PMC... are they that good?

[ellisdj]

Sorry quest there is nothing wrong with knowing the frequency response of a speaker.

In fact if you dont know what your frequency response is at your listening position how can you even be sure what your listening to is High Fidelity in the first place? Regardless of what boxes you own its extremely important.

because the consideration isn't hi fidelity but bloody good fidelity. I don't need to know that from a graph.

You do though because its only bloody good fidelity until you hear better then its relegated to average - or you see that its not and then you realise its only really average

If you measure your MLP freq response you will be shocked to your core just how bad what your listening to actually is. Ask Insider or Gazzip I bet they couldnt believe it first time they looked it.

But thats a major factor how you work out how to hear it better, so its very important.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

Sorry quest there is nothing wrong with knowing the frequency response of a speaker.

In fact if you dont know what your frequency response is at your listening position how can you even be sure what your listening to is High Fidelity in the first place? Regardless of what boxes you own its extremely important.

because the consideration isn't hi fidelity but bloody good fidelity. I don't need to know that from a graph.

You do though because its only bloody good fidelity until you hear better then its relegated to average - or you see that its not and then you realise its only really average

If you measure your MLP freq response you will be shocked to your core just how bad what your listening to actually is. Ask Insider or Gazzip I bet they couldnt believe it first time they looked it.

But thats a major factor how you work out how to hear it better, so its very important.

no I don't buy that because it misses one very real consideration in hi fi - law of diminishing returns. The idea something is average, and then good etc, imputes an idea average is maybe let's say for argument sake 50 percent, then good 70 percent etc. But in hi fi terms at a certain point it's not like that. The system at 100k is not ten times better than a 10 k system. Good is not 20 percent better than average. All that should matter is it's good to you, and if so and you've reached a platueau that's satisfying, with this law of dim returns considered, that's all that matters.

Im sure I could be shocked if we set the standards of the '100k', but I never do. Not least we listen to make judgements as Lindsayt says. Also I just set the standards with what they are happy with as I say. As do most I think. The only factor to hear it better, and mainly, is your ears, as to make judgements from measurements on what our ears can tell us with the numbers of variables involved in what makes a pleasing speaker and what we want from it, is too complicated to quantify by all measurement. The magazine article would have to run to tens of hundreds of measurements, and then you'd still be none the wiser.

 

[lindsayt]

Yes, I admit bass is one of Jamos strengths. Not only low but clean and tuneful. It's a pair of 8" woofers in an isobaric arrangement. But for best bass they do need a beefy amp. Roksan Kandy KA-1 Mk III did really well controlling them.

If you'd like to visit that would be lovely. It would be great to have feedback from someone more experienced. Should you bring your speakers measurements wouldn't take long either I sent you a PM via Wigwam.

I can't access PM's on wigwam. Can you please PM me via another forum?

 

[insider9]

Yes, I admit bass is one of Jamos strengths. Not only low but clean and tuneful. It's a pair of 8" woofers in an isobaric arrangement. But for best bass they do need a beefy amp. Roksan Kandy KA-1 Mk III did really well controlling them.

If you'd like to visit that would be lovely. It would be great to have feedback from someone more experienced. Should you bring your speakers measurements wouldn't take long either I sent you a PM via Wigwam.

I can't access PM's on wigwam. Can you please PM me via another forum?

Ok, sent via AV forums.

 

[plastic penguin]

Personally don't take any notice of graphs, spec sheets (other than ohms and RMS wattage).

Going back to the OP original question: GB1i and Naim is a superb combo.

IMHO PMC are a better all-rounder than any other speaker in its price bracket. And I've heard PMC 'i' series with a number of different amps: Arcam, Naims of various descriptions, Leema (obviously), Yamahas, Rega....

Due to their transmission line configuration they are easier to place than most other brands, regardless of whether the model is front or rear vented.

Crucially, any speaker/amp performance will be influenced by room size and acoustics. This is where PMC's configuration benefits....

 

[insider9]

Personally don't take any notice of graphs, spec sheets (other than ohms and RMS wattage).

Going back to the OP original question: GB1i and Naim is a superb combo.

IMHO PMC are a better all-rounder than any other speaker in its price bracket. And I've heard PMC 'i' series with a number of different amps: Arcam, Naims of various descriptions, Leema (obviously), Yamahas, Rega....

Due to their transmission line configuration they are easier to place than most other brands, regardless of whether the model is front or rear vented.

Crucially, any speaker/amp performance will be influenced by room size and acoustics. This is where PMC's configuration benefits....

Do I remember it right, did you use to have the GB1?

