Question to all learned PMC owners (experts)

psurquhart

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I am no expert.

However I have my GB1's (original model) in a surround sound set-up as front l & r - they are a good 14" from the rear wall and sound lovely - due to their transmission line facing forward this has never been a problem. I just simply toe them in slightly and it all works a treat. They dont seem to care one bit about placement.

The experts out there may tell me that I have this all set up wrong but it all sounds astonishing to me ?

I have no experience in the TB2's Im afraid but what I can tell you is that I love my GB1's - cracking set of speakers and oh so versatile.
 

Electro

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With PMC speakers closeness to a rear wall is less of a problem than with most ordinary ported speakers and even though the TB2i transmission line has a rear exit it is only the deepest bass that exits from it , and because all of the mid and upper bass has been filtered out in the transmission line you don't get the boomy or distorted bass you might expect .

Because it is only the lowest frequencies that exit the mouth and they are in phase with the front bass driver it rarely causes the same bass problems that a conventional bass reflex type speaker can have if placed close to a rear wall which is one of the many benefits of the PMC ATL ( Advanced transmission line ) system .

In theory there should be little to choose from between placing the TB1i or GB1i near a wall but it is very dependent on the room itself and only experimenting with both will tell you for sure .

I would not describe myself as a PMC expert :) but I have owned a few and they are one of the easiest speakers to integrate into a room in my experience.
 

jaxwired

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I've only experimented with the DB1is and the OB1is. But, given that these OB1i's are less fussy about position that most other speakers I've owned I would guess the GB1i's would be very wall friendly. I also think it's the better of the two speakers. You get the full advantage of the transmission line with the floorstanding speakers. Not that the TB2i's aren't great speakers. But between those two, I'd be going for the GB1i's.
 

Frank Harvey

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You should find the GB1i more flexible with it being front ported and with a smaller bass driver.

Like all quality speakers, you will find that both models will be appreciative of a bit of space between themselves and the walls - the less influence the wall has on the speaker, the more balanced the speaker will sound. Close wall proximity will usually affect soundstage depth too (so beware of hearing speakers at shows or in stores that are 5 or 6 feet into the room, as they're going to sound completely different in a normal room situation).

All rooms will act differently though, so only general information can be given, which may differ to actual findings.
 
FrankHarveyHiFi said:
You should find the GB1i more flexible with it being front ported and with a smaller bass driver.

Like all quality speakers, you will find that both models will be appreciative of a bit of space between themselves and the walls - the less influence the wall has on the speaker, the more balanced the speaker will sound. Close wall proximity will usually affect soundstage depth too (so beware of hearing speakers at shows or in stores that are 5 or 6 feet into the room, as they're going to sound completely different in a normal room situation).

All rooms will act differently though, so only general information can be given, which may differ to actual findings.

My theory is based on simple logic: The RS6s sound fine 12" from the wall so the assumption is if a chunky floorstander can sound good so can a small standmounter. I know that's a sweeping generalisation but....

This is something I wanted avoid but how much better are the GB1is compared to RS6? Or what will I hear with the PMCs that I'm not with the MAs? Heard the DB1is, original GB1s (years ago at a dealers) with my old Arcam.
 
altruistic.lemon said:
That's a question only you can answer, PP! By the way, what happened to the Totems you were so keen on?

Nothing - the Totems are fabulous but I just keep coming back to PMCs. I've written many times about going with 'gut feeling' as well as ears.

Yeah, true I'll need to audition some nearer the time but I'm just trying to get a handle on the major differences.
 

Electro

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If I had to describe one thing that makes a PMC speaker special or better than most other speakers it would have to be the bass .

Now this may come as no surprise because most people agree that the bass from PMC speakers is different from most other speakers , but what they don't explain is how it sounds different .

Most people say that bass is not directional and if you listen to 99% of speakers it is quite understandable why people should say this , all you usually hear is an anonymous blob of low frequencies that fills in the lower end and it is very difficult to separate bass guitar , kick drum or bass synth and it is almost impossible to place any of these instruments in a specific space in the stereo image whether left to right or how far away in depth of image .

Because most people are used to this type of sound they don't expect any different unless of course they listen to live music or go to gigs regularly and then they just accept that a HiFi system can't reproduce this type of sound .

