Prog On The BBC
- Thread starter matthewpiano
- Start date
Yep looking forward to it. Incredibly they were talking about it on breakast tv this morning for a good 5-10 mins! Couldn`t believe it! I`m just wondering who on the programme is going to mention the inevitable `prog caused punk` load of nonsense debate. Here`s hoping for a few obscure clips. By the way, started the new year by ordering three Curved Air albums and one solo album by Sonja Kristina. New album by Pendragon to follow. Long live PROG!
gwynne61
Well-known member
gwynne61:Thank goodness for punk, prog was so pretentious, had forgotten about 1970's hairiness too
Punk can and has been just as pretentious, also it has been around for just as long. The whole "Punk vs Prog" thing was and is still peddled by third rate revisionist music journalists from the 1970's.
Punk can and has been just as pretentious, also it has been around for just as long. The whole "Punk vs Prog" thing was and is still peddled by third rate revisionist music journalists from the 1970's.
...most of whom seem to have had their road to Emmaus experience and realised how rubbish was the music they'd been championing and living off for years as soon as punk started to become popular.
gwynne61
Well-known member
lonely boy:gwynne61:Thank goodness for punk, prog was so pretentious, had forgotten about 1970's hairiness too
Punk can and has been just as pretentious, also it has been around for just as long. The whole "Punk vs Prog" thing was and is still peddled by third rate revisionist music journalists from the 1970's.
Don't know if you are old enough to remember the actual punk era, but as a teenager in 76 the choice of decent music was very limited, either what you could catch on tv or listen to John Peel or Alan Freeman on the radio. The journalists you refer to did not influence my and many other teenagers listening habits (and no doubt as Andrew states above jumped bandwagons), but Peel did, a look at the change in his playlists will confirm this over the period 76-78. Whilst 90% of punk was trash and in terms of sales was a lot smaller than say Abba who dominated along with Boney M! etc.
My point is that prog was so self centred that it did not appeal to a mass market due to its complexity and the self indulgence and pomposity of the musicians who needed a kick up the bottom to realise it, hence punk and Johnny Rotten and Joe Strummer calling year zero on music. Robert Wyatt on the programme accepted change as did Genesis (of whom I was a fan alongside other bands of the day, whether punk, prog or just good music), and managed to appeal to different markets hence massive 80's success.
No doubt the X Factor will be looked on fondly in 30 years
Punk can and has been just as pretentious, also it has been around for just as long. The whole "Punk vs Prog" thing was and is still peddled by third rate revisionist music journalists from the 1970's.
Don't know if you are old enough to remember the actual punk era, but as a teenager in 76 the choice of decent music was very limited, either what you could catch on tv or listen to John Peel or Alan Freeman on the radio. The journalists you refer to did not influence my and many other teenagers listening habits (and no doubt as Andrew states above jumped bandwagons), but Peel did, a look at the change in his playlists will confirm this over the period 76-78. Whilst 90% of punk was trash and in terms of sales was a lot smaller than say Abba who dominated along with Boney M! etc.
My point is that prog was so self centred that it did not appeal to a mass market due to its complexity and the self indulgence and pomposity of the musicians who needed a kick up the bottom to realise it, hence punk and Johnny Rotten and Joe Strummer calling year zero on music. Robert Wyatt on the programme accepted change as did Genesis (of whom I was a fan alongside other bands of the day, whether punk, prog or just good music), and managed to appeal to different markets hence massive 80's success.
No doubt the X Factor will be looked on fondly in 30 years
Genesis weren't the only band to change with the times, Yes did too: You only need to look at their album "Going for the One" AND "90125" to realise that they really did change their music from the classic prog of "Fragile" and "Close to the Edge" etc.
