PMC TB2is - how do they compare?

[plastic penguin]

Has anyone tested or own these speakers. If so, how do they compare to DB1i's and price compatible monitors from other brands?

 

[Ragworm]

I've a pair of TB2+s which I'm very happy with. I've also auditioned all three versions of the DB1 (original, + and i). The DB1s are a fantastic little speaker but there was a harshness to the treble that seemed to leave an unpleasant "aftertaste". The DB1+ pretty much eradicated this. I heard a very early pair of DB1is and they seemed to be "breathy" to me but I put this down to them not being run in properly. Comparing the TB2+ with the DB1+ I would say that the DB1 has less but better quality bass. The imaging of the DB1 is probably also a little better than the TB2.

The choice really depends on what the rest of your system is like and how big your room is. I auditioned quite a few speakers before settling on the TB2+ (see here: http://community.whathifi.com/forums/post/55354.aspx).

 

[plastic penguin]

Thanks - I recently tested out DB1i's with my Arcam set-up and they were really good. However I found the Arcam struggled with the lowest frequencies, sounding slightly flat. I narrowed it down to the deficiencies of the amp and wondered, as the TB2's are larger, whether that would give me the extra scale without losing the qualities of the other frequencies.

Ironically, when I heard the old GB1's on my amp it sounded great, albeit it was a fairly brief audition.

 

[plastic penguin]

Just wondering why there's been hardly any reference to this particular model when the DB1 and GB1 are regularly featured. So how do they stack up pond-for-pound to the DB1's/GB1's and similarly-priced standmounters?

 

[Anonymous]

Sounds like you should consider "more amp" and the DB1s rather than the same with the TB2s. You might just end up with uncontrolled bass.

 

[plastic penguin]

igglebert:Sounds like you should consider "more amp" and the DB1s rather than the same with the TB2s. You might just end up with uncontrolled bass.

I am, honest!

. I will be after the Leema but what CDP I choose will depend on speakers - and vice-versa.

 

[Anonymous]

I am seriously considering buying the TB2i later this year. I may still consider the DB1i, though I usually gravitate to 6.5 inch drivers rather than a 5.25". However, I also just got a Martin Logan sub that is sealed and rated to 25Hz. So perhaps I can get by with the cheaper DB1i (or any other smaller monitor - I'm considering various other brands).

I was able to try the TB2i in home for a couple of days this past summer and frankly they are the best speaker I've ever heard. I'm sure there are better speakers, but from what I've heard so far and my tastes these really did it. The new SEAS tweeter they use is a real beauty, very airy with no harshness to speak of. This is what I've found over time, that I hate those really harsh highs. I can only describe the midrange as really lush and rich sounding. Bass is rated down to 40Hz, and sounds like it. Bass is full but not boomy. When you knock on the speaker it sounds like you are knocking on a chunk of ice. It's solid. When I had these speakers I just wanted to play more and more music. The TB2i is the most expensive speaker I'm considering and I'll be comparing everything else I hear to it.

The DB1i I heard briefly at a retailer. The bass was shockingly good from such a small speaker, and I recall it being every bit as musical as the TB2i. You will probably lose some sense of scale, but may gain in other areas (tighter bass perhaps).

 

[plastic penguin]

Fusion:

I am seriously considering buying the TB2i later this year. I may still consider the DB1i, though I usually gravitate to 6.5 inch drivers rather than a 5.25". However, I also just got a Martin Logan sub that is sealed and rated to 25Hz. So perhaps I can get by with the cheaper DB1i (or any other smaller monitor - I'm considering various other brands).

I was able to try the TB2i in home for a couple of days this past summer and frankly they are the best speaker I've ever heard. I'm sure there are better speakers, but from what I've heard so far and my tastes these really did it. The new SEAS tweeter they use is a real beauty, very airy with no harshness to speak of. This is what I've found over time, that I hate those really harsh highs. I can only describe the midrange as really lush and rich sounding. Bass is rated down to 40Hz, and sounds like it. Bass is full but not boomy. When you knock on the speaker it sounds like you are knocking on a chunk of ice. It's solid. When I had these speakers I just wanted to play more and more music. The TB2i is the most expensive speaker I'm considering and I'll be comparing everything else I hear to it.

The DB1i I heard briefly at a retailer. The bass was shockingly good from such a small speaker, and I recall it being every bit as musical as the TB2i. You will probably lose some sense of scale, but may gain in other areas (tighter bass perhaps).

Interesting comments, Fusion.

Is there too much made of tight bass? whatever happened to a woofer sounding like a woofer and hearing a bit of grunt and groan. Because it has bigger bass, does that mean uncontrolled bottom end?

The old adage of less is more, I think, maybe taken too far.

 

[Anonymous]

I demo'd the following speakers at a local dealer: ProAc Studio 110, Linn Majik 109, PMC TB2i. Amp: Rotel RA-06 integrated (60 watts). Music: classical (chamber and symphonic).