Well this is exactly what a PMC speaker can do ! They can put bass instruments in the image with the rest of the instruments in a specific space to the left or right with a sense of distance away from the listener too , not only can you hear and feel the bass frequencies but you can tell what they are and where they are coming from just like live music .

This just makes the music sound far more natural and realistic and allows you to forget about the HiFi and enjoy the music !

I suspect PP that this is what is triggering your 'gut feeling' about PMC speakers .
 
Electro said:
If I had to describe one thing that makes a PMC speaker special or better than most other speakers it would have to be the bass .

Now this may come as no surprise because most people agree that the bass from PMC speakers is different from most other speakers , but what they don't explain is how it sounds different .

Most people say that bass is not directional and if you listen to 99% of speakers it is quite understandable why people should say this , all you usually hear is an anonymous blob of low frequencies that fills in the lower end and it is very difficult to separate bass guitar , kick drum or bass synth and it is almost impossible to place any of these instruments in a specific space in the stereo image whether left to right or how far away in depth of image .

Because most people are used to this type of sound they don't expect any different unless of course they listen to live music or go to gigs regularly and then they just accept that a HiFi system can't reproduce this type of sound .

Well this is exactly what a PMC speaker can do ! They can put bass instruments in the image with the rest of the instruments in a specific space to the left or right with a sense of distance away from the listener too , not only can you hear and feel the bass frequencies but you can tell what they are and where they are coming from just like live music .

This just makes the music sound far more natural and realistic and allows you to forget about the HiFi and enjoy the music !

I suspect PP that this is what is triggering your 'gut feeling' about PMC speakers .

That's one reason. The other is something that Mrs. p mentioned the last time I auditioned the Arro: Because of their diminutive size they are easy to knock over. She pointed out that little'un whizzing around would only have to brush against them and then: "TIMBER!!" So the sound quality isn't really the issue, more the practicalities.

Yes, I concur: PMCs do offer something a little different.
 

jaxwired

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Nice post by electro.

Too answer your question to me, the floorstanders have longer transmission lines. Longer is better. With the GB1i's you get a smaller footprint than the TB2i AND better deeper bass. Plus a smaller woofer tends to image better and is often more detailed in the mids. Which brings me to my last point about PMC speakers. The reason I think they sound so good is that most speakers allow bass distortion to mar the clean sound of the mids. It's not obvious that is what is happening until you hear a speaker that escapes this problem. The PMCs do a great job of removing the distortion from the bass which allows increased clarity in the mids. I think this is why PMCs achieve the amazing trick of sounding detailed without ever sound bright. It's an oxy-moron to say a speaker is both detailed and smooth, but PMCs are just that which is really the holy grail in speakers IMO.
 

True Blue

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Hi PP, just measured the distance between the wall and my DB1i's again (after the yearly hifi strip and clean) they are 14" from the rear and side walls and that to me is their sweet spot. Like has been mentioned they can become slighlty boomey when placed closer than 6" or so.

Never had the luck to listen to a set of TB2i's, however I would omagine they would be similar due to the rear ATL port.

I have demoed the GB1i's both at home and in store (and when my employment situation sorts itself out, they will be my first purchase (on the hifi anyway)). They are not fussy at all about placement and can be placed as near to any wall as you like.

One word though with any speaker but especially PMC make sure the front of the cabinet projects further into the room than any other object ie chimneybreast or HIFI rack etc as it completely ruins the stereo imagry.
 
jaxwired said:
Nice post by electro.

Too answer your question to me, the floorstanders have longer transmission lines. Longer is better. With the GB1i's you get a smaller footprint than the TB2i AND better deeper bass. Plus a smaller woofer tends to image better and is often more detailed in the mids. Which brings me to my last point about PMC speakers. The reason I think they sound so good is that most speakers allow bass distortion to mar the clean sound of the mids. It's not obvious that is what is happening until you hear a speaker that escapes this problem. The PMCs do a great job of removing the distortion from the bass which allows increased clarity in the mids. I think this is why PMCs achieve the amazing trick of sounding detailed without ever sound bright. It's an oxy-moron to say a speaker is both detailed and smooth, but PMCs are just that which is really the holy grail in speakers IMO.

Very interesting comments from all.

Jax, you've heard the RS6, haven't you? How different is the GB1 bass from the MAs? I'm not looking to increase but improve dispersion.
 