Fortunately, metal picked up the prog baton, when plain old rock dropped it. I give you Dream Theater, Opeth, Fates Warning, Cynic, etc, etc
gwynne61
Well-known member
No doubt many bands of the prog era changed, Genesis were quoted as an example of a highly successful change, Yes obviously have a place in Hughes' young heart
. but I don't think their global sales got anywhere near those of the Phil Collins era Genesis, even taking into account Yes were not as productive during this period. Btw foul 80's hairstyles on the Owner of a lonely heart clip
Big Chris,I feel with that Dream Theater etc, metal prog (New genre?) injected excitement which old prog often seemed to lack
Big Chris,I feel with that Dream Theater etc, metal prog (New genre?) injected excitement which old prog often seemed to lack
It didnt just morph into metal either bands like the ozric tentacles kinda flew the prog banner into dance music...well sort of
Drummerdave
Well-known member
Mmmmm - Prog Rock - the staple musical diet of many a 70s schoolboy. I was a huge prog rock fan back then, I'm glad I still have my vinyl collection, all the Genesis lps up to the eponymous one (drew the line at Invisible Touch), all Yes albums up to 90125 - those double and triple (Yessongs) gatefold sleeves with Roger Dean artwork truly are a joy to behold. They don't get listened to a lot these days but I still firmly believe that the Gabriel-era Genesis created some of the most interesting and engaging music ever recorded.
Some of my friends in school at the time were into the new punk rock music but it was many years later until I finally dipped my toe in. There is a slight pang of regret that I didn't indulge at the time but it may have meant I turned my back on the prog scene. I now listen to a lot of indie(underground) punk, noise bands and definitely do not seem to be mellowing with age.
Currently really enjoying some prog metal (Opeth - thanks Big Chris) but the modern band that, for me, embody the spirit of early Genesis are Deerhoof. Not sure if it's the musicianship (skilful but not overtly technical) or the off kilter themes but every time I listen to them it makes me want to go and put on Supper's Ready - no bad thing.
Some of my friends in school at the time were into the new punk rock music but it was many years later until I finally dipped my toe in. There is a slight pang of regret that I didn't indulge at the time but it may have meant I turned my back on the prog scene. I now listen to a lot of indie(underground) punk, noise bands and definitely do not seem to be mellowing with age.
Currently really enjoying some prog metal (Opeth - thanks Big Chris) but the modern band that, for me, embody the spirit of early Genesis are Deerhoof. Not sure if it's the musicianship (skilful but not overtly technical) or the off kilter themes but every time I listen to them it makes me want to go and put on Supper's Ready - no bad thing.
lonely boy:gwynne61:Thank goodness for punk, prog was so pretentious, had forgotten about 1970's hairiness too
Punk can and has been just as pretentious, also it has been around for just as long. The whole "Punk vs Prog" thing was and is still peddled by third rate revisionist music journalists from the 1970's.
Well said Lonely Boy.
Does anyone really believe that Punk only `happened` because of the existence of Prog? What a load of rubbish. Punk happened because it happened and I`m glad it did, it was fun and exciting. The intro to `Pretty Vacant` is still, 30 years later one of my all time favourites.
I`ve always thought it sad that a genre of music so filled with brilliant musicians and originality should be derided so much. Of course time is a great teller and many years later many are starting to realise what a mistake they made and how much enjoyment they`ve missed out on. If only they`d thought for themselves instead of jumping on the bandwagon. `Ah, yeah well Punk happened because of Prog like dinnit?` Hmmnn... where did you hear that I wonder?
Of course if you really don`t like Prog then fine, it`s not everyone`s cup of tea. To many a song that lasts over four minutes is a definate no go.(My missus is one of those!) I`ve always been of the opinion that the more variety in the charts the better. Looking back at the late 70`s it was a golden era with a little of something for everyone. I also seem to remember Emerson,Lake and Palmer having a massive hit with `Fanfare For The Common Man` right in the middle of the Punk explosion.
Punk can and has been just as pretentious, also it has been around for just as long. The whole "Punk vs Prog" thing was and is still peddled by third rate revisionist music journalists from the 1970's.
Well said Lonely Boy.
