PMC TB2+ to B&W 683S2,a backwards step?

[max337]

Currently running the PMCs via a Cyrus 6XP.

Having got used to it now, my thoughts on a lack of body or weight still persist. I can't fault either component as I think they are superb but just not sitting right with me.

I always intended to upgrade the amp as it's my understanding that more power = better grip and control of the speakers and intend to look at maybe a K2, Arcam A19 but I fancy the Cyrus 8 DAC.

Could somebody advise whether with one of these new amps (or any other recommendation) would the B&Ws be a step back from the small PMCs, considering my comments about lack of weight? It could be either or both components but I need to start somewhere.

I have been offered some new PMCTb2i at a reasonable price. If these could retain the marvellous uppers and mid I have now been spoiled with whilst adding a bit of weight that would be ideal.

I am concerned that the B&Ws may not have this trait that the PMCs seem to all have.

I will demo as much as possible but circumstances dictate this is a difficulty at the moment. I have no qualms about 'buying blind' as it can be fun and I like seeing what can be done by experminting.

 

[jjbomber]

It's only a backwards step if you think it sounds worse. If you think it sounds better, then it's an upgrade.

 

[max337]

Very true. I'm essentially trying to glean whether I will miss out on any of the detail I have now been introduced to via the PMCs in my music, with the B&Ws.

As I said, auditioning will be quite difficult for me at the moment. If I will miss such detail then I will avoid and look elsewhere for an answer. The B&Ws do certainly seem more than capable of giving me the body and weight I appear to be missing.

 

[plastic penguin]

Hi Max

This is a tricky one. I have the TB2i powered by the Leema, and they sound terrific. Previously had the RS6s and the loss of bass is minimal. However, I haven't heard the '+' version to compare, but have read the difference between '+' and 'i' is the latter has a more refined top end. The problem is I've not heard the 683s, apart from a very brief shop dem, so I'm assuming, like the RS6s, it'll be quantity over quality.

Given your Cyrus 6 XP is only 40 watts, I'd be looking at a gutsier amp, like the 8XP (I heard the 8XP with MA RX6 and GX100 side-by-side and it sounded really good).

The 683s will give you a little more body but quality may (probably) be lacking.

EDIT - before splashing the cash, try repositioning the speakers and check the cables are phased in correctly. I know that sound anal but double check.

 

[max337]

Hi PP and thanks. Sort of what I was thinking about the step to 683S2. I have read lots and it does seem to be the case that speakers, and maybe moreso with PMC, receiving more power will translate into more body/weight/bass.

I too had RS6 prior to the Tb2+ and you saying the difference in bass is minimal kind of surprises me but then again, amp, room etc come into play. This does kind of back up the theory floating around my head, as you had yours powered by the Leema whereas mine the 6xp. While it is a very good amp indeed, the 40w does in my limited experience, seem to be hemming in what are apparently excellent speakers with much more potential.

I spoke to a guy at PMC who advised Roksan Kandy K2, Caspian, Arcam A19 and Cyrus for these speakers. Would you happen to know of another that may lend a little body that I could try? He did say that Cyrus would be bright and at the other and Arcam would be warmer.

Maybe I am confusing the terms body/weight and warmth?

 

[rainsoothe]

EDIT - before splashing the cash, try repositioning the speakers and check the cables are phased in correctly. I know that sound anal but double check.

yup, do this. Otherwise, you might wanna check Arcam A19, Roksan K3, Rega Elicit R/Elex R, Naim Supernait or Supernait 2.

 

[max337]

Thanks guys. I've done this repostitioning and checking until my head and back hurt. I think I have actually got the bass there, depends on the cd but with the sound in general sounding thin. Maybe as I say my terms are off and am not conveying what I mean correctly.

I think it could be as simple as a new, more powerful amp. It is something I want anyway as 40w is the minimum and I dread the idea of underpowering these speakers and causing any damage. Better too much unsused than not enough!

Hmm, I shall definitely add Naim and Rega to the must listen to category, when able. Cheers.

 

[CnoEvil]

Hmm, I shall definitely add Naim and Rega to the must listen to category, when able. Cheers.

It's also worth bearing in mind that Arcam and Electrcompaniet are known matches with PMC.

IME. A better amp is like having a speaker upgrade.

 

[plastic penguin]

If looking at other amps and like the shoe box size, look at Leema Elements. I've not heard them personally but if they're anything like the Pulse it should be a cracker.

 

[plastic penguin]

Hmm, I shall definitely add Naim and Rega to the must listen to category, when able. Cheers.

It's also worth bearing in mind that Arcam and Electrcompaniet are known matches with PMC.

IME. A better amp is like having a speaker upgrade.

Yup, that old chestnut: All about balance and synergy.

 

[drummerman]

I agree with a previous comment on that it is only a downgrade if the B&W sounds inferior to you. Not all speakers work in all rooms.

However, I think you should certainly try your PMC's with some other amplifiers first. As a cyrus user I am obviously a little biased but I have always found the 8 series to give a larger increase in SQ to the 6 than the price difference suggests. That plus the option of using a PSX-R in the future.

For a really big step up (in power if not necesseraly quality though you may find that too) look at amplifiers which have three, four (or more) times the power of your 6.

 

[max337]

If looking at other amps and like the shoe box size, look at Leema Elements. I've not heard them personally but if they're anything like the Pulse it should be a cracker.

Not so concerned about the size. I do happen to be looking at one of those, 56w > 8Ohms, this is where I become confused, so power is not the be all and end all? I had a thread all typed out re this but it became very cumbersome, so I lay down

 

[max337]

Hmm, I shall definitely add Naim and Rega to the must listen to category, when able. Cheers.

It's also worth bearing in mind that Arcam and Electrcompaniet are known matches with PMC.

IME. A better amp is like having a speaker upgrade.

This is what I have gleaned, been told and am now accepting. Looks like the best solution all round. Thanks.

 

[max337]

I agree with a previous comment on that it is only a downgrade if the B&W sounds inferior to you. Not all speakers work in all rooms.

However, I think you should certainly try your PMC's with some other amplifiers first. As a cyrus user I am obviously a little biased but I have always found the 8 series to give a larger increase in SQ to the 6 than the price difference suggests. That plus the option of using a PSX-R in the future.

For a really big step up (in power if not necesseraly quality though you may find that too) look at amplifiers which have three, four (or more) times the power of your 6.

Ye Gads! Such as? I was kind of hoping that a 70w DAC 8 or similar would suffice. Although I know more power can't hurt. If I then added an X Power to that DAC 8, for example, am I then using 140w of power as both have 70w? Or does that depend upon how I configured them together?

 

[drummerman]

I have never run my own cyrus systems other than an 8series integrated plus a PSX-R (or without).

I found that adding cyrus power amplifiers not only make a huge increase in price, bringing other brands/options into play but also, to me at least, didn't bring an increase in musicality and enjoyment.

Having said that, I have not heard the 200 and 300 series power amplifiers.

If I had a huge listening room with demanding speakers the above may be more feasable.

Try an 8 and see how you get on would be my suggestion. Enough stockists around.

 

[max337]

I think I just might thanks.

Out of interest and as I don't really know as I can find little on it, how do the DACs that are fitted into the 8 DAC compare with the current favourites?

I can't imagine a Cyrus DAC card not being good, I'm just thinking while in the process, whether to go for 8a and sepeate DAC or 8 DAC. I'm thinking Cyrus all the way perrsonally.

 

[max337]

Ooh, 8 QX DAC! Some nice prices about seeing as the v2 is available.