Pre + power amps - what are pros/cons, please?

[6th.replicant]

Aside from wall-shaking volume levels, can anyone please explain the advantages, and disadvantages, of pre/power amp combos? Ta v much. [😀]

 

[Anonymous]

It's about isolating the main power supply in the amp from the delicate signal paths in the pre-section to give less interference and produce a cleaner, higher quality sound. The high cost of them is an obvious negative but also having an extra box/boxes, requires more room.
Personally, I've always gone for pre/power combo's over integrated amps as the potential for upgrading/adding power amps to biamp or run as mono blocs is very appealing.

 

[6th.replicant]

Thanks for reply.

Hmm, tempting - my A70 is designed to also hook up to a power amp.

Is it OK to mix manufacturers in a power/pre amp combo?

Ta, again.

 

[scene]

The issue with pre/power amp combos is to ensure that the gain is matched between the pre and power amp stages. Hence why people tend to get them from the same manufacturer. But you don't have to....

 

[Frank Harvey]

Pre/powers tend to be 'tighter' sounding, with better grip and dynamic capabilities than many integrated amplifiers. Due to the extra power generally on tap from pre/powers, they tend to sound the same at higher volumes as they do low, rather than changing for the worse like many, lower powered integrated amplifiers.

As far as upgrading is concerned, if you want better quality, get a better pre-amp - if you want more power, get a better power amp.

 

[6th.replicant]

FrankHarveyHiFi:...As far as upgrading is concerned, if you want better quality, get a better pre-amp - if you want more power, get a better power amp...
So if I add an Arcam power amp to my A70 I'll only notice extra oomph, not improved sound quality?

 

[SteveR750]

FrankHarveyHiFi:
Pre/powers tend to be 'tighter' sounding, with better grip and dynamic capabilities than many integrated amplifiers. Due to the extra power generally on tap from pre/powers, they tend to sound the same at higher volumes as they do low, rather than changing for the worse like many, lower powered integrated amplifiers.

As far as upgrading is concerned, if you want better quality, get a better pre-amp - if you want more power, get a better power amp.

David, I'm sure you posted somewhere that ATC SCM11s need a decent power amp with good current capability to make them work properly, so doesn't a hefty (read high current) power amp have all other things being equal have a similarly beneficial effect?

 

[aliEnRIK]

6th.replicant:FrankHarveyHiFi:...As far as upgrading is concerned, if you want better quality, get a better pre-amp - if you want more power, get a better power amp...
So if I add an Arcam power amp to my A70 I'll only notice extra oomph, not improved sound quality?

BI AMPING definitely adds to sound quality (Unless the speakers very poory designed). He wasnt talking about biamping when he said about upgrading the power amp

 

[Frank Harvey]

6th.replicant:FrankHarveyHiFi:...As far as upgrading is concerned, if you want better quality, get a better pre-amp - if you want more power, get a better power amp... So if I add an Arcam power amp to my A70 I'll only notice extra oomph, not improved sound quality?

Generally, yes. Many power amps are just integrated amps with the pre-amp stripped out, so quality-wise are no different to the integrated amplifiers. Some power amps do use better quality components and will genuinely make things sound better as well as giving better power delivery.

I'd normally recommend an pre-amp upgrade or adding a dedicated pre-amp to an integrated amp (so the integrated amp acts as a power amp) in order to improve sound quality. The basic rule is pre-amp for quality, power amp for power, although that shouldn't always be taken as gospel.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Bi-amping does help with some speakers, but some manufacturers like Spendor and Dynaudio believe that it is better to upgrade the power amp to a better one than to add another power amplifier the same.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi 6th, don,t know if there are any disadvantages as per with a pre-power combo, have listened to a few so called good quality integrated amps running nice speakers and indeed they have sounded good, but when changed over to a pre-power combo it always sounded to me as if the music was more controlled especially at low listening levels, don,t know if you get more volume, but when it is turned up, rather than sheer power i would say that it sounds voluptious, if you could use that word to describe music.

 

[6th.replicant]

Thanks for replies.

JohnnyJazz, what you say makes sense, ta.

But, umm, what's "bi-amping" and what does it involve?

Tried Google for an explanation and all seem to be written in a language I don't understand...

Anyone round here speak 'idiot', please?

