Pre-amp with DAC options

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Dan Turner

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Jul 9, 2007
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Hi

I've currently got a Creek OBH-12 pre-amp and a Cambridge Audio DAC-magic which I am very pleased with sonically. For the sake of practicality and cutting down on the box-count I was wondering whether there was a pre-amp with a DAC built in that would match well with my Arcam power amps and PMCs. Whilst I'm at it, for the sort of money that it's likely to cost me the new pre-amp/DAC should be a decent upgrade too!

I noted with great interest that the What Hi-Fi experts recommended to someone in the current issue that the Cyrus 8XPd was a better option than a DAC-Magic plus an alternative integrated amp. I'm wondering whether this means that the DAC section of the 8XPd is better than a DAC-Magic? If so then I'd consider the Pre-XPd. Or should I be looking at the Qx version (does anyone know what the difference is and how much better it is exactly?) or even the Dac-XP+...

The other thing that I can't help wondering about is whether going back to an active pre-amp is going to be a bit of a downward step from the Creek unless I spend silly money. Moving from an Arcam A32/P35 to the Creek + Arcam P35/P38 was a revelation in terms of clarity, detail and dynamics.

Any thoughts welcome! Cheers!
 
My setup is a Cyrus CD XT-SE feeding a DAC-X feeding a PreVS2 feeding twin 8-powers. All are 2008/2009 models. Just as I finish the setup Cyrus revamp their range - in best Homer Simpson "Doh!!!".

I originally didn't go down the DAC XP (preamp with built in DAC) route because it didn't have enough analogue inputs for me, but the new Pre XPd seems to have improved on that.

My remaining reservation on one-box DAC / pre-amp units is that the options for upgrading incrementally become more limited, e.g. now Cyrus has come out with a new wizz-bang DAC X+, I can upgrade the DAC X on its own, leaving the more than perfectly adequate analogue side alone. Okay Cyrus say that an integrated DAC/pre-amp setup is better to begin with, and that they will upgrade their integrated unit as and when, but when you look at what Cyrus typically charge for upgrades you're better off buying a new unit outright and flogging the old one on EBay.

As for the Qx DAC vs standard, you would have thought at the price point Cyrus aim for, they'd have put their best DAC in as a matter of course. I mean, who heard of Aston Martin selling a DB9 with a Mondeo power plant?

Edit - reading between the lines of the blurb on the Cyrus website - maybe the Qx module is aimed more at improved DAC performance for computer based music files? Dunno. Only guessing. Would be interested to hear from the WHF staff of their "professional ears" opinion of a side-by-side comparison between the various setup options.

Me? I'm sticking with what I've got. Until studio quality 24-bit source media are available (and I don't mean by pay per play downloads) I can't see much headroom for further improvement from the "humble" CD format.
 
I've said it before but I really think that this is the way forward for hi fi. Apart from turntables nearly all sources now have digital outputs so it seems daft to me that amplifiers still have just analogue inputs. I really think that Cyrus have got the idea in offering upgradeable amp / dac combinations. Upgradeability is a key issue for me here as digital technology never stands still for long, an analogue amp may well be good for 20 years of use but in the digital world you are lucky if you stay up to date after 20 months.

There are not too many pre amp dacs on sale that I know of. Perhaps in addition to Cyrus you could look at Linn, Benchmark or Bel Canto although I have not heard any of them. Bryston also sell a pre amp that can have a DAC module fitted but that is kind of pricey.

I would suggest perhaps holding on for a while as I think (hope) that the preamp / dac is going to start becoming a mainstream hi fi product in the near future. It might be worth taking a look at the CES show reports from Las Vagas on Stereophile.com which shows that preamp / dac combos are starting to creep on to the market although stereophile stuff is typically at some pretty steep prices.

On an off tangent note, how comes all the WHFS&V CES reports were about TV's. The Stereophile site shows loads of new hi fi stuff was being unveiled as well. (Hopefully it is not against forum rules to talk about another website).
 
peachtree audio nova has dac built in plus digital inputs as does some naim gear and hk
 
demartin_1: an analogue amp may well be good for 20 years of use but in the digital world you are lucky if you stay up to date after 20 months.

Which is precisely why I can see a logic in keeping the digital and analogue in separate boxes.

