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When should you upgrade your hi-fi? How to control ‘upgradeitis’
Pre & Power Amps?
- Thread starter JakBurn
- Start date
]The theory behind it is that by keeping the pre & power sections apart, both are able to attain higher quality.
The pre is needed to do source selection (CD, Tuner, Aux, etc, etc) and volume control. The power is the bit that actually does the amplifying.
You can't use one without the other. Only exceptions being adding power amps to integrated amps (as I have), which allows bi-amping of speakers (Integrated does the tweeters and the power does the woofers). But not all integrated amps have the facility to add a power amp, and you need speakers with twin sets of terminals. The other exception is you can use a pre-amp with active speakers as they have their own power amplification built in.
The pre is needed to do source selection (CD, Tuner, Aux, etc, etc) and volume control. The power is the bit that actually does the amplifying.
You can't use one without the other. Only exceptions being adding power amps to integrated amps (as I have), which allows bi-amping of speakers (Integrated does the tweeters and the power does the woofers). But not all integrated amps have the facility to add a power amp, and you need speakers with twin sets of terminals. The other exception is you can use a pre-amp with active speakers as they have their own power amplification built in.
SteveR750
Well-known member
All "one box" amps have separate sections - a pre-amp section and power amp section. Mainly because of the low voltages of the pre-amp signals and any processing that takes place (e.g. tone controls, equalisation etc) it is desirable to keep them electromagnetically apart. Putting them into separate boxes helps enormously, but you'll see one box amps referred to as integrated amplifiers, i.e. both pre and power amps are integrated into one box.
The curve ball with all this is that pre/power isn't always best. A Primare I30 integrated amp sounds better than the budget Rotel RC03/RB03 pre/power. For given pre and power amplifier components, it's always better to have them separated to avoid interactions between components.
question is do you actually need a Pre/power combo?
really all a preamplifier is, is a switching device, so if you just listen to CD's then if you have a CDplayer Like the Quad CD99 connected straight to the Quad 909 Power amp you really dont need a preamp getting in the way and degrading the sound.
really all a preamplifier is, is a switching device, so if you just listen to CD's then if you have a CDplayer Like the Quad CD99 connected straight to the Quad 909 Power amp you really dont need a preamp getting in the way and degrading the sound.
In that situation, the Quad CDP is acting as a passive preamp because it has the inbuilt function to attenuate the output signal. That's the thing, you need something to at least act as a volume control into the power amp, even if it's only for one input.
plastic penguin
Well-known member
JakBurn:
Could somebody explain to the uninitiated the purpose of and Why I would want/need both?
TIA
Agree with everything mentioned: Some manufactuers excel when their integrateds are bi-amped. For example, purchase an Arcam integrated or a Rotel and bi-amp them you certainly hear many people love to add a power amp.
Like igglebert says, some integrateds can sound better than separate pre/power amps. However, I don't think the example igs gave is the best - the Primare I30 retails around £1500 mark while the Rotel RB/RC combo can be had for around £600-700.
Could somebody explain to the uninitiated the purpose of and Why I would want/need both?
TIA
Agree with everything mentioned: Some manufactuers excel when their integrateds are bi-amped. For example, purchase an Arcam integrated or a Rotel and bi-amp them you certainly hear many people love to add a power amp.
Like igglebert says, some integrateds can sound better than separate pre/power amps. However, I don't think the example igs gave is the best - the Primare I30 retails around £1500 mark while the Rotel RB/RC combo can be had for around £600-700.
plastic penguin:Like igglebert says, some integrateds can sound better than separate pre/power amps. However, I don't think the example igs gave is the best - the Primare I30 retails around £1500 mark while the Rotel RB/RC combo can be had for around £600-700.
My thoughts exactly
My thoughts exactly
aliEnRIK:
plastic penguin:Like igglebert says, some integrateds can sound better than separate pre/power amps. However, I don't think the example igs gave is the best - the Primare I30 retails around £1500 mark while the Rotel RB/RC combo can be had for around £600-700.
My thoughts exactly
I don't know. OK, there is a budget discrepency with Igs's choices, but I think he was trying to get across that just by getting a pre-power combo, you're not instantly demolishing all integrateds in your path...... That's how I read it anyway..
In conclusion I'd say you'd have to listen to both options within your budget to see which you prefer.
plastic penguin:Like igglebert says, some integrateds can sound better than separate pre/power amps. However, I don't think the example igs gave is the best - the Primare I30 retails around £1500 mark while the Rotel RB/RC combo can be had for around £600-700.
My thoughts exactly
I don't know. OK, there is a budget discrepency with Igs's choices, but I think he was trying to get across that just by getting a pre-power combo, you're not instantly demolishing all integrateds in your path...... That's how I read it anyway..
