PS4 + Hifi Speakers = ?

[Cat'sWhisker]

Recently got back into hifi after selling my old system and moving abroad.

I moved back to the UK and went down to my local Richer Sounds where I bought a new LG TV, Cambridge Audio CXA60 amp, and a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 220 speakers. Went home and subsequently hooked up my new PS4, and sat back to enjoy.

Unfortunately one of the speakers quickly developed a bad crackling distortion in the bass region. I won't go into the details of my traumatic experience with Richer Sounds, suffice to say that I specifically aired my concerns at playing a PS4 through a pair of hifi quality speakers (being a bit of an old school purist) but was assured at the point of sale that everything would be perfectly fine. Evidently not!

I had hoped to be able to use my amp & speakers for listening to music, watching TV, and gaming but I'm not sure this will be possible following my experience. I realise that the unique sounds generated by gaming (Call of Duty/Battlefield type games) are more dynamic than the music I listen to (I have also noticed that some movies also have this wider dynamic ie quite dialogue to loud explosions) so I wondered if I can actually have one pair of speakers that will cope with everything?

So my question is this: can I use "hifi speakers" with my TV and PS4?

 

[cheeseboy]

So my question is this: can I use "hifi speakers" with my TV and PS4?

yes

 

[ID.]

Yes.

 

[NS496]

I often use PS4, connected via optical connection to D3020 with B&W 685 s2 - never had a problem.

 

[Al ears]

Yes, and welcome to the forum.

If you still have them take them back and demand a replacement. They are talking rubbish as usual.

 

[Cat'sWhisker]

I had hoped to be able to use them but obviously my confidence in them has been severy knocked after this problem.

I'm tempted to go off on a rant about Richer Sounds but that wouldn't get me anywhere. Wharfedale have been non commital on the subject, and Richer Sounds won't give me a straight answer either.

After their shockingly bad customer service they did replace the damaged speaker (citing my misuse as the cause?!?) but having persisted with this issue they are now willing to give me a refund.

So at the moment I am stuck: apparently the speakers COULD be ok (if so, why the problem in the first place?) but if I take them back what are my alternatives?

After 30+ years of buying hifi (from independent dealers) I have never experienced any problems until now, so it's a bit disappointing. It's not like I'm asking for anything extraordinary.

Thank you all for your comments.

 

[paulselwood]

I have my PS4 link up to my naim unitiqute, no problems at all. Also from time to time, I link it up to my Arcam dac, through Arcam A19, as before no problems.

 

[Al ears]

Any speaker could and should work, sounds like you got a duff pair of Wharfdales.

Personally I wouldn't shop at RicherSounds unless I was after something Cambridge made, but that doesn't really help now does it?

 

[MeanandGreen]

It just sounds like you had a dodgy speaker. You should have no problems using a PS4 in your system.

I run a 2channel stereo amp and speakers for music, PS3, films etc and it works fine. Just replace the speakers and enjoy!

 

[davedotco]

Whilst I agree with pretty much everything said, I do wonder if there is a possibility of the PS4 outputing substantial sub-bass at frequencies the speaker simply could not handle.

Reflex speakers have minimal loading on the bass drive an octave below the frequency to which it is tuned, in this case, around 30hz. No problem with most music but battlefield sound effects, maybe, particularly if you play quite loud. Remember you are unlikely to hear much at this frequency so you could be pushing more power than you think into the speakers and not hearing it.

An easy way to check this is to look at the bass cones when playing at your usual levels, if it is visually moving back and forth, as opposed to just 'vibrating' you have a problem.

 

[macdiddy]

there is no chance that the PS4 is outputting "substantial sub bass frequencys" as when first connected the console automatically sets the audio depending what you are connecting it to (tv only or tv and amp/av amp).

The PS4 is just really a glorified cd player with the added functions to play games (primary) and blurays and I'm sure that if there was a major issue with its audio output, we would have heard something about it by now.

I'm going with a bad set of speakers that the op had, sorry that he had problems with richer sounds as I brought nearly all of my current system from them with no issues at all.

Also your last statement dave is wrong, some speaker bass units are designed to go back and forth rather than just vibrate, I was at a hifi show a few years ago and saw some small floorstanders by a company called "Totem" where the bass units sometimes extended almost an inch from the cabinet front.

I asked the person demoing the speakers if they were ok and he said they were designed that way.

