Pure Direct option

stereoman

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Hello , has anybody ever noticed any sound improvement after switching Pure Direct Mode on ? In amplifiers that have this function. I used to have it Accuphase and now in Yamaha - and having really analytical sense of hearing I can / could hear almost no ( if any ) difference (barely and too small for significant impact on sound)...Have you different experience ? Or should I be ashamed...?
 
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stereoman said:
Hello , has anybody ever noticed any sound improvement after switching Pure Direct Mode on ? In amplifiers that have this function. I used to have it Accuphase and now in Yamaha - and having really analytical sense of hearing I can / could hear almost no ( if any ) difference (barely and too small for significant impact on sound)...Have you different experience ? Or should I be ashamed...?

Not sure if it's the same but I have source direct on my amp and can definitely hear a difference.
 

muljao

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I don't think I can hear a difference, but as you are bypassing electrictronics you can be sure there is a measurable difference, which in theory could make a listening difference to a very discerning listener
 

ID.

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I've always been able to hear a difference on every amp I've tested it on. Never tried it on an Accuphase. Maybe I'll give it a go when I'm next in a dealer that carries Accuphase, although I've kind of stopped just going and listening to kit when I'm not looking to upgrade; helps reduce temptation.
 

drummerman

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When I had Denon and Marantz amplifiers I could definitively hear differences with Direct mode, not always for the better it has to be said.

Nothing wrong with having tone controls, even if not used often.
 

iMark

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Our Yamaha (R-N 602) has a Pure Direct button, as did our previous R-S 500. The manual says: "When the PURE DIRECT switch is turned on, routes input signals from your audio sources so that the input signals bypass the BASS, TREBLE, BALANCE and LOUDNESS controls, thus eliminating any alterations to the audio signals and creating the purest possible sound." And in a note: "When the PURE DIRECT switch is turned on, the front display turns off".

The concept sounds OK so I use the Pure Direct button. I think it makes a slight difference in sound but that could be expectation bias. I have read though that displays can cause a little bit of interference so if that switches off that's a good thing. You have to wonder though why manufacturers still include Bass, Treble, Balance and Loudness controls if they deteriotate the sound. But I suppose that in some circumstances the controls, especially Balance, might prove useful. I never use tone controls anyway, so switching doens't make a lot of difference.
 

abacus

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Hi Fi: In the old days, discrete components could not be made of good quality cheaply, so bypassing them where possible could give improved performance, however the quality these days (Not forgetting a lot of it is done in the digital domain) are such that differences are negligible, even if any at all.

AV: One of the biggest problems, is that unless you have a dedicated cinema room. (Or there are no complaints in rearranging the lounge with acoustic treatments) then the speaker/room combination can colour the sound, fortunately most AV Receivers can help reduce these problems by using DSP room compensation, thus you get a sound that is closer to the original recording. If you select pure direct in this case, then all room compensation is removed, and in most cases, you will get a much inferior sound.

There are no hard or fast rules to this, so best to use what sounds best to you, as without comparison with the original recording, it will be down to your personal preference.

Hope this helps

Bill
 

MajorFubar

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I've always thought the 'deteriorating' effect of tone controls even when left at flat is somewhat overstated and shows an ignorance of how tone control circuits actually work, an ignorance perpetuated by magazine reviews and the manufacturers alike. If you believe that tone controls left at zero still have the potential to deteriorate the signal, then so does circuitry which switches the tone control board in and out of the signal path, which is sometimes just the defeat switch itself or sometimes is a relay that's flip-flopped by the defeat switch.
 

matthewjh

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I wish my dad would use Pure Direct when listening to 2 channel stereo. He as it set so it sounds like a boy racers metro. all sub and treble. hideous!

My stereo has no controls and i like it like that, i find tone controls end up more fatiguing over extended listening.

matt
 

MajorFubar

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Another use for tone controls is restoring a decent EQ balance. Some 70s-80s albums (particularly hard rock, punk and metal) were purposefully mastered lean so that 40-odd minutes of music could actually be cut to two sides of vinyl without having to cut it very quiet like cheap K-Tel and Ronco compilation albums (which were cut quiet to give 30 min playing time per side). Bit of bass boost or treble cut redressed the balance. Then when CDs came along which didn't need such compromises to be made, they made the CDs from the same master, so the CDs were just as tonally imbalanced. Re-mastering should sort all that out, but we all know the often sorry tale there.
 

stereoman

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Yes , I also find unecessary use of tone controls - I've been into HiFi many years I almost never if ever used any tone controls. Maybe these are more useful for Vinyl playback ? Yet, so many amps have loudness, bass and treble. Again, this is completely unecessary - it spoils the signal path and never improves the sound. But I noticed that even many HiEnd amps possess the tone controls. Personally I really do think they do not contribute to anything. But maybe I am wrong. I know that with good loudspeakers there is no way you should need them.
 

