Gutted to have to move away from big cones!!!
My other though was Quad S-1’s and theS-C but I expect the A10’s will actually have more presence....???
My system is an entry level amp with mission floorstanders at the front, 752’s, a 75C centre and mission bipoles up high on the wall that’s directly behind the sofa. Placing rear speakers in a small room is always going to be hard and I never wanted a rear to be blasting at the sofa.
The note
It just seems to me that many people will have small rooms and particular difficulties placing rear speakers. Like more downward firing speakers or multiple speaker cabinets. Or rotate them down, to the side, or even up. The bose that can point in different directions always appealed but I never through bose would integrate well with other Hifi kit.
The note abkht Monitor Apex A10’s is interesting. We’re planning to redo the living room which will force replacing the fronts floorstanders wth sattellites and I was planning on 3 A10’s. Gutted to have to move away from big cones!!!
My other though was Quad S-1’s and theS-C but I expect the A10’s will actually have more presence....???
Have you thought about in wall speakers?
If you've got plasterboard walls they're a big cone option your Memsahib might go for....
If you've got plasterboard walls they're a big cone option your Memsahib might go for....
timbo999 said:
The A10's are great at what they're designed for...as style surround speakers. They're absolutely fine with multi-channel movies in conjunction with a decent subwoofer. But I found them lacking when I used them for stereo sources, either TV or music, when compared with my Ruarks. And as previously indicated, as rears they were bettered by the Ruarks, which are small standmount speakers.
I know lots of people that rave about the Apexes, and they are excellent, but in the context of their design brief. They can be bettered by conventional designs.
If you're after something that can be discreetly wall-mounted, the ATC HTS7 speakers look pretty good. Monitor Audio make similar on-wall / in-wall speakers that might allow for bigger drivers. The Apexes are only 5.25" in very dinky boxes, so you can only expect so much. You could always demo, you might be pleasantly surprised.
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