Does anyone really believe that Punk only `happened` because of the existence of Prog? What a load of rubbish. Punk happened because it happened and I`m glad it did, it was fun and exciting. The intro to `Pretty Vacant` is still, 30 years later one of my all time favourites.
I`ve always thought it sad that a genre of music so filled with brilliant musicians and originality should be derided so much. Of course time is a great teller and many years later many are starting to realise what a mistake they made and how much enjoyment they`ve missed out on. If only they`d thought for themselves instead of jumping on the bandwagon. `Ah, yeah well Punk happened because of Prog like dinnit?` Hmmnn... where did you hear that I wonder?
Of course if you really don`t like Prog then fine, it`s not everyone`s cup of tea. To many a song that lasts over four minutes is a definate no go.(My missus is one of those!) I`ve always been of the opinion that the more variety in the charts the better. Looking back at the late 70`s it was a golden era with a little of something for everyone. I also seem to remember Emerson,Lake and Palmer having a massive hit with `Fanfare For The Common Man` right in the middle of the Punk explosion.
survivor:I also seem to remember Emerson,Lake and Palmer having a massive hit with `Fanfare For The Common Man` right in the middle of the Punk explosion.
Probably a lot to do with the BBC using it as the theme music for its 1976 Montreal Olympics coverage.
Probably a lot to do with the BBC using it as the theme music for its 1976 Montreal Olympics coverage.
Andrew Everard:
survivor:I also seem to remember Emerson,Lake and Palmer having a massive hit with `Fanfare For The Common Man` right in the middle of the Punk explosion.
Probably a lot to do with the BBC using it as the theme music for its 1976 Montreal Olympics coverage.
I didn`t know that. Or had forgotten.
survivor:I also seem to remember Emerson,Lake and Palmer having a massive hit with `Fanfare For The Common Man` right in the middle of the Punk explosion.
Probably a lot to do with the BBC using it as the theme music for its 1976 Montreal Olympics coverage.
I didn`t know that. Or had forgotten.
gwynne61
Well-known member
survivor:
lonely boy:gwynne61:Thank goodness for punk, prog was so pretentious, had forgotten about 1970's hairiness too
Punk can and has been just as pretentious, also it has been around for just as long. The whole "Punk vs Prog" thing was and is still peddled by third rate revisionist music journalists from the 1970's.
Well said Lonely Boy.
Does anyone really believe that Punk only `happened` because of the existence of Prog? What a load of rubbish. Punk happened because it happened and I`m glad it did, it was fun and exciting. The intro to `Pretty Vacant` is still, 30 years later one of my all time favourites.
I`ve always thought it sad that a genre of music so filled with brilliant musicians and originality should be derided so much. Of course time is a great teller and many years later many are starting to realise what a mistake they made and how much enjoyment they`ve missed out on. If only they`d thought for themselves instead of jumping on the bandwagon. `Ah, yeah well Punk happened because of Prog like dinnit?` Hmmnn... where did you hear that I wonder?
Of course if you really don`t like Prog then fine, it`s not everyone`s cup of tea. To many a song that lasts over four minutes is a definate no go.(My missus is one of those!) I`ve always been of the opinion that the more variety in the charts the better. Looking back at the late 70`s it was a golden era with a little of something for everyone. I also seem to remember Emerson,Lake and Palmer having a massive hit with `Fanfare For The Common Man` right in the middle of the Punk explosion.
Calm down fella, my second post regurgitated below was similar to what you are saying, just putting down my recollection of the times. Will call Henry Kissinger to negotiate cease fire
lonely boy:gwynne61:Thank goodness for punk, prog was so pretentious, had forgotten about 1970's hairiness too
Punk
can and has been just as pretentious, also it has been around for just
as long. The whole "Punk vs Prog" thing was and is still peddled by
third rate revisionist music journalists from the 1970's.