*music2*

 

[davedotco]

there is no chance that the PS4 is outputting "substantial sub bass frequencys" as when first connected the console automatically sets the audio depending what you are connecting it to (tv only or tv and amp/av amp).

The PS4 is just really a glorified cd player with the added functions to play games (primary) and blurays and I'm sure that if there was a major issue with its audio output, we would have heard something about it by now.

I'm going with a bad set of speakers that the op had, sorry that he had problems with richer sounds as I brought nearly all of my current system from them with no issues at all.

Also your last statement dave is wrong, some speaker bass units are designed to go back and forth rather than just vibrate, I was at a hifi show a few years ago and saw some small floorstanders by a company called "Totem" where the bass units sometimes extended almost an inch from the cabinet front.

I asked the person demoing the speakers if they were ok and he said they were designed that way.

*music2*

Some information on how the PS4 'automatically sets the audio' might be of help. You might be quite right of course, but more information would be useful, maybe the settings were somehow wrong. I do not own a PSanything so I am happy to be put right.

A bass unit that extends +/- an inch is very rare, and almost certainly designed for a subwoofer. Bass mid drivers, such as those used in the Wharfedale should not move anything like that at nomal (music) bass frequencies. In fact the reflex port on such speakers are deliberately designed to limit excusion at bass frequencies.

Sub bass frequencies, around 30hz say should move the cone more but a compact, reflex speaker, will have virtually no loading at these frequencies (an octave below resonance), so the bass unit is moving huge distances, much as it does in free air.

This is called cone 'flap' and is not good, particularly in a small speaker. This problem is commonplace with vinyl playing systems where turntable/record noise could excite such speakers at even lower frequencies, blowing bass cones without the listener hearing a thing.

 

[Richer Sounds]

Recently got back into hifi after selling my old system and moving abroad.

I moved back to the UK and went down to my local Richer Sounds where I bought a new LG TV, Cambridge Audio CXA60 amp, and a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 220 speakers. Went home and subsequently hooked up my new PS4, and sat back to enjoy.

Unfortunately one of the speakers quickly developed a bad crackling distortion in the bass region. I won't go into the details of my traumatic experience with Richer Sounds, suffice to say that I specifically aired my concerns at playing a PS4 through a pair of hifi quality speakers (being a bit of an old school purist) but was assured at the point of sale that everything would be perfectly fine. Evidently not!

I had hoped to be able to use my amp & speakers for listening to music, watching TV, and gaming but I'm not sure this will be possible following my experience. I realise that the unique sounds generated by gaming (Call of Duty/Battlefield type games) are more dynamic than the music I listen to (I have also noticed that some movies also have this wider dynamic ie quite dialogue to loud explosions) so I wondered if I can actually have one pair of speakers that will cope with everything?

So my question is this: can I use "hifi speakers" with my TV and PS4?

Hi there,

I was sorry to read your comments about the problems with your Wharfedale speakers purchased from our Leeds store.

After speaking with our branch manager, your original speakers were unfortunately blown which isn’t usually covered by the guarantee, although I understand the speakers were replaced as a gesture of goodwill on this occasion.

However, obviously the last thing we would is an unhappy customer and of course we would be happy to offer a full refund of the speakers, or discuss exchanging for some alternative speakers that are more suitable to your needs. So that I may organise this, please would you get in touch with me via the below e-mail address?

John.p.clayton@richersounds.com

Once again, I offer my apologies, I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Many Thanks

John Clayton

Operations Director

Richer Sounds

 

[Al ears]

Recently got back into hifi after selling my old system and moving abroad.

I moved back to the UK and went down to my local Richer Sounds where I bought a new LG TV, Cambridge Audio CXA60 amp, and a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 220 speakers. Went home and subsequently hooked up my new PS4, and sat back to enjoy.

Unfortunately one of the speakers quickly developed a bad crackling distortion in the bass region. I won't go into the details of my traumatic experience with Richer Sounds, suffice to say that I specifically aired my concerns at playing a PS4 through a pair of hifi quality speakers (being a bit of an old school purist) but was assured at the point of sale that everything would be perfectly fine. Evidently not!

I had hoped to be able to use my amp & speakers for listening to music, watching TV, and gaming but I'm not sure this will be possible following my experience. I realise that the unique sounds generated by gaming (Call of Duty/Battlefield type games) are more dynamic than the music I listen to (I have also noticed that some movies also have this wider dynamic ie quite dialogue to loud explosions) so I wondered if I can actually have one pair of speakers that will cope with everything?