 

[aliEnRIK]

6th.replicant:Thanks for replies.

JohnnyJazz, what you say makes sense, ta.

But, umm, what's "bi-amping" and what does it involve?

Tried Google for an explanation and all seem to be written in a language I don't understand...

Anyone round here speak 'idiot', please?

To BI-AMP you requite to amplifiers

You also require speakers with a twin set of terminals (Once to drive high frequencies, one for the rest)

So youd have the source (say a cd player) conencted the integrated amp (there are other ways, but ill keep it simple) youd run pair of wires to both the left and right speakers (Usually the treble)

Then out of the integrated amps 'pre out' sockets you fit another pair of phonos to a 'power amp'. That has another pair of speaker cables fitted to the other fittings on the speaker.

BI-AMPING is basically having one amp run the treble side of things and the other amp driving everything else. Keeping the signal cleaner and generally giving a much tighter and natural sound

Whats a MUST is that the connectors between the HF and LF MUST BE REMOVED else you'd damage something
EDITED BY MODS (AGAIN) for House Ruleshttp://www.audiotrends.com.au/documents/BenefitsofBi-wiringandBi-amping.pdf

 

[6th.replicant]

Thanks, aliEnRIK.

So, in order to bi-amp, I'll need to add a power-amp to my pre-amp?

I assume (my existing) b-wire speaker cable will suffice?

Thanks, again.

 

[Anonymous]

6th, in order to bi-amp you would need 1 pre-amp running 2 power amps that are the same ie mono-blocks, why don,t you sell your amp and buy 1 pre-amp and 1 power amp, the sound would be better than you are getting or trying to achieve just now i would think.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Or you would need to add a P75, P80, P85 or even a P90 to your A70...

 

[6th.replicant]

johnnyjazz:6th, in order to bi-amp you would need 1 pre-amp running 2 power amps that are the same ie mono-blocks, why don,t you sell your amp and buy 1 pre-amp and 1 power amp, the sound would be better than you are getting or trying to achieve just now i would think.
Thanks for reply.

I'm pretty certain I only 'need' a power-amp, because my existing amp, an A70, functions as either an integrated or a pre-amp. I think..?

[EDIT] Ah, OK, just noticed AE's post, above. Thanks.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Indeed: you could use the A70 as a pre, with a pair of external power amps, or you could use it to drive the treble part of the speakers, with the external power amp running the low frequency section.

 

[6th.replicant]

Andrew Everard:Indeed: you could use the A70 as a pre, with a pair of external power amps, or you could use it to drive the treble part of the speakers, with the external power amp running the low frequency section.

If I choose the latter option, can I use (my existing) b-wire speaker cable?

Ta.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Yes, provided it has four plugs at each end.

 

[6th.replicant]

Thanks for reply.

Ta-dah! Yes, it does, with 'Air dooh dahs' (which were expensive IMO

).

Ooo! Ooo! A70 + power-amp + bi-amping = overwhelming feelings of child-like excitement.

Amex!

 

[6th.replicant]

Thanks to all for advice - much appreciated.

P38 power amp and Chord ChameleonPlus ordered...

 

[6th.replicant]

P38 and Chord ChameleonPlus arrived.

Hooked everything up, managed to get my head 'round the bi-amping's connections.

So, like what I'm now hearing: awesome separation; tighter and deeper bass; cleaner treble; improved detail (eg hearing drummer's brushes during Miles Davis's Blue In Green, from Kind Of Blue, that I've never noticed before). In short, a marked improvement overall.

BUT, I've noticed that when playing music where the band is a trio or quartet, be it classical, jazz or rock/pop, the music sounds alive - which is bloomin' marvellous

- however, in comparison, when it's a full-on orchestra or a multi-tracked/multi-instrument performance, my speakers sound as if they're 'capped'/'clipped', unable to fully release the sound/'breathe', which previously was never an issue.

Any thoughts?

Ta.

 

[JoelSim]

Yes. Upgrade the A70 to an A32 or A38 to match the P38.

 

[6th.replicant]

JoelSim:Yes. Upgrade the A70 to an A32 or A38 to match the P38.
Thanks for reply.

So you don't think it's a case of the speakers not being 'able to cope'? It's just that I never noticed such a marked difference when the A70 was the sole amp.

Ta, again.