In conclusion I'd say you'd have to listen to both options within your budget to see which you prefer.
Big Chris:aliEnRIK:
plastic penguin:Like igglebert says, some integrateds can sound better than separate pre/power amps. However, I don't think the example igs gave is the best - the Primare I30 retails around £1500 mark while the Rotel RB/RC combo can be had for around £600-700.
My thoughts exactly
I don't know. OK, there is a budget discrepency with Igs's choices, but I think he was trying to get across that just by getting a pre-power combo, you're not instantly demolishing all integrateds in your path...... That's how I read it anyway..
In conclusion I'd say you'd have to listen to both options within your budget to see which you prefer.
Im sure thats what he was trying to say. But to be fair, you need to compare similar priced units surely? (Also taking into account if its an av unit, thats quite a lot of cables needed too)
plastic penguin:Like igglebert says, some integrateds can sound better than separate pre/power amps. However, I don't think the example igs gave is the best - the Primare I30 retails around £1500 mark while the Rotel RB/RC combo can be had for around £600-700.
My thoughts exactly
I don't know. OK, there is a budget discrepency with Igs's choices, but I think he was trying to get across that just by getting a pre-power combo, you're not instantly demolishing all integrateds in your path...... That's how I read it anyway..
In conclusion I'd say you'd have to listen to both options within your budget to see which you prefer.
Im sure thats what he was trying to say. But to be fair, you need to compare similar priced units surely? (Also taking into account if its an av unit, thats quite a lot of cables needed too)
The simple answer is that it can in many cases sound better, but not always. Decide on your budget and let us know what speakers your plugging said amplifier/s into and i'm sure you will get a bunch of good ideas to pursue.
Nothing beats a demo!
Nothing beats a demo!
chebby
Well-known member
If you can comfortably afford seperates and don't mind the added visual impact/clutter/cabling (depending on your point of view) then try some out.
Slippery slope though.
Next you'll be wanting seperate PSUs, and then you'll want to try out bi-amping and before you know it, you'll be going on rainy camping holidays in Dorset - in a 10 year-old Astra estate - in order to save money to support an ever growing pile of exponentially more expensive boxes. (Knowing that somewhere there is a guy - like a 'Sliding Doors' hifi version of you who bought a good integrated instead - sunning himself on the porch of his rented beach-house in the Bahamas whilst surfing websites for his new BMW!)
Stop when your dealer starts hurling out other customers at the sight of you walking down the road (or paints your name on a reserved parking space at the rear of the shop.).
Slippery slope though.
Next you'll be wanting seperate PSUs, and then you'll want to try out bi-amping and before you know it, you'll be going on rainy camping holidays in Dorset - in a 10 year-old Astra estate - in order to save money to support an ever growing pile of exponentially more expensive boxes. (Knowing that somewhere there is a guy - like a 'Sliding Doors' hifi version of you who bought a good integrated instead - sunning himself on the porch of his rented beach-house in the Bahamas whilst surfing websites for his new BMW!)
Stop when your dealer starts hurling out other customers at the sight of you walking down the road (or paints your name on a reserved parking space at the rear of the shop.).
I have a NAD C320BEE, which i think has 50 wpc, combined with MA B2 speakers. It plays wonderful with music like Andrea Bocelli or Sade but when I throw rock music (mostly recordings from Hillsong Church), the performance is lacklustre (midrange is so so, bass is not there).
what has more impact to the sound quality? Does it the pre amp or the power amp section? I know both has impact to overall sound, just wondering which one has more impact. Does it need more power (I only listen at decent volume, the volume never goes above 9 o'clock with my NAD)
I am thinking to upgrade either pre amp or power as my NAD has both the pre out and main in (and buying the other piece when cash allows).
any inputs will be appreciated.
what has more impact to the sound quality? Does it the pre amp or the power amp section? I know both has impact to overall sound, just wondering which one has more impact. Does it need more power (I only listen at decent volume, the volume never goes above 9 o'clock with my NAD)
I am thinking to upgrade either pre amp or power as my NAD has both the pre out and main in (and buying the other piece when cash allows).
any inputs will be appreciated.
In my humble experience a good quality pre and power is always better. Far more control and grip on your speakers. What I DID experience though is that monoblocks are not always better. In theory it should always better but there are certain speakers that benefit more from a stereo poweramp. There's a certain unity in a stereo poweramp that's not always there with the monoblocks. For bigger speakers and bigger rooms which need the power, drive, effortlessness the monoblocks are the obvious choice.
what caused the better grip and control? Because of the bigger power (as power amp usually have bigger power than integrated) or because of the signal separation? (as low level signal of pre amp will not intefered by the high current of power amp)
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