RCA v XLR

[bignige]

Bought an Arcam rHead headphone amp which has outputs and a switch for either RCA or XLR.

What are they?

Which is best - does one give better quality sound?

n

 

[nopiano]

I think they are inputs not outputs!

If you have XLR outputs on your source, whatever that is, I'd use xlr to xlr. You may have heard them called balanced connections elsewhere, and are more often used on pro gear and studio kit, where long cable run are commonplace.

If you have a typical Hi-Fi component it will likely have rca outputs, which you should use in that case.

 

[Al ears]

I think they are inputs not outputs!

If you have XLR outputs on your source, whatever that is, I'd use xlr to xlr. You may have heard them called balanced connections elsewhere, and are more often used on pro gear and studio kit, where long cable run are commonplace.

If you have a typical Hi-Fi component it will likely have rca outputs, which you should use in that case.

+1, but please note some headphone amplifiers do have balanced out connections for suitable headphones.

 

[Macspur]

To satisfy your curiosity perhaps buy some cheap XLR and phono cables and see which you prefer.

Personally I prefer the balanced, quite a noticeable difference.

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com

 

[newlash09]

But my Yamaha wxc-50 doesnt have any XLR outs. And my amp has XLR ins. And I found some XLR to rca cables on the net. Will going for these XLR to rca give me any sonic benefits or should I stick with the RCA to rca. Thanks.

 

[Gray]

But my Yamaha wxc-50 doesnt have any XLR outs. And my amp has XLR ins. And I found some XLR to rca cables on the net. Will going for these XLR to rca give me any sonic benefits or should I stick with the RCA to rca. Thanks.

Stick with RCA to RCA.

 

[newlash09]

Point well noted.

 

[Vladimir]

But my Yamaha wxc-50 doesnt have any XLR outs. And my amp has XLR ins. And I found some XLR to rca cables on the net. Will going for these XLR to rca give me any sonic benefits

Nope

or should I stick with the RCA to rca.

Yup

 

[manicm]

As far as I know, xlr is recommended if you require longer than usual leads.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

And it depends if your amplifier is fully balanced or not as some company's put them on there when it's not a fully balanced amplifier I use XLRs but not expensive ones £25 mic cable they are made out of and sounds lovely but my setup is fully balanced .

a good set of phono cables will do a good job nicely .

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

Agreed it depends on if the item is balanced or not. Lots of people say that balanced leads only make a difference for really long lengths but that is bs on my experience as it is hi fi dependent. I heard good differences between same brand xlr to rca, with xlr bettter, not surprising as pre and power amps are both balanced. The make and brands and if the units are really truly balanced are important too.

It also depends on the quality of the amps you are using and if the amps are really good quality (and speakers too) you may notice differences more obviously than lower comparative quality hi fi, or even not at all (between rca and xlr). If you've got a really decent system then try free demos of cables, not necessarily expensive. If they make a differnce great and if not, no,problem too as you haven't bought anything. If your system is considered budget or mid range, my advice would be to buy good quality cables xlr or rca , but don't go mad. A consideration with xlr too is you get a good connection with the locking arrangement.

 

[davedotco]

Are just a connector, they can be wired balanced, unbalanced or completely mucked up as with some old Naim amplifiers. Whether as a connector an XLR is better than a decent phono is open to debate.

Balanced cables tend to use XLRs (though other connectors can and have been used, including phono plugs) so the comparison is usually made between a balanced XLR cable and an unbalanced phono. To test the difference you would really need to have two components with both balanced and unbalanced connectors.

In general terms, my view is this. If your components are fully balanced throughout, use balanced cables, if not use regular unbalanced phono leads.

 

[Electro]

Are just a connector, they can be wired balanced, unbalanced or completely mucked up as with some old Naim amplifiers. Whether as a connector an XLR is better than a decent phono is open to debate.

Balanced cables tend to use XLRs (though other connectors can and have been used, including phono plugs) so the comparison is usually made between a balanced XLR cable and an unbalanced phono. To test the difference you would really need to have two components with both balanced and unbalanced connectors.

In general terms, my view is this. If your components are fully balanced throughout, use balanced cables, if not use regular unbalanced phono leads.

+1

 

[insider9]

Are just a connector, they can be wired balanced, unbalanced or completely mucked up as with some old Naim amplifiers. Whether as a connector an XLR is better than a decent phono is open to debate.

Balanced cables tend to use XLRs (though other connectors can and have been used, including phono plugs) so the comparison is usually made between a balanced XLR cable and an unbalanced phono. To test the difference you would really need to have two components with both balanced and unbalanced connectors.

In general terms, my view is this. If your components are fully balanced throughout, use balanced cables, if not use regular unbalanced phono leads.

       +1

+2

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

Are just a connector, they can be wired balanced, unbalanced or completely mucked up as with some old Naim amplifiers. Whether as a connector an XLR is better than a decent phono is open to debate.

Balanced cables tend to use XLRs (though other connectors can and have been used, including phono plugs) so the comparison is usually made between a balanced XLR cable and an unbalanced phono. To test the difference you would really need to have two components with both balanced and unbalanced connectors.

In general terms, my view is this. If your components are fully balanced throughout, use balanced cables, if not use regular unbalanced phono leads.