True Blue

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jaxwired said:
I've only experimented with the DB1is and the OB1is. But, given that these OB1i's are less fussy about position that most other speakers I've owned I would guess the GB1i's would be very wall friendly. I also think it's the better of the two speakers. You get the full advantage of the transmission line with the floorstanding speakers. Not that the TB2i's aren't great speakers. But between those two, I'd be going for the GB1i's.

Had a quick listen to your system last night Jax on you tube very very nice well done. Sorry PP back to topic
 
True Blue said:
Hi PP, just measured the distance between the wall and my DB1i's again (after the yearly hifi strip and clean) they are 14" from the rear and side walls and that to me is their sweet spot. Like has been mentioned they can become slighlty boomey when placed closer than 6" or so.

Never had the luck to listen to a set of TB2i's, however I would omagine they would be similar due to the rear ATL port.

I have demoed the GB1i's both at home and in store (and when my employment situation sorts itself out, they will be my first purchase (on the hifi anyway)). They are not fussy at all about placement and can be placed as near to any wall as you like.

One word though with any speaker but especially PMC make sure the front of the cabinet projects further into the room than any other object ie chimneybreast or HIFI rack etc as it completely ruins the stereo imagry.

Cheers TB. Yes, the same with the RSs I have them slightly in front of the TV, again, this knackers the imagery if you don't.

Interesting to hear the GB1s are easier to place than the DBs. Shame, in some ways, the DBs can't be designed with a front port.
 

jaxwired

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plastic penguin said:
Very interesting comments from all.

Jax, you've heard the RS6, haven't you? How different is the GB1 bass from the MAs? I'm not looking to increase but improve dispersion.

Yes, I have had the RS6 and RX6 in my home. I actually think they are about the best value in their price range. I love the MA RX/RS lines. However, two comments about the comparison, regarding wall sensitivity, I would say they are on opposite ends of the spectrum. PMC is one of the least sensitive (only sealed boxes like ATC are less so in my experience) and MA RS6s are among the most sensitive. That doesn't mean they can't be affected, all speakers can, but I think the GB1i's are much less sensitive than the RS6s.

Regarding the bass difference, there is a marked difference in the overal tone of bass. The MAs have a richer fatter sound. The bass is more lush. The PMCs have a more sharp, crisp type of bass but still nicely punchy and full. PMC bass does sound different from most other speakers due to the transmission line. I like it, other's might not. But in the mids and highs, they are definately more integrated and more accurate than the MAs IMO.
 

jaxwired

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One more thing about PMCs, they are the least directional of any speaker I've owned (and that's a ugly long list :oops: )

When you move around the room or get up from your chair they maintain a more consistent sound than any other speaker I've heard. I think it's the sophisticated crossover they use that is responsible for this magic trick.
 

garyw77

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plastic penguin said:
Shame, in some ways, the DBs can't be designed with a front port.

Why not try the new PMC Twenty Series? The Twenty 21 is about the DB1i's size AND front ported ;)

I must say i love my DB1i's & the PMC "sound" & will be looking at getting the Twenty 21's for the next upgrade... :)
 
jaxwired said:
plastic penguin said:
Very interesting comments from all.

Jax, you've heard the RS6, haven't you? How different is the GB1 bass from the MAs? I'm not looking to increase but improve dispersion.

Yes, I have had the RS6 and RX6 in my home. I actually think they are about the best value in their price range. I love the MA RX/RS lines. However, two comments about the comparison, regarding wall sensitivity, I would say they are on opposite ends of the spectrum. PMC is one of the least sensitive (only sealed boxes like ATC are less so in my experience) and MA RS6s are among the most sensitive. That doesn't mean they can't be affected, all speakers can, but I think the GB1i's are much less sensitive than the RS6s.

Regarding the bass difference, there is a marked difference in the overal tone of bass. The MAs have a richer fatter sound. The bass is more lush. The PMCs have a more sharp, crisp type of bass but still nicely punchy and full. PMC bass does sound different from most other speakers due to the transmission line. I like it, other's might not. But in the mids and highs, they are definately more integrated and more accurate than the MAs IMO.

Thanks, Jax - sounds like the sort of speaker to audition soon.

Thanks once again.
 

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