PMC TB2i in a 12ft × 11ft room.

[Alberich]

Has anybody got experience with PMC TB2i or similar in a small/ medium room?

Thinking of getting a pair of these to be used in a room roughly
11ft ( 3.4m ) × 12ft ( 3.6m )

Main concerns would be bass related issues. Could the room possibly be too small for these?

Will be using exclusively for classical / orchestral / opera
so bloating bass frequencies may not be a major issue compared with other genres of music.

I've considered the smaller DB1i or Twenty 21 but would much prefer the larger 6.5 inch driver of the TB2i, particularly for full orchestra.

Will be driving them with a Cyrus 8vs2.

Thanks for any input.

 

[luckylion100]

had PMC floorstanders previously, the Twenty 23's in similar size room, no bass bloat. See the top customer comment on their offical page to answer your question. Although understand your reservations with the Advanced Transmission Line port being located at the rear. I suppose it really depends how much breathing space they have...

http://pmc-speakers.com/products/archive/archive/tb2i-signature

 

[plastic penguin]

Has anybody got experience with PMC TB2i or similar in a small/ medium room?

Thinking of getting a pair of these to be used in a room roughly 11ft ( 3.4m ) × 12ft ( 3.6m )

Main concerns would be bass related issues. Could the room possibly be too small for these?

Will be using exclusively for classical / orchestral / opera so bloating bass frequencies may not be a major issue compared with other genres of music.

I've considered the smaller DB1i or Twenty 21 but would much prefer the larger 6.5 inch driver of the TB2i, particularly for full orchestra.

Will be driving them with a Cyrus 8vs2.

Thanks for any input.

Depends... my room is 12' something x 17, and I have my TB2s firing across the 12. However, as they are rear vented they need absolute minimum 18" from the back wall. Mine are closer to two feet. It's doable and marginal.

 

[Alberich]

Thanks for the input fella's,

I've read a few accounts of the TB2i's having a slightly more prominent bass
compared to the equivalent in Twenty range, which raises a doubt in my mind whether they will work in my room.
Maybe something from the Twenty range would suit the room better but the TB2i 6.5 inch driver is the main appeal for me.

The maximum distance I can manage for the speakers would be 15cm from the back wall and 13cm from the side.
I'm not convinced that's going to be enough.

Plastic penguin, it seems my back wall loses 6ft in relation to yours as the speakers will be firing across 11ft.

I'm starting to have real doubts now. I'm in a pickle.

 

[Alberich]

This chap had a horrendous time with the Bass performance in a small room.

Although it's the '+' version I'd imagine there's no great difference.

http://www.audioreview.com/reviews/pmc-tb2-bookshelf-speaker-user-review

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

The twenty 21's will be fine 15 cm's from the wall,although the driver is small..they do an excellent job for there size....my room is around 5mx3.5m with the twenty's firing across the short side of the room.They do actually need the extra bass support from the wall as they can sound very lean in free space,in fact it's night and day to how different they sound . I'm not sure how they'd sound with the cyrus amp though,

 

[plastic penguin]

Thanks for the input fella's,

I've read a few accounts of the TB2i's having a slightly more prominent bass compared to the equivalent in Twenty range, which raises a doubt in my mind whether they will work in my room. Maybe something from the Twenty range would suit the room better but the TB2i 6.5 inch driver is the main appeal for me.

The maximum distance I can manage for the speakers would be 15cm from the back wall and 13cm from the side. I'm not convinced that's going to be enough.

Plastic penguin, it seems my back wall loses 6ft in relation to yours as the speakers will be firing across 11ft.

I'm starting to have real doubts now. I'm in a pickle.

I would guess with your 8VS, which is similar to the Leema (lean, taut bass), should be fine with the TB2s. If you had a valve amp, which naturally has big bass, I would deffo suggest to look elsewhere.