+1

+2

+3 (with a proviso if the xlr component from which the signal passes is not a balanced component/ circuit, you are not getting any benefit of using the third wire of the xlr cable. Sometimes units have xlr outs but are not balanced so you would not get any traditional benefit in the circuit of a balanced connection, but conceivably you could get a benefit in the way the circuits are wired up and signal paths in favour of rca or xlr over each other , hence why still worth trying xlr and rca of the same brand/make, but I'd doubt you would hear anything if the system is a budget type)

 

[davedotco]

There is no difference in the circuit required to drive an XLR or a phono cable in unbalanced mode, just a straightforward single ended circuit.

To my my mind, XLR plugs are safer due to their grounding arrangements and more rugged in construction, neither of which is a great advantage in fixed installations. Whether XLRs offer an improvement in sound quality over phono plugs, as connectors, is open to debate, personally I think not.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

But it has sometimes been postulated to be the routes on the circuit and the directness of the signal path. was my point. That's could account how I know some people have accounted a differnence with xlr over rca in unbalanced unit mode. Also I know some people who have used xlr adapters on one end, where some units are unbalanced.

 

[davedotco]

But it has sometimes been postulated to be the routes on the circuit and the directness of the signal path. was my point. That's could account how I know some people have accounted a differnence with xlr over rca in unbalanced unit mode. Also I know some people who have used xlr adapters on one end, where some units are unbalanced.

The circuit and signal path are identicle, there is no need for any difference whatsoever.

The only circumstance where there would be different is when a differential circuit is used to produce a balanced output from a single ended circuit or vice versa. Then there is scope for real differences to exist.

The XLR is just a connector, like a jack or a phono plug. If you think that these connectors can affect sound quality, fair enough.

 

[Electro]

One other difference between using Balanced XLR cables over RCA is that the output voltage doubles using the XLR connections, at least it does with my Electro equipment.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

So if must be on a differnent circuit then, but whatever the thing is you can't predict what will happen and there are so many vagueries and differnences whether xlr or rca is better is pretty much impossible to predict, until you try it and experiment.

 

[davedotco]

One other difference between using Balanced XLR cables over RCA is that the output voltage doubles using the XLR connections, at least it does with my Electro equipment.

If balanced and unbalanced outputs are provided then it is usual for the unbalanced out to be the same voltage as each phase of the balanced output. With a fully balanced system like yours, each phase will be the normal 2 volts (ish). Each phase of your components will then be fed by a 2 volt signal.

Only when they are summed for an unbalanced circuit by a differential input will they measure 4 volts (ish). (assuming unity gain differential circuits)

To say that balanced circuits run at twice the voltage is an over simplification.

 

[Electro]

One other difference between using Balanced XLR cables over RCA is that the output voltage doubles using the XLR connections, at least it does with my Electro equipment.

If balanced and unbalanced outputs are provided then it is usual for the unbalanced out to be the same voltage as each phase of the balanced output. With a fully balanced system like yours, each phase will be the normal 2 volts (ish). Each phase of your components will then be fed by a 2 volt signal.

Only when they are summed for an unbalanced circuit by a differential input will they measure 4 volts (ish). (assuming unity gain differential circuits)

To say that balanced circuits run at twice the voltage is an over simplification.

I'll take your word for it *smile* .

Here is the spec of my preamp if it makes sence to you .
All measurements are made at 120V / 240V //50Hz / 60Hz Input impedance balanced (fixed)47 KohmOutput impedance100 ohmInput level (Single ended)>15 Vp-pInput level (balanced)>30 Vp-pMax output level (Single ended)>15 Vp-pMax output level (Balanced)30 Vp-pGain- 111dB to +6dBNoice Floor<-130dB (@ 0dB gain)Frequency responce0.5 - 200.000 HzChannel Seperation> 120dBTHD + N<0.002%
IMD

And the Cd player.
Line section Single ended gain1.6X (4dB)Balanced gain3.2X (10dB)THD (1V out, 1KHz)< 0,002%Maximum output (Balanced)> 14V RMSChannel separation
(1V out, 1KHz)> 90 dBEquivalent input noise4µV Digital section Latest version of Phillips CD PRO Top loading drive unit24 Bit upsampler 192KHz DACDigital out RCA/XLR OtherTrue balanced systemMechanical filter which cancels acoustic/mechanical vibrations preventing the laser pick-up from receiving unwanted signalsFTT Power supplyFully remote (no volume control)
TBD

 

[davedotco]

Most modern dac chips produce a differential (balanced) output as standard. Your setup maintains a fully balanced configuration all the way through to the power amp, probably to the driver stage.

The levels that the components interface at are up to the designer but many take their guidance from the 2 volts that is standard for the output of CD players. So in a balanced setup, each phase is 2 volts so when summed, 4 volts.

The unbalanced connections are usually just the +ve phase of the output, so 2 volts. These needs to be buffed so that you can use both at the same time. Some less comprehensive designs recomend using either the balanced or the unbalanced, not both.

 

[Gray]

Balanced cables tend to use XLRs (though other connectors can and have been used, including phono plugs)

Have you got an example of a manufacturer using phono plugs? Do they use two? I can see how they could, but never seen any. Though as you say, some have always been awkward with connectors (like my Quad FM4, with its DIN (for unbalanced))

Or are you talking about their use on those pseudo balanced interconnects where they leave the screen disconnected at one end?

 

[davedotco]

I recall seeing product with balanced connections using twin phono plugs but I can not recall the brand and it is a very long time ago.

I also recall early Levinson amplifiers using hi-tech Camac connectors for balanced connections, and of course lots of pro and semi pro gear use 3 pole TRS (tip, ring, sleeve) jack plugs.

My post was really just to make the point that XLRs are just a connector, they can be used as you wish, it does not automatically mean that the cable it is part of is actually balanced.