Don't
know if you are old enough to remember the actual punk era, but as a
teenager in 76 the choice of decent music was very limited, either what
you could catch on tv or listen to John Peel or Alan Freeman on the
radio. The journalists you refer to did not influence my and many other
teenagers listening habits (and no doubt as Andrew states above jumped
bandwagons), but Peel did, a look at the change in his playlists will
confirm this over the period 76-78. Whilst 90% of punk was trash and in
terms of sales was a lot smaller than say Abba who dominated along with
Boney M! etc.
My point is that prog was so self centred that it
did not appeal to a mass market due to its complexity and the self
indulgence and pomposity of the musicians who needed a kick up the
bottom to realise it, hence punk and Johnny Rotten and Joe Strummer
calling year zero on music. Robert Wyatt on the programme accepted
change as did Genesis (of whom I was a fan alongside other bands of the
day, whether punk, prog or just good music), and managed to appeal to
different markets hence massive 80's success.
No doubt the X Factor will be looked on fondly in 30 years
lonely boy:gwynne61:Thank goodness for punk, prog was so pretentious, had forgotten about 1970's hairiness too
Punk can and has been just as pretentious, also it has been around for just as long. The whole "Punk vs Prog" thing was and is still peddled by third rate revisionist music journalists from the 1970's.
Well said Lonely Boy.
Does anyone really believe that Punk only `happened` because of the existence of Prog? What a load of rubbish. Punk happened because it happened and I`m glad it did, it was fun and exciting. The intro to `Pretty Vacant` is still, 30 years later one of my all time favourites.
I`ve always thought it sad that a genre of music so filled with brilliant musicians and originality should be derided so much. Of course time is a great teller and many years later many are starting to realise what a mistake they made and how much enjoyment they`ve missed out on. If only they`d thought for themselves instead of jumping on the bandwagon. `Ah, yeah well Punk happened because of Prog like dinnit?` Hmmnn... where did you hear that I wonder?
Of course if you really don`t like Prog then fine, it`s not everyone`s cup of tea. To many a song that lasts over four minutes is a definate no go.(My missus is one of those!) I`ve always been of the opinion that the more variety in the charts the better. Looking back at the late 70`s it was a golden era with a little of something for everyone. I also seem to remember Emerson,Lake and Palmer having a massive hit with `Fanfare For The Common Man` right in the middle of the Punk explosion.
Calm down fella, my second post regurgitated below was similar to what you are saying, just putting down my recollection of the times. Will call Henry Kissinger to negotiate cease fire
lonely boy:gwynne61:Thank goodness for punk, prog was so pretentious, had forgotten about 1970's hairiness too
Punk
can and has been just as pretentious, also it has been around for just
as long. The whole "Punk vs Prog" thing was and is still peddled by
third rate revisionist music journalists from the 1970's.
Don't
know if you are old enough to remember the actual punk era, but as a
teenager in 76 the choice of decent music was very limited, either what
you could catch on tv or listen to John Peel or Alan Freeman on the
radio. The journalists you refer to did not influence my and many other
teenagers listening habits (and no doubt as Andrew states above jumped
bandwagons), but Peel did, a look at the change in his playlists will
confirm this over the period 76-78. Whilst 90% of punk was trash and in
terms of sales was a lot smaller than say Abba who dominated along with
Boney M! etc.
My point is that prog was so self centred that it
did not appeal to a mass market due to its complexity and the self
indulgence and pomposity of the musicians who needed a kick up the
bottom to realise it, hence punk and Johnny Rotten and Joe Strummer
calling year zero on music. Robert Wyatt on the programme accepted
change as did Genesis (of whom I was a fan alongside other bands of the
day, whether punk, prog or just good music), and managed to appeal to
different markets hence massive 80's success.