 

[rainsoothe]

From my experience (twenty 23 and db1i), PMC are very impressive speakers. Of course, it all depends on your tastes and system+room synergy. They are very precise sounding, without being harsh, and transmission line bass is quite interesting. PMC are definitely worth a listen, even if they're not to everyone's tastes, they're pretty special. And I think your amp is enough for them. I also like Spendor (had old S3e) and Focal Aria range with Naim, quite a lot. Lots of people also like Neat, proac (me, not so much) and kudos or Totem (haven't heard these)

 

[Gray]

I've got the twenty21s on sandfilled SE24s (you've got the same stands I believe Insider)

I like them. The first thing I noticed about their sound was their even frequency balance.

PMC are not the only manufacturer that design and test for accurate speech reproduction, but with these it shows. (If they can do speech right, they're off to a good start in my book)

Long before, I had a pair of GB1s on home loan but decided against them - perhaps I just prefer standmounts (I've never owned floorstanders)

We all know that no speaker is perfect and that preferences are very subjective. But I'm curious to know what part of the 21s accurate, detailed sound others might dislike. (I do appreciate that some genuinely prefer their sounds to a bit on the veiled / restrained side of neutral)

 

[plastic penguin]

@insider9

Do I remember it right, did you use to have the GB1?

No. I 've never owned them but have heard them with a number of amps at the dealers. Going back a number of years, I took my old FM tuner in to my local dealer, and when I collected it he had a pair of GB1 (originals) wired to a Arcam A65+, which only has 40 watts per channel. It was a revelation. Never heard my tuner sound so good - that was my first experience of any PMC speaker.

I've home-dem'd the DB1i a couple of times, and for their size blew me away.

Since then I've had the honour of hearing the Twenty 24 with a Yamaha receiver and Rega Elicit-R. Very impressive.

Regards my TB2is - they aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

I'm not saying PMC make the greatest speaker, but in their respective price band they are very hard to beat.

 

[insider9]

Very valuable feedback. I'll see if I can negotiate as in fairness wouldn't mind having a go if the price was right

I've scrapped my second system last year but now having some fun again.

 

[rainsoothe]

@insider9

Do I remember it right, did you use to have the GB1?

No. I 've never owned them but have heard them with a number of amps at the dealers. Going back a number of years, I took my old FM tuner in to my local dealer, and when I collected it he had a pair of GB1 (originals) wired to a Arcam A65+, which only has 40 watts per channel. It was a revelation. Never heard my tuner sound so good - that was my first experience of any PMC speaker.

I've home-dem'd the DB1i a couple of times, and for their size blew me away.

Since then I've had the honour of hearing the Twenty 24 with a Yamaha receiver and Rega Elicit-R. Very impressive.

Regards my TB2is - they aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

I'm not saying PMC make the greatest speaker, but in their respective price band they are very hard to beat.

Db1i blew my mind as well, I couldn't stop smiling, and couldn't believe how such a huge sound could come out of such small boxes. Unfortunately, they were a poor match with my room, but in the showroom they were absolutely amazing.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

My little pmc twenty 21's are the most honest speaker I've ever owned....for there size(Which is an important factor for me)I'm bowled over sometimes at what they can produce...all be it with a decent recording.... and that is the issue....we can all go on and on about speakers this...amps that etc etc...but if the music production is rubbish then all your measurements matter not a jot.....I'd rather hear a great recording on a poorly measured system than a rubbish recording on the finest measured system ever......it's all about the source guy's.You just can't see the wood for the trees.lol.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

I went from MA RX2 (8" bass driver) to PMC DB1's. I conducted a comparison which actually became a blind test as I forgot which terminals each speaker pair was connected to *biggrin* I thought that the RX2's had won the day until I went to switch over to the other speakers on the amp and found that it was actually the DB1's playing... I was astounded by their presence, considering their diminutive size, and they still astound me to this day. Aesthetically they might not be up there with the best, but everything else about these speakers is fantastic, including bass and low level listening.

Not interested in graphs, these baby's fit my room perfectly and I have absolutely no intention of ever letting them go... mark me happy. My personal thoughts, yours may differ.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

My little pmc twenty 21's are the most honest speaker I've ever owned....for there size(Which is an important factor for me)I'm bowled over sometimes at what they can produce...all be it with a decent recording.... and that is the issue....we can all go on and on about speakers this...amps that etc etc...but if the music production is rubbish then all your measurements matter not a jot.....I'd rather hear a great recording on a poorly measured system than a rubbish recording on the finest measured system ever......it's all about the source guy's.You just can't see the wood for the trees.lol.

the thing too is there doesn't seem to be an end to how much you can squeeze out of the pmc's as you upgrade amps. I've always noticed this as I've changed amps.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Well I definitely got an improvement going from the nait xs to the superuniti...in fact I'm hooked on it's sound and can't wait to get home for my next hit.lol.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

Get the twenty5 21s if you can as they are a class above and keep all the original qualities of the 20-21s. I couldn't not upgrade after I borrowed at home a set of 25-23s, comparing against my old 20-23s

 

[insider9]

 

PMC... are they that good?