So my question is this: can I use "hifi speakers" with my TV and PS4?

Hi there,

I was sorry to read your comments about the problems with your Wharfedale speakers purchased from our Leeds store.

After speaking with our branch manager, your original speakers were unfortunately blown which isn’t usually covered by the guarantee, although I understand the speakers were replaced as a gesture of goodwill on this occasion.

However, obviously the last thing we would is an unhappy customer and of course we would be happy to offer a full refund of the speakers, or discuss exchanging for some alternative speakers that are more suitable to your needs. So that I may organise this, please would you get in touch with me via the below e-mail address?

John.p.clayton@richersounds.com

Once again, I offer my apologies, I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Many Thanks

John Clayton

Operations Director

Richer Sounds

Now that's the way to do it. 🙂

 

[davedotco]

Now that's the way to do it. 🙂

Not really, unless you simply accept that the Wharfedales were faulty, more or less from new.

That has not really been established and the OP is right to be concerned about damaging a second set of speakers in the same manner.

 

[Al ears]

Now that's the way to do it. 🙂

Not really, unless you simply accept that the Wharfedales were faulty, more or less from new.

That has not really been established and the OP is right to be concerned about damaging a second set of speakers in the same manner.

I was referring to the fact that the full refund should have come from the branch manager as a matter of course and not have had to go as far as the Operations Director who eventually did offer it.

 

[davedotco]

For the dealer that is. He knows that most, nearly all in fact, speaker failures are from some lind of misuse. You may get the very occasional failure 'out of the box', but for a speaker to fail after a few weeks use, it is almost always 'blown up'.

It is not helped by the protestations of the customer, who of course never play anything loud or turns it up too far. (This is usually the point where the 'I can't have blown it up, the amps only 30 watts and I only had the volume at halfway' comes in.

The dealer knows this, so is in something of a dilema. He probably does not have the expertese to cut apart the driver and examine the damage, which can usually tell you the cause of the failure so it gets sent to the manufacturer/distributer who will not normally offer a free replacement if they think it was misuse.

This leaves the dealer in the middle, many would give their customer the benefit of the doubt, until that is the customer does exactly the same thing again and comes back for a second pair of free speakers, after he has experienced that a couple of times, the dealer gets a little more circumspect.

I am talking generally here, not having a go at the OP or the dealer in question, I do not know the specific circumstances, neither have I seen the failed speaker unit, it is just an attempt to put this sort of occurence in perspective from the dealer point of view.

 

[Al ears]

Point taken about aportioning blame.

Cannot say I have ever blown a speaker in my life, even when I did use to abuse my ears. Always used decent amplification I guess. The only failure I have ever seen was down to bad soldering on a crossover.

 

[davedotco]

Point taken about aportioning blame.

Cannot say I have ever blown a speaker in my life, even when I did use to abuse my ears. Always used decent amplification I guess. The only failure I have ever seen was down to bad soldering on a crossover.

Believe me, monday mornings could be quite entertaining at times.

Best monday ever was back in the 70s when a guy brought back a pair of speakers that he had bought as part of a system on the saturday. The bass drivers in the (quite expensive) speakers were solid, with some serious scorch marks on the cone, he said the speakers worked just for a spit second when he switched the amp on, then he could get nothing out of them.

Fortunately for us he also brought his speaker cables, we could see the problen straight away as he had used US style 2 pin mains plugs as speaker plugs for the amplifier end and plugged them into the switched a/c outlets on the rear of his Marantz receiver.

 

[Cat'sWhisker]

Thank you all for your contributions.

I find this very difficult to get my head around, particularly as I don’t believe I am so extraordinary, and I don’t think my requirements are excessively demanding. I want to be able to use my TV, PS4, and iPad as inputs through my Cambridge Audio CXA60 amp, and listen to the sound through some decent speakers. Is this too much to ask for?

There seems to be some ambiguity/disbelief around my actual use (or “misuse” as Richer Sounds have suggested). Obviously the term “misuse” is subjective, although I am old enough, intelligent enough, and experienced enough to be satisfied that listening in my living room at normal volumes (with wife present!?!) does not constitute misuse. Yes I know the word “normal” is also subjective, but let’s not get too carried away here, it’s not rocket science. I may add that I have never “blown” a set of speakers (nor any other component) in around 34 years of hifi use: I had a pair of SD Acoustic speakers that were still sounding awesome after almost 20 years of use, at the point I sold them.