No doubt the X Factor will be looked on fondly in 30 years
gwynne61:Thank goodness for punk, prog was so pretentious, had forgotten about 1970's hairiness too
Hi gwynne61. Only just saw your post. Really sorry if it seemed I was having a go. I often get carried away on these sort of discussions. I love music and get quite passionate about it in case you hadn`t noticed! Guess Prog for me is a slightly more sensitive area than most. Heard so many people over the last 30 years coming out with all sorts of classic comments like `Punk wiped Prog off the face of the earth`!!!! `I`m not playing that on my programme!` and then playing Haysee Fantaysee (not sure if I`ve spelt that right). I`ve even had someone try to tell me that Carl Palmer can`t play the drums properly! How the hell do you play the drums `properly`!?! As well of course as the age old one already mentioned about Punk only existing because of Prog.
It always seemed a little unfair to me that you couldn`t hear Prog on the radio yet Boney M were having million sellers left right and centre! Oh well.
And yeah I do get what you`re saying in your second post.
Hope I didn`t cause offence. All the best!
Hi gwynne61. Only just saw your post. Really sorry if it seemed I was having a go. I often get carried away on these sort of discussions. I love music and get quite passionate about it in case you hadn`t noticed! Guess Prog for me is a slightly more sensitive area than most. Heard so many people over the last 30 years coming out with all sorts of classic comments like `Punk wiped Prog off the face of the earth`!!!! `I`m not playing that on my programme!` and then playing Haysee Fantaysee (not sure if I`ve spelt that right). I`ve even had someone try to tell me that Carl Palmer can`t play the drums properly! How the hell do you play the drums `properly`!?! As well of course as the age old one already mentioned about Punk only existing because of Prog.
It always seemed a little unfair to me that you couldn`t hear Prog on the radio yet Boney M were having million sellers left right and centre! Oh well.
And yeah I do get what you`re saying in your second post.
Hope I didn`t cause offence. All the best!
John Duncan
Well-known member
survivor:How the hell do you play the drums `properly`!?!
(circle widens round survivor......oh hello BIG Chris
)
(circle widens round survivor......oh hello BIG Chris
gwynne61
Well-known member
survivor:
gwynne61:Thank goodness for punk, prog was so pretentious, had forgotten about 1970's hairiness too
Hi gwynne61. Only just saw your post. Really sorry if it seemed I was having a go. I often get carried away on these sort of discussions. I love music and get quite passionate about it in case you hadn`t noticed! Guess Prog for me is a slightly more sensitive area than most. Heard so many people over the last 30 years coming out with all sorts of classic comments like `Punk wiped Prog off the face of the earth`!!!! `I`m not playing that on my programme!` and then playing Haysee Fantaysee (not sure if I`ve spelt that right). I`ve even had someone try to tell me that Carl Palmer can`t play the drums properly! How the hell do you play the drums `properly`!?! As well of course as the age old one already mentioned about Punk only existing because of Prog.
It always seemed a little unfair to me that you couldn`t hear Prog on the radio yet Boney M were having million sellers left right and centre! Oh well.
And yeah I do get what you`re saying in your second post.
Hope I didn`t cause offence. All the best!
No offence taken, music is a passionate business!
gwynne61:Thank goodness for punk, prog was so pretentious, had forgotten about 1970's hairiness too
Hi gwynne61. Only just saw your post. Really sorry if it seemed I was having a go. I often get carried away on these sort of discussions. I love music and get quite passionate about it in case you hadn`t noticed! Guess Prog for me is a slightly more sensitive area than most. Heard so many people over the last 30 years coming out with all sorts of classic comments like `Punk wiped Prog off the face of the earth`!!!! `I`m not playing that on my programme!` and then playing Haysee Fantaysee (not sure if I`ve spelt that right). I`ve even had someone try to tell me that Carl Palmer can`t play the drums properly! How the hell do you play the drums `properly`!?! As well of course as the age old one already mentioned about Punk only existing because of Prog.
It always seemed a little unfair to me that you couldn`t hear Prog on the radio yet Boney M were having million sellers left right and centre! Oh well.
And yeah I do get what you`re saying in your second post.
Hope I didn`t cause offence. All the best!
No offence taken, music is a passionate business!
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