 

No they are much better that !    *biggrin*

Hahaha!

You too, hey? I've not realised how many PMC owners we had over here. I've wanted a pair of PMCs with their famous transmission line for a while.

Looking at those measurements put doubts in my head.

 

[nopiano]

My little pmc twenty 21's are the most honest speaker I've ever owned....for there size(Which is an important factor for me)I'm bowled over sometimes at what they can produce...all be it with a decent recording.... and that is the issue....we can all go on and on about speakers this...amps that etc etc...but if the music production is rubbish then all your measurements matter not a jot.....I'd rather hear a great recording on a poorly measured system than a rubbish recording on the finest measured system ever......it's all about the source guy's.You just can't see the wood for the trees.lol.

Their smallest models have always been my favourites actually. The brain can easily fill in the missing octave or so, as it can with many small speakers, and for a grand you get the same tweeter as in models costing four or five times as much. I'm afraid I think they are overpriced now, but they have good marketing, get widely reviewed, are stocked in many dealers, and seem to work well in domestic situations.

I do like measurements too, but it took years for me to understand them reasonably well, and grasp how they might translate to a real system setting. Given the time and cost involved I can see why most mags don't bother.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

Go on Insider9, you know you want too. Spend a bit more and you could get a lovely pair like these.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322698569273

i reckon you could get them down to £700 depending on their age, which never gets mentioned on eBay (doesn't that do your head in) . The cabinets look immaculate.

i believe the 20 year warranty may be transferable, but you could always keep the buyers details and warranty card if something does go wrong, if they are happy with that.

 

[nopiano]

PMC... are they that good?

No they are much better that ! *biggrin*

Hahaha!

You too, hey? I've not realised how many PMC owners we had over here. I've wanted a pair of PMCs with their famous transmission line for a while.

Looking at those measurements put doubts in my head.

I was tempted by transmission lines ever since IMF used them widely, many years ago. I was even more tempted by electrostatic speakers, hence my bitter disappointment at the Martin Logan's I tried to enjoy earlier this year. Happy that infinite baffle designs are more my cup of tea!

 

[nopiano]

Go on Insider9, you know you want too. Spend a bit more and you could get a lovely pair like these.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322698569273

i reckon you could get them down to £700 depending on their age, which never gets mentioned on eBay (doesn't that do your head in) . The cabinets look immaculate.

i believe the 20 year warranty may be transferable, but you could always keep the buyers details and warranty card if something does go wrong, if they are happy with that.

The warranty isn't transferable. The conditions expressly state that. Disappointing though.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

Yes but nothing to stop you keeping in touch with the original buyer such that if and when it needs to go back to pmc, it comes back from them. Obviously if the original buyer are happy with that arrangement. Tricky though.

 

[insider9]

Go on Insider9, you know you want too. Spend a bit more and you could get a lovely pair like these. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322698569273 

i reckon you could get them down to £700 depending on their age, which never gets mentioned on eBay (doesn't that do your head in) . The cabinets look immaculate. 

i believe the 20 year warranty may be transferable, but you could always keep the buyers details and warranty card if something does go wrong, if they are happy with that. 

 

Would be very optimistic to think they'd go this low. I'd be tempted at £700. I usually buy at a price that if and when I eventually sell the loss is minimal. That's why I predominantly buy second hand. Depreciation on new gear is just too big.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

The auction starting price is 1k which means the seller is looking for a good deal more...I'd say £1500....these were over 2k new.....I wouldn't even part with my 21's for 700quid.lol.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

The serial number is 1185 and my serial numbers on my previous twenty 23s were 2603 (sept 2013 bought), so since the speakers came out in 2011 I think from memory I'm guessing these are early production run ones. So I'd say £700 is very fair used, not least since fanthorpes were selling ones new at £1600 very recently in wood finishes. I'd have a guess that pmc are not shifting the graphite ones at the list price of £2170 so are making limited run wood versions to sell to shops, so they can sell them still as a cheaper pmc is no doubt appealing. Another shop was doing the same thing - lintone audio, and were selling wood finish 23s for £1500 last year. You should tell the seller this and see if the seller would let go for £700. I'm nearby if you want me to check them out and pay my fuel to get there. Hope this info helps. Cheers Simon