Unless the analogue pre-amp is a relatively small cost delta over the basic DAC - and right now it isn't - you'd be pouring money down the drain if you were forced to junk (or flog for peanuts) the analogue pre-amp side every time you wanted to upgrade the DAC side.

Comparing the cost of the Cyrus DAC X+ (£1500) plus a Pre VS2 (no longer listed but was about £800) a total of about £2300, compared to the DAC XP+ at £2500, and the cost is about the same. HOWEVER if I have to junk the DAC X+ in favour of a new DAC my maximum exposure is £1500 (assuming I can't flog the old unit on EBay), whereas it would be £2500 if I had to junk the DAC XP+.

I don't buy into Cyrus's upgradeability ploy, I'm afraid. From experience of getting prices for upgrades it is quite clear to me that flogging the old unit and buying a brand new box is more economic than upgrading, plus you don't have to sit around for a couple of weeks / months with no stereo, and I think Cyrus know it.
 
I'm possibly on the lookout for a:

Monarchy Audio M24 - Use your search engine to find

Reviewed extremely well and not too expensive though may be difficult to obtain in this country. Has tubes.
 
Multipurpose and small box count is becoming more and more common. I would go by what the product is advertised as to see what its emphasis is. For example, the MF X-CANV8P headphone amp, which can also be a preamp and a DAC, but it is marketed as a headphone amp.
 
Thanks for all the replies so far. minimum I need 3 digital inputs or 2 digital plus one analogue, but ideally with 4 or 5 digital inputs and I could connect airport express, blu-ray, pvr & tuner all simultaneously via digital.

Crucially quality has to be at least as good as my creek passive pre and Dac-magic.
 
matengawhat:
the amount of inputs you want will lower your options and will write off all headphone amps pretty much

did you check out the cyrus pre xpd series?

Yes that's what I'm most interested in at the moment. I'm wondering whether the dac section is as good as my dac-magic or the pre-amp section as good as my creek though. Convenience isn't worth a downgrade or even a sideways step sonically at £1300.
 
Personally I have been totally happy with my Bryston BP26 DA. The dac option was a bit pricey, but it is truly a great dac.
 
Darren Heal:
.....I can't see much headroom for further improvement from the "humble" CD format.

You definitely need to hear some of the latest highend DAC's. I'm just auditioning a Chord QBD76 in my system, this DAC is giving me a sound that I've never heard from 16bit/44.1k digital before and 24bit/96k is really quite something. The outgoing DAC is a Cyrus DAC/XP which the Chord improves upon by quite a good margin.
 
Word to the wise - there's a Cyrus Pre XPd new in cellophane - unwanted insurance replacement apparently - on EBay right now....

It's not mine and IF I had any spare cash (which I don't right now) I might have been tempted myself.
 
IanS1:Darren Heal:

.....I can't see much headroom for further improvement from the "humble" CD format.

You definitely need to hear some of the latest highend DAC's. I'm just auditioning a Chord QBD76 in my system, this DAC is giving me a sound that I've never heard from 16bit/44.1k digital before and 24bit/96k is really quite something. The outgoing DAC is a Cyrus DAC/XP which the Chord improves upon by quite a good margin.

To be fair, the Chord QBD76 is, what, over twice the price of a DAC-X, which is a fairer price comparison than the DAC-XP, and for three grand one would expect the Chord DAC to really perform.
 
Have I missed something, or did no one really mention the Benchmark DAC1 HDR?

There's also the remote-less DAC1 PRE. Both has an analog input in addition to the digital ones.

For the less fortunate, there's inexpensive solutions along the same line.
 
Darren Heal:To be fair, the Chord QBD76 is, what, over twice the price of a DAC-X, which is a fairer price comparison than the DAC-XP, and for three grand one would expect the Chord DAC to really perform.

Very true, but price issues aside the point I was trying to make is that CD 16bit/44.1k audio has got plenty of headroom in it yet.
 
IanS1:Darren Heal:To be fair, the Chord QBD76 is, what, over twice the price of a DAC-X, which is a fairer price comparison than the DAC-XP, and for three grand one would expect the Chord DAC to really perform. Very true, but price issues aside the point I was trying to make is that CD 16bit/44.1k audio has got plenty of headroom in it yet.

Point taken, but for three grand I'd expect the Royal Philharmonic to turn up en masse and set up in the back garden....
 
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