Power cable / speaker cable quandary

[QuestForThe13thNote]

don’t know what to do now. I just bought the Titan Styx power bar and 3 Helios power cables, on order. But I’m regretting deciding on the two Helios power cables to my cyrus mono x200sig power amps. On lots of music the bass line goes too deep, and with the powerful pmc twenty5 23s I have. I took my chord epic reference speaker wire off due to excess hazey treble, which is in part due to the extra detail I’m getting from the power cables and loads of current into the power amps.

on some tracks without such a strong bass line they are ok, so I maybe need to try a mains cable (to power amps) without so much current going through it, but then this might affect the detail ability of the power amps from having all that current, such detail I’d rather not trade off.

i just bought some atlas hyper 2.0 (2mm)which is slightly thinner gauge than the talk 3 (which i think is 2.5mm or maybe 3mm by virtue of 3 in talk 3). The hyper is being sent next week.

What shall I do? go and borrow the Titan Tyco cables he has which have half the current according to Titan (although they are keeping current delivery figures close to their chest) or await the hyper to decide and see if it tunes the sound to more acceptable bass. Or any other suggestions. I think room placement cannot be compromised.

Many thanks for any help.

 

[andyjm]

don’t know what to do now. I just bought the Titan Styx power bar and 3 Helios power cables, on order. But I’m regretting deciding on the two Helios power cables to my cyrus mono x200sig power amps. On lots of music the bass line goes too deep, and with the powerful pmc twenty5 23s I have. I took my chord epic reference speaker wire off due to excess hazey treble, which is in part due to the extra detail I’m getting from the power cables and loads of current into the power amps.

on some tracks without such a strong bass line they are ok, so I maybe need to try a mains cable (to power amps) without so much current going through it, but then this might affect the detail ability of the power amps from having all that current, such detail I’d rather not trade off.

i just bought some atlas hyper 2.0 (2mm)which is slightly thinner gauge than the talk 3 (which i think is 2.5mm or maybe 3mm by virtue of 3 in talk 3). The hyper is being sent next week.

What shall I do? go and borrow the Titan Tyco cables he has which have half the current according to Titan (although they are keeping current delivery figures close to their chest) or await the hyper to decide and see if it tunes the sound to more acceptable bass. Or any other suggestions. I think room placement cannot be compromised.

Many thanks for any help.

Quest,

You seem a reasonable chap with a real interest in the hobby, but I am afraid you are talking complete nonsense here.

I don't know if it is some guy you are speaking to who is feeding you this tripe and trying to sell you a mains lead, but can I suggest you speak to one of the dealers who post on here who actually know what they are talking about before you part with any more of your money. Davedotco seems to be voice of reason and may be worth contacting.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

How am I talking nonsense. Please enlighten me.

 

[davedotco]

Thanks for the kind plug, but I would no more discuss cables with Quest than I would stick needles in my eyes!

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

Sticks and stones then...maybe abacus can come on and tell me the deal then.lol.

 

[CnoEvil]

I agree with Andyjm, in so far as spending money in the blind hope of sorting the problem through a variety of cables, could easily be a blind alley.

I think that your best hope, is ringing the likes of Advanced Acoustics (I've met the guys and heard what they can do), or GIK Acoustics (who have posted on here in the past)...and see what their advice is.

Maybe the first thing to do, is measure what is going on in your room

You could also check out to see if you can get a dem of Isoacoustic Gaia feet.

Is the floor that the speakers are sitting on made of concrete (rather than a suspended wooden one)?

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

Ok thanks for reply, but I don’t see it as spending money in the blind. I think it’s a very reasoned thing to go for a lesser diameter cable to resolve bass issues.

I suppose a number of questions arrise as to

a) current going into the amps and effect on sound, in difference to standard power cables

b) effect of the different properties on speaker wires on sound.

I should say Im really not interested in anyone who doesn’t believe cables can make a difference. This is really question to people who accept that cables can make a differnenxe, and I’m not interested in people turning it into a cable debate, as seems to have happened.

 

[Al ears]

Thanks for the kind plug, but I would no more discuss cables with Quest than I would stick needles in my eyes!

Does same apply for anyone else?

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

Oh sorry, your question - its concrete floor on a thin underlay and carpet. I don’t think acoustic things are worthy of messing around as we have what we live in, unless the money to have a dedicated listening room.

The isolation feet is a good idea for certain types of speakers I’d geuss, but the bloat is there even at modest levels and touching the speakers spikes I can feel absolutely zero vibration, so the level of speaker vibration interacting with the floor would be limited. The ones they show off at shows are bigger speaker, on louder, too. The pmcs not only have absorbing bars screwed onto cork washers, so they aren’t touching the speakers, but the speakers spikes screw into the bars. Also cup washers on the carpet.

 

[davedotco]

Thanks for the kind plug, but I would no more discuss cables with Quest than I would stick needles in my eyes!

Does same apply for anyone else?

Not at all. I believe that cables can and do make differences in hi-fi systems, in some cases at least.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

I do think that some of these acoustic feet are very interesting cnoevil. The townshend ones, but I really do think the issue is with the type of power cables and the current going throug, and just a re tweaking of the sound.

 

[CnoEvil]

I believe in the benefit of Power Cables, because I choose to believe in what I hear, over the often well meaning advice from people who say it simply can't happen.

I generally don't get involved any more, unless someone is specifically asking for my experience....which doesn't mean I'm right.

I do think different brands of Cable sound different. I have also found that they generally bring an improvement and have the biggest effect on Amps. My Linn DS doesn't sound any better with the cables I have tried on it.

If you now have a bass problem, when previously you didn't, then I certainly don't think you are imagining it.