The TB2 was by far the best, immediately producing a realistic soundstage and disappearing. The other speakers had me moving my head around and fiddling with positioning (admittedly I didn't do a thorough search for good positions). There was plenty of detail and texture in the TB2 that was blurred out (muddy) in the others. I would have liked the bass to come forward more, but the bass that was there was clear.

The Linns were quite listenable (not harsh), and became more pleasant over the course of an hour (perhaps they were not fully broken in yet, as suggested by the store rep). But they had a bit of an inside-a-box sound that prevented the illusion from being convincing. The after-glow of some notes also seemed to die abruptly. Nonetheless, I could certainly live with them.

I was disappointed in the ProAc 110's, as I own a pair of ProAc Tablette 2000's that I am very happy with. The TB2 probably provides more detail than the Tablette 2000 (I haven't tried them in the same setup yet), but I find the Tablette 2000's imaging quite convincing, and not at all harsh.

If anyone has other suggestions for a replacement for ProAc Tablette 2000's, I'm all ears. ProAc Studio 100? PMC DB1i? (The amp is non-negotiable; I am reusing it from a previous setup.)

 

[plastic penguin]

antimony:

I demo'd the following speakers at a local dealer: ProAc Studio 110, Linn Majik 109, PMC TB2i. Amp: Rotel RA-06 integrated (60 watts). Music: classical (chamber and symphonic).

The TB2 was by far the best, immediately producing a realistic soundstage and disappearing. The other speakers had me moving my head around and fiddling with positioning (admittedly I didn't do a thorough search for good positions). There was plenty of detail and texture in the TB2 that was blurred out (muddy) in the others. I would have liked the bass to come forward more, but the bass that was there was clear.

The Linns were quite listenable (not harsh), and became more pleasant over the course of an hour (perhaps they were not fully broken in yet, as suggested by the store rep). But they had a bit of an inside-a-box sound that prevented the illusion from being convincing. The after-glow of some notes also seemed to die abruptly. Nonetheless, I could certainly live with them.

I was disappointed in the ProAc 110's, as I own a pair of ProAc Tablette 2000's that I am very happy with. The TB2 probably provides more detail than the Tablette 2000 (I haven't tried them in the same setup yet), but I find the Tablette 2000's imaging quite convincing, and not at all harsh.

If anyone has other suggestions for a replacement for ProAc Tablette 2000's, I'm all ears. ProAc Studio 100? PMC DB1i? (The amp is non-negotiable; I am reusing it from a previous setup.)

How do the TB1s compare price-wise with the others you tested?

After hearing the DBs I'm quite smitten by their sound and they are definitely in pole position when I decide to upgrade. Whether the TBs are worth the premium or not that's another question all together....

What's more interesting is you tried them with the Rotel RA-06 - not substantially better than mine.

 

[Dan Turner]

I have the TB2+ which I originally bought back in 2002 as the TB2 and upgraded a couple of years ago. Great speakers, but as I'm just discovering I hadn't heard what they were capable of until I got my Naim amplifier. The Arcam A32 I was originally using and latterly the A32/P35 combo, then Creek OBH-12/Arcam P35+P38 just couldn't cut it. It sounded good but lacked excitement and dynamics.

The Naim SuperNait has them singing, so I can believe the Naim XS would also be a great partner, but honestly don't underestimate how much amp they need to sound their best. I think Naim/PMC is evidently a very happy combo.

I can't comment on the relative bass quality/quantity between TB2 and DB1, having never heard the latter, but in isolation the TB2+s on the end of my Naim go far deeper than I could ever have expected and are as tight and controlled as I could hope for.

 

[Anonymous]

plastic penguin:
How do the TB1s compare price-wise with the others you tested?

TB2i = £1125, Linn Majik 109 = £915, ProAc Studio 110 = £800 incl VAT.

 

[MattSPL]

I used to own a pair of DB1i's.

Great speaker for their size with excellent bass extension.
But lack bass power and punch. But again, for their size, this is acceptable.

I use a Rel Strata 5 and found this helped the DB1i's to great effect, but the speakers lack the ability/power at certain bass frequencies. This is most noticable when playing Daft Punk, where certain bass frequencies heard through bigger speakers simply dont come accross properly, even with a sub.

I upgraded to ATC scm19's, and the difference in performance is staggering.
I know the ATC's are more expensive, but i believe the scm11 provides much of the 19's performance for the price of the DB1i.

 

[Anonymous]

I auditioned a few more speakers in a different store, so not exactly comparable to the TB2i vs ProAc 110 vs Linn 109 above. Bel Canto integrated amp (e.One s300iU, I believe) this time. But the same music (classical, chamber and symphonic), and the same ears.