What I am having trouble with is the fact that Richer Sounds cannot give me a straight answer as to the suitability of the components they sold me. They are the so-called experts in this (I only followed their recommendations) and as it is their core business surely they should know what they are talking about.

In response to Mr John P Clayton: yes, the speaker was “blown” - although (at the risk of sounding like a broken record) your staff still cannot categorically state one way or the other if these speakers are suitable for the purpose I clearly informed them of, and was recommended for, at point of sale. They replaced one speaker, not both, and although as a gesture of “goodwill” (which sounds as though they did a great job) made me feel embarrassed and humiliated in the store in front of other customers by labelling me as a person who misuses their belongings. So my initial impression of how they dealt with the issue was far from positive! In fairness to the store manager he has now offered to refund my money - although this still leaves me in a position where I don’t know if the speaker was faulty, or not suitable for intended use - and therefore in position where i find it difficult to determine what my next course of action should be i.e. give the another go, or research some more suitable speakers (I can hardly rely on the professional advice of Richer Sounds).

I will email you to discuss further . . . although I suggest, with respect, that you endeavour to find out the answer to my first question (of suitability) beforehand.

I am also communicating directly with Wharfedale about this, and I look forward to some definitive guidance from them.

So what I initially believed to be an exciting, positive and rewarding experience has turned into this - consumer hassle, hifi disappointment, forum ramblings, and ongoing confusion.

I think I might have to go and listen to some death-metal at volume 11.

(Not really).

 

[davedotco]

In an earlier post I tried to explain why dealers react the way to do in some circumstances, but that said the standard of service and 'expertese' in some main stream dealers is lamentable.

On the other hand, your requirement for a speaker that can 'handle everything' is not that straightforward.

In the same way that movie playback requires a subwoofer and sophisticated bass management, perhaps gaming requires special consideration?

This is not my area of expertese, so I am floating ideas here, but speakers can easily be destroyed by things we can not hear. Some years ago, a well regarded amplifier could, in some circumstances, be provoked to oscilate at frequencies so high as to be inaudible, resulting in blown tweeters by the score.

This is similar to what I suggested earlier regarding the output of the PS4, sub bass frequencies could be overdriving the speaker but be totally unheard, unlikely perhaps but I have seen such things happen.

The most likely scenario is that you had a dodgy pair of speakers, the fact that only one channel failed would suggest that to be the case. But were you to ask me if I was absolutely sure this was the case and would a new set of speakers be totally fine, I would be reluctant to offer a 100% guarantee.

 

[Al ears]

In an earlier post I tried to explain why dealers react the way to do in some circumstances, but that said the standard of service and 'expertese' in some main stream dealers is lamentable.

On the other hand, your requirement for a speaker that can 'handle everything' is not that straightforward.

In the same way that movie playback requires a subwoofer and sophisticated bass management, perhaps gaming requires special consideration?

This is not my area of expertese, so I am floating ideas here, but speakers can easily be destroyed by things we can not hear. Some years ago, a well regarded amplifier could, in some circumstances, be provoked to oscilate at frequencies so high as to be inaudible, resulting in blown tweeters by the score.

This is similar to what I suggested earlier regarding the output of the PS4, sub bass frequencies could be overdriving the speaker but be totally unheard, unlikely perhaps but I have seen such things happen.

The most likely scenario is that you had a dodgy pair of speakers, the fact that only one channel failed would suggest that to be the case. But were you to ask me if I was absolutely sure this was the case and would a new set of speakers be totally fine, I would be reluctant to offer a 100% guarantee.

This is all very well but for Richersounds to offer only one speaker as a replacement for a knackered bought pair is rather taking the p*ss considering their costs and mark up. How to keep the customer satisfied and obtain repeat custom is obviously not in their manifesto.

 

[davedotco]

This is all very well but for Richersounds to offer only one speaker as a replacement for a knackered bought pair is rather taking the p*ss considering their costs and mark up. How to keep the customer satisfied and obtain repeat custom is obviously not in their manifesto.

As only one speaker was damaged that point is arguable, though I can see no reason not to give the OP a new pair as they are probably packaged and sold that way, given that they, the dealer, had decided to go with a replacement.

Can I also ask what is the dealer to do the next time the OP blows up one of his speakers? I'm not suggesting that the OP abuses his system here, there may be a fault or a basic incompatibility in his setup, at this stage we really do not know.

Speaking as a dealer and from a practical point of view, I would offer a full refund and send the OP on his way, let someone else deal with it.