Atlas Hyper are solid sounding, neutral cables...which could well sound better than what you have....but they may not...and they are unlikely to solve your bass problem.

IMO. The answer is likely to lie with isolation and cleverly placed acoustic panels at the first reflection points...but you don't want to find this out, after you have wasted money chasing your tail.

You are running blind, until you measure what is going on in your room...some dealers offer this service, or the 2 companies I mentioned above should have ideas.

All rooms have bass Modes...and you may now be agitating a certain frequency more than before....and square rooms are the most problematical.

 

[CnoEvil]

I do think that some of these acoustic feet are very interesting cnoevil. The townshend ones, but I really do think the issue is with the type of power cables and the current going throug, and just a re tweaking of the sound.

I've a feeling that you are going to take your own path, no matter i say...which is fine....just don't spend a lot of money without knowing it will give you what you want. It's easy to get into an expensive tail spin, leaving you frustrated and out of pocket...and going back to what you originally had.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

Thanks for thoughts, I would try the feet on sale and return if only out of curiosity, but I just think they are a bit of a waste of money, if I can’t reason why I’m buying them and as I say I cant feel any vibration. You put your hand on top of these pmcs at modest to low levels and there is very minimal vibration, if at all. That’s not to say there is no minute floor interaction, but it’s a question of how much, against the more fundamental cable changes, which are more causative. Lawyers use proximate cause, the cause if you take out all others, where the same thing happens. In my case the proximate cause was the cable changes, so that’s what I’m looking at. The power cables bring a decent change, and as I’m probably selling the chord epic reference anyway I’ve got £300-£400 from that.

Id be interested in how much current some of these power cables let through against current on a kettle lead. Whether it’s a big difference or not, I suspect even if it’s small, it has big effects on good amps in sound quality.

 

[CnoEvil]

Did you hear the IsoAcoustic demo at the audio show?

I seem to remember at a previous show, Ellisdj posted up the A/B demo of the Gaia (I think on some expensive Focals)...and I could hear a difference on my laptop speakers.

These things work, even on expensive, well designed speakers...by cleaning up and tightening the sound.....and imo is likely to have a bigger effect than a cable change.

Maybe a call to Isoacoustic would clarify what you can expect - where is Ellis when you need him, as he's the one who has heard these things demoed.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

spending £600 on these power cables and selling my chords for say £400 and then spending around £100 or £200 on some new or used speaker wire is a very worthy upgrade, and only £300 ish outlay. That’s how I’m looking at it.

Ive learnt from experience of trying these power cords and dedicated star wired power block that the improvement in sound quality with power cords in my system is more fundamental than the speaker wire improvements. Spending £600 on these power cables and using cheap £4/m speaker wire is much more comparable to using epic reference at £600 with bog standard leads. If I can tune it a bit more with speaker wire and power lead combos, it will be lovely, but im not really wanting to effect all that lovely current into the amps.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

That was at the indulgence show I went to last year,where I saw Ellis. It was a big speaker quite loud, and it was hardly surprising the difference made, but my view was a) I don’t listen very loud much of the time, b) most other people don’t, c) most people don’t own such big speakers I recall they were using. I think it will depend on the design. I might borrow some just on sale and return and feed back results!. If they are only a few hundred quid

 

[CnoEvil]

In this thread, a guy with Fact 8s describe the improvement he heard....as well as a guy with Blades, which virtually eliminate internal vibration with opposing drivers, even measured the difference.

https://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?tid=4483

They will almost certainly change/improve the sound...hopefully in a way that helps.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

To be fair though, If you’ve got fact 8s or blades you’d probably listen loud or louder, as otherwise what would be the point of such speakers. I suspect the effect is not proportional but a log scale ie once you listen louder the effect of speakers interacting with the floor is much more marked. Just like room interaction with bass.

 

[ellisdj]

sorry CNo wrapped up in making videos.
next one is a cracker 20 hours to render yesterday only to realise I made a mistake and had to start again.

get this 15 hours into the next render windows update decided to restart my computer so I am on run 3 going to be 50 hours just to make one video savage.

The IsoAcoustics gaia demo is clear as day I filmed them again at Bristol on focal aria 926 a much smaller speaker and still the difference was there.

I dont know if they will give you less bass but sure tighter bass yes very probably.

I have some coming soon actually looking forward to trying them out.

I dont think changing speaker cable is a bad thing but for leaning bass out its the wrong way to go mate.

Tellerium q I would look at or high level audioquest and try diamond wire the speakers as well.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

I think just to lower slam of bass as it can be irksome. totally not sure now as I was listening last night and every detail gets through. It might be too much, but maybe I’m just not used to it.

 

[ellisdj]

Try diamond wiring the speakers - in positive treble out negative bass and then link as normal.

For ever I have wired into the bass and linked to the treble. It was suggested I diamond wire and I also saw Dr Jack OClee Brown setup KEF REF 5 for the stereophile review that way as well. I changed speaker cable at the same time but it gave my sound a different balance - less heavy for sure

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

How would I do that with my pmcs. Interesting reading another thread here on what hi Fi about power cords with what some others on here say. I suspect if they studied what’s going on properly they would revise their view. My impression with lots of these threads is it’s the blind talking to the blind.

 

[ellisdj]

If the only have 1 set of terminals you cant I thought they had 2?

The range before had 2 - forget that idea

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

No worries, thanks for trying a solution. I’m sure the effects of these power cables are much more complicated than the usual reasons given. To understand this I think you actually have to sit down and study electrical engineering at a high level eg degree level, way beyond my patience or wishes, to take a view as to what’s going on, but I’d geuss you’d have to know exactly what’s going on the circuits of the components too. Far better to mess about and experiment like i am with various cables. It may work, it might not.