This time it was Monitor Audio GS10 (£900) vs Monitor Audio PL100 (£2500) vs Roksan K2 TR-5 (£900) vs Spendor A5 (£1500). All are standmount except for the A5, which is a small floorstanding model.

The PL100's were the best of the bunch. They had great imaging and detail (very engaging performance), but were too aggressive for my taste (stressing the treble end, somewhat fatiguing). Nonetheless, they maintained realistic texture in, for example, the violins at a range of volumes, which the others had problems with. The double basses were present and fairly clear, but could have come forward more. So the main downside is the price.

The GS10's treble end was unrealistic at at high volumes. I found that violins and trumpets started to pop out too much, sounding a bit glassy (i.e. oversimplified, non-textured) and piercing simultaneously. But the imaging and detail was excellent at lower volumes. A pretty decent performance for the price.

The TR-5's, on the contrary, were well behaved at high volumes, but I found that they became grainy (jangly, even) at low volumes resulting in a loss of detail. The bass also had trouble escaping that "in a box" sound.

The Spendor A5's were a disappointment--A pleasant, laid-back sound, but not much detail coming through. Rather muddy. They did offer more bass than the standmounts, but perhaps that was a bad thing in that listening room. Or maybe the amp wasn't up to the job.

In the end I went with the PMC TB2i's that I mentioned in a previous post. They were the most neutral of the 7 pairs of speakers I auditioned--none of the unrealistic behaviour of the others. Both Monitor Audio models (Gold and Platinum) had comparable if not better stereo imaging, but I think I can get that out of the TB2i's by fiddling with the listening room and placement, which I didn't have much control over in the stores. In particular, moving my listening position away from the wall behind me seemed to help.

 

[plastic penguin]

antimony:

I auditioned a few more speakers in a different store, so not exactly comparable to the TB2i vs ProAc 110 vs Linn 109 above. Bel Canto integrated amp (e.One s300iU, I believe) this time. But the same music (classical, chamber and symphonic), and the same ears.

This time it was Monitor Audio GS10 (£900) vs Monitor Audio PL100 (£2500) vs Roksan K2 TR-5 (£900) vs Spendor A5 (£1500). All are standmount except for the A5, which is a small floorstanding model.

The PL100's were the best of the bunch. They had great imaging and detail (very engaging performance), but were too aggressive for my taste (stressing the treble end, somewhat fatiguing). Nonetheless, they maintained realistic texture in, for example, the violins at a range of volumes, which the others had problems with. The double basses were present and fairly clear, but could have come forward more. So the main downside is the price.

The GS10's treble end was unrealistic at at high volumes. I found that violins and trumpets started to pop out too much, sounding a bit glassy (i.e. oversimplified, non-textured) and piercing simultaneously. But the imaging and detail was excellent at lower volumes. A pretty decent performance for the price.

The TR-5's, on the contrary, were well behaved at high volumes, but I found that they became grainy (jangly, even) at low volumes resulting in a loss of detail. The bass also had trouble escaping that "in a box" sound.

The Spendor A5's were a disappointment--A pleasant, laid-back sound, but not much detail coming through. Rather muddy. They did offer more bass than the standmounts, but perhaps that was a bad thing in that listening room. Or maybe the amp wasn't up to the job.

In the end I went with the PMC TB2i's that I mentioned in a previous post. They were the most neutral of the 7 pairs of speakers I auditioned--none of the unrealistic behaviour of the others. Both Monitor Audio models (Gold and Platinum) had comparable if not better stereo imaging, but I think I can get that out of the TB2i's by fiddling with the listening room and placement, which I didn't have much control over in the stores. In particular, moving my listening position away from the wall behind me seemed to help.

I take it you've a good rapport with the dealer?

The price differences between the monitors you've tested are not conducive to a fair or balanced "square-up". I was immensely impresed with the DB1S when I rigged them to my Arc system, but, so it seems, the TB2S have appeared to be overlooked by the mag, and hardly anyone actually owns a pair....

TBH i'm going through one of my "apathy" periods when it comes to upgrading, although I doubt it'll last.

Thanks for reporting back and enjoy the TB2s.

 

[Anonymous]

(Forgot to mention) I did one more comparison that addresses your original question: PMC DB1i (£915) vs TB2i (£1125)

I returned to the first store/setup (Rotel RA-04 amp) to do this one. (Don't know why he didn't offer to show me the DB1 the first day.) As you know, I went with the TB2, but admittedly I was already biased. Once you develop a crush on one you don't have ears for others.

First, I noticed I had to crank up the volume knob more with the DB1. But after that, I saw the similarity between the two PMCs--detailed, no oddities on the treble end. I felt that the TB2 was filling in more of the lower midrange to bass--cellos, double basses--for better overall balance. (Neither was bringing double basses out as much as I wanted, though.)

So if I already owned DB1's, I would be apathetic about upgrading too. 🙂