MeanandGreen

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MajorFubar said:
I've always thought the 'deteriorating' effect of tone controls even when left at flat is somewhat overstated and shows an ignorance of how tone control circuits actually work, an ignorance perpetuated by magazine reviews and the manufacturers alike. If you believe that tone controls left at zero still have the potential to deteriorate the signal, then so does circuitry which switches the tone control board in and out of the signal path, which is sometimes just the defeat switch itself or sometimes is a relay that's flip-flopped by the defeat switch.
100% agree with you Major. I personally think it was always a non issue fabricated by the hi fi press. I have never heard a difference with control controls switched in or out when set to flat on any amplifier. I like the convenience of the switch and also the option of making subtle adjustments to less than ideal recordings with tone controls as required, but 99% of the time I listen bypassed.
MajorFubar said:
Another use for tone controls is restoring a decent EQ balance. Some 70s-80s albums (particularly hard rock, punk and metal) were purposefully mastered lean so that 40-odd minutes of music could actually be cut to two sides of vinyl without having to cut it very quiet like cheap K-Tel and Ronco compilation albums (which were cut quiet to give 30 min playing time per side). Bit of bass boost or treble cut redressed the balance. Then when CDs came along which didn't need such compromises to be made, they made the CDs from the same master, so the CDs were just as tonally imbalanced. Re-mastering should sort all that out, but we all know the often sorry tale there.
Unfortunately it often is a sorry tale only too true. The only real exceptions being SACD remasters which always seem to be superb.
 

iMark

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One of the examples would be "Get Happy" by Elvis Costello and the Attractions. Originally released on LP (and cassette!) with 10 tracks per side. Quite thinny sound. The CD remasters by Rhino are very good in my ears. But apparently the remaster from 2003 doesn't have the dynamic range from the original 1985 CD. So what do I know. :)

There is now a release on 2x 45 RPM LP, which will probably sound excellent too.

http://www.mofi.com/product_p/mfsl2-334.htm

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=Elvis+Costello&album=Get+Happy
 
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As with everything, it will differ from one amp to another, on my Av receiver it makes a difference to the sound for sure, and for the better to for my taste, but it won’t flatter poor recordings or heavily compressed files, but then you speaker will have the final say (and your ears) on what difference you hear or don’t hear, some speaker will exaggerate the difference, others will be more subtle.

I have direct mode too on my AVR, this does not seem to sound any different to stereo mode when im flicking through the modes

As for stereo amps, well not had a stereo amp with that feature on it in a long while, but i would expect the difference to be less noticeable on a stereo amp if the bass and treble are both at zero
 

bdf123

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I tend to alter the treble and bass and mid etc. I find that changing it suits different music in different way, so often alter it. I didn't realise that most left it at neutral. I DJ so perhaps I'm more used to changing them to suit what my ears like to hear.
 

stereoman

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bdf123 said:
I DJ so perhaps I'm more used to changing them to suit what my ears like to hear.

Lol...
regular_smile.gif
thumbs_up.gif
 

bdf123

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stereoman said:
bdf123 said:
I DJ so perhaps I'm more used to changing them to suit what my ears like to hear.

Lol...
Do you DJ? Particularly applying to house music, the length of the track at which the mix is shifting from one track to another can be over 2 minutes of the track. Not altering volume and eq's would result in an awful sounding mix. Appreciate this probably isn't the best forum to start talking about DJ'ing
 

LongliveCD

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Really interesting question. I have same doubt but I guess that in these kind of things you blame on your system and creates some improvement fever.

I am listening a Pioneer SX N30 with a Marantz cd5005 and Q3020 speakers or AKG K240 headphones. Both receiver and CD player have some kind of "pure"direct mode but I cannot find differences. I can find the differences between stereo and direct mode in the amplification but not for "purest" modes. However don't tell me why I have most kind of direct mode selected in both.

And what about looking for some differences not on direct SQ but on comfort when listening for a long periods of time? I have to test it.

Does anybody know some way to measure these differences in the output signal? I am not an expertise on SQ or signal engineer, but maybe with an oscilloscope? It could be interesting to see some differences in the plots.
 

stereoman

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bdf123 said:
stereoman said:
bdf123 said:
I DJ so perhaps I'm more used to changing them to suit what my ears like to hear.

Lol...
Do you DJ? Particularly applying to house music, the length of the track at which the mix is shifting from one track to another can be over 2 minutes of the track. Not altering volume and eq's would result in an awful sounding mix. Appreciate this probably isn't the best forum to start talking about DJ'ing

No, I don't. Though I like house music too. It's just your answer, because DJing in general is far away from Hi Fi systems in terms of purity of signal reproduction. A different thing though is in music studio.... ;)
 

iMark

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How about this quote from a review by someone called Paul Rigby about engaging the Pure Direct button on a Yamaha R-N602.

"There was a lack of engagement, though. By that, I means that the soundstage did sound a little stark. It was almost as if the guys played in a studio that was, by day, an operating theatre. There was a slight lack of soul and musicality in the Yamaha’s presentation so that the drums never really connected with the guitars or the emotional vocals. Then I noticed that the Pure Direct button had not been engaged. Turning this feature on bypassed much of the amp to provide a more direct sonic pathway. This improved the sound quality immeasurably, giving the vocals a more, well, human quality with delicate textures from the vocal chords more in evident while the guitars offered greater grit and involvement. Despite the good news, though, a certain analytical edge remained but the effect was greatly reduced in Pure Direct mode."

Source: http://theaudiophileman.com/r-n602/

This seems the ever deadly combination of expectation bias and classic audiophool waffle to me, especially the use of the words "immeasurably", and "greatly reduced". This is the same type of unsubstantiated drivel you read in reviews of cables. I always wonder when reviewers complain about equipment being too "analytical". Don't they like the fact that they can hear everything that was recorded?

I can hear the slightest difference between the Pure Direct button on and off. That's with tone controls set to neutral. My own expectation bias dictates me to have the Pure Direct button on. Since I don't use the tone controls anyway, it can't do any harm.
 

MajorFubar

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iMark said:
I always wonder when reviewers complain about equipment being too "analytical". Don't they like the fact that they can hear everything that was recorded?

It's think it's more to do with 'how'. What they usually mean it's it's too brash and there's no sense of cohesion. The sense that it's being thrown at you.
 

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