 

[Alberich]

Question for you Mark, the forum isn't letting me quote your post,
How do you find full orchestral music on the 21's?
Assuming you listen to that music.
Is there enough fullness and weight overall to the sound?
I'm starting to think the 21's may be more suited to my room.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_1653360097]

Since i moved i have had a teribble time trying to position my MA Gold GX100's, and every time i think i have found that sweet spot, there is always that one tune that messes my head up, its got to the point that depending on the track, i sometimes have to use the bungs, so i could be up and down all day, i have found that changing to a power amp has helped, but i would say that any speaker of a certain size will have more likley issues in a smaller room, and i have often found that overall smaller speakers can sound better overall, i would suggest a home demo of the two sizes as there is no trully knowing untill you have them in that room, i am about to go through that very process myself and try smaller once i find a bargain pair.

 

[Alberich]

Thanks for the input fella's,

I've read a few accounts of the TB2i's having a slightly more prominent bass compared to the equivalent in Twenty range, which raises a doubt in my mind whether they will work in my room. Maybe something from the Twenty range would suit the room better but the TB2i 6.5 inch driver is the main appeal for me.

The maximum distance I can manage for the speakers would be 15cm from the back wall and 13cm from the side. I'm not convinced that's going to be enough.

Plastic penguin, it seems my back wall loses 6ft in relation to yours as the speakers will be firing across 11ft.

I'm starting to have real doubts now. I'm in a pickle.

I would guess with your 8VS, which is similar to the Leema (lean, taut bass), should be fine with the TB2s. If you had a valve amp, which naturally has big bass, I would deffo suggest to look elsewhere.

Im rationalising the fact that the only bass I'll be listening to will be acoustic bass, no prominent kick drum either, so I'm hoping that could play in my favour.
Does that sound logical or self delusional?

 

[Alberich]

Since i moved i have had a teribble time trying to position my MA Gold GX100's, and every time i think i have found that sweet spot, there is always that one tune that messes my head up, its got to the point that depending on the track, i sometimes have to use the bungs, so i could be up and down all day, i have found that changing to a power amp has helped, but i would say that any speaker of a certain size will have more likley issues in a smaller room, and i have often found that overall smaller speakers can sound better overall, i would suggest a home demo of the two sizes as there is no trully knowing untill you have them in that room, i am about to go through that very process myself and try smaller once i find a bargain pair.

I can't get a home demo unfortunately, the TB2i's are no longer stocked by dealers so I'm looking at second hand.
I know all too well the torment you're going through mate, I tried, in vain, to make Magnepans work in the same room I'm on about now.
Learnt a hard lesson. I suspect that experience is what has me earring on the side of caution with the TB2i's.

 

[DocG]

If space is so tight, wouldn't you consider on-wall speakers, like the PMC Wafers? The Waf 1-1 is the equivalent of the Twenty:21, but it's optimised for on-wall use. Not that much more expensive than the 21s...

 

[Alberich]

I'm not sure I could be that adventurous the Wafs would be a little too left field I think.
I can accommodate a moderate size standmounter.
I'm sure the 21's would suit my room without too much trouble, it's really the TB2i's that are borderline.
I had a pair of ATC scm11's in the same room a while back without any bass issues. In fact the bass performance was perfect for the size of room. Considering the 11s are port-less might make it an unfair comparison but they're a very similar size to the TB2is.
I may just have to take a gamble on the TB2is but that's never a good strategy with speakers.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Question for you Mark, the forum isn't letting me quote your post, How do you find full orchestral music on the 21's? Assuming you listen to that music. Is there enough fullness and weight overall to the sound? I'm starting to think the 21's may be more suited to my room.

Hi Alberich. The 21's cope very well with all kinds of music and can go pretty loud and keep a grasp of large dynamic shifts . I'm no classical music expert but dabble on occasion and am not disappointed with them for that genre or any genre actually.After going through a good few sets of standmounts over the last twenty years...these are the ones that have worked best in my room/s and the best sounding I've owned to date.I love em . Although that wasn't the case when I first got them set up and running.....they were sited in front of a window/cill where my previous b&w cm5's were (basically akin to being in free space)the little 21's had all the bass sucked right out them and I almost returned to the shop them but I persevered and swapped my room around and sited the speakers with the wall behind them....night and day difference....sounded like I just got a new set of speakers end of story.lol.

 

[Electro]

I think any of the PMC's you mention will work well in a room of your size with your amp .

PMC transmission line ports are very different to normal ported speakers in that only the very lowest bass frequencies eminate from the transmission line exit ( port ) , all the upper bass and higher frequencies are filtered out by the transmission line.

This means that they react far less to room boundaries in a similar way to a sealed non ported speaker, so placement near a wall is far less of an issue.

The TB2's allow for deeper bass with the larger driver and they are more efficient and easier to drive and the music should have more scale and like all PMC speakers they don't have that exaggerated upper bass hump that many conventional speakers do.

On first hearing they can sound a little dry compared with normal ported speakers but when there is real deep bass you will hear it and the imaging is superb without being muddied by exaggerated upper bass.

The DB1's work well either on wall with the dedicated brackets or very close to the wall and are superb speakers that will fill you room easily as will the 21's , but my choice for classical music would be the TB2i .

The wafers as previously suggested are also a good option.

In my old house I used a pair of OB1 floorstanders in a 12' x 14' room and the sound was superb with no bass problems at all.

 

[plastic penguin]

Thanks for the input fella's,

I've read a few accounts of the TB2i's having a slightly more prominent bass compared to the equivalent in Twenty range, which raises a doubt in my mind whether they will work in my room. Maybe something from the Twenty range would suit the room better but the TB2i 6.5 inch driver is the main appeal for me.

The maximum distance I can manage for the speakers would be 15cm from the back wall and 13cm from the side. I'm not convinced that's going to be enough.

Plastic penguin, it seems my back wall loses 6ft in relation to yours as the speakers will be firing across 11ft.

I'm starting to have real doubts now. I'm in a pickle.

I would guess with your 8VS, which is similar to the Leema (lean, taut bass), should be fine with the TB2s. If you had a valve amp, which naturally has big bass, I would deffo suggest to look elsewhere.

Im rationalising the fact that the only bass I'll be listening to will be acoustic bass, no prominent kick drum either, so I'm hoping that could play in my favour. Does that sound logical or self delusional?

As I mentioned in the previous post, I can't see or imagine an issues with your amp. FWIW, I had, a few years ago, the 8VS2 on home dem with my old RS6s. No bass issues with them.

 

[luckylion100]

but it's your money.

If need be surely you wouldn't lose much if you had to sell them on again.

As with regards to the review you read concerning positioning and bass bloat, there are just as many, perhaps more reviews that state no such issue. There's only one way to know and that's by trying them out in your room with your ears.

 

[Alberich]

Thanks for the input everyone, greatly appreciated.

It's going be a close call between the 21's and TB2i's.
Whichever one i end up choosing, I will of course report the results.

 

[Alberich]

Question for you Mark, the forum isn't letting me quote your post, How do you find full orchestral music on the 21's? Assuming you listen to that music. Is there enough fullness and weight overall to the sound? I'm starting to think the 21's may be more suited to my room.

Hi Alberich. The 21's cope very well with all kinds of music and can go pretty loud and keep a grasp of large dynamic shifts . I'm no classical music expert but dabble on occasion and am not disappointed with them for that genre or any genre actually.After going through a good few sets of standmounts over the last twenty years...these are the ones that have worked best in my room/s and the best sounding I've owned to date.I love em . Although that wasn't the case when I first got them set up and running.....they were sited in front of a window/cill where my previous b&w cm5's were (basically akin to being in free space)the little 21's had all the bass sucked right out them and I almost returned to the shop them but I persevered and swapped my room around and sited the speakers with the wall behind them....night and day difference....sounded like I just got a new set of speakers end of story.lol.

Thanks for the info Mark.

Reading your description of your room and looking at your YouTube videos I can see the length of front to back wall in your room is almost identical to my own. Bring in the side walls a bit, particularly from the left and that would be very similar to my space.
I have to say it looks like the 21's could be the ideal size for my room particularly with the back wall reinforcement being beneficial and not a hindrance to the bass on the 21's.
My only concern would be there's a large widow on the left side of my room which would cover about a third of the wall behind the speakers. That could possibly hinder the optimal performance of the 21's.
Saying that, some acoustic treatment in front of the glass is not an impossibility.

Something to consider anyways.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Glad to have been some help.oh and I know the sq on the YouTube videos is rubbish but it gives folks some kind of idea what they can or can't expect from the tiny monitors.