Panning / motion on the Philips 9664.

[Anonymous]

gel:
Also what happened to giving everyone jab for swine flu? i never got one did anyone else get one?

Thanks

.. i think you have gone slightly of topic el gelimoto

 

[Deleted member 2457]

maxflinn:gel:

Also what happened to giving everyone jab for swine flu? i never got one did anyone else get one?

Thanks

.. i think you have gone slightly of topic el gelimoto

okay

 

[TKratz]

maxflinn:gel:

Also what happened to giving everyone jab for swine flu? i never got one did anyone else get one?

Thanks

.. i think you have gone slightly of topic el gelimoto

Of topic yes, an unsubstantiated I believe. At least WHO declared recently that the pandemic is over (if it was ever there? Another thing to discuss somewhere else...)

 

[Anonymous]

This cold is really a bit of a pig, but it is not swine flu (these threads do take on a life of their own don't they?). My other half has returned to work and is getting lots better, so I think it is just a 'normal' bug. Feel very grim this morning though.

Thanks 6th.replicant. It was good of you to take the time to be so specific. I will be talking to Philips, Richer Sounds and everyone else next week. I had become apathetic and resigned to it all (got lots of other things going on this year) and I did not want to have the grief really. This week something galavanised me to return to WHF and post this thread.

To you other helpful contributors, I have played with the settings a lot (we have had this TV quite some time now). Over the weekend I actually thought I was getting somewhere, but the BR we watched on Saturday (as mentioned) eroded that feeling. Some TV does not seem to provoke the shimmering and chattering as much as others, but I cannot come up with anything more technical to describe or explain it. I did study electronic engineering, but I am at a loss to explain further. It does seem wrong. Can't believe we are just sensitive to something we can't put a name to.

As I've said, I cannot live with the artificial nature of the motion processing (and we both feel the same - it was actually my partner who wanted it switched off originally and she first pointed out the 'speeded up' nature while she was watching Friends and she was correct, like every few frames it goes turbo for a fraction of a second). It does make the picture on a BR stunning, but crazy.

We recently watched the Star Trek DVD, but with Natural Motion off, the fast moving and busy scenes were never really in focus and you did not have much insight into them. It would have been in focus with NM on, but we cannot endure it. I presume greymack, that you have NM on? Do you not find it strange (and see ghostings and other artifacts)? I wonder if you left the NM on peddie44?

I talked on another thread about the lack of 'proper' on/off butons NSYGrinner. Why these sets lack one is beyond me (I would have thought there would be some regulation to make them a requirement). Our TV switched itself on several times in the night. Philips said this was down to conntected equipement (and I have heard of pretty much every make of flat TV doing this). I decide to put the TV (and other connected bits that do not need to be left on standby) on a switched spur, so I now have one wall switch that isolates the whole lot from the elctricity supply. No unplugging then.

I am very encouraged by the desire to help - shown by you all though. Thanks again.

 

[Anonymous]

I will keep checking this thread - despite my spinning head and next week I will tell you all how I get on. OK, back to my Lemsip.....

 

[Anonymous]

Ignore the lemsip and take your cold like a man....it'll go quicker

Back to the tv, star trek did have NM on as we have it set on for everything i think and IMO it's the best movie i have seen for showing of what blu ray and a good tv can do. There was no smearing, banding, anything it just looked perfect and as i said before i can be a bit fussy so i would notice.

A couple of things you said made me think, the speeding up in certain shows you mention while i don't get this in 99% of what i watch if ever they show a replay of a goal on say football focus the ball looks and acts a bit funny, i presume this is the tv's technology trying to fill in the gaps to make it seem smoother but it does look odd abd it may be slightly what u describe. But i have to say i only really notice that with footballs on football focus, live footie is fine...........odd i know

The other thing you said was not having a proper off button, from this i presume u mean not a physical button?

I know when i got my samsung 19" i was amazed it went into standby when u switched it off but apparantly the power usage is so small u would never notice. Anyway the philips 9664 does have an on/off button which seems to completly switch the tv off, it is definetly not in standby as there is no red light on and i can honestly say it has never come on by itself and we have it permanently switched into a strip plug.

Hope it works out for you.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks greymack - make me feel pathetic why don't you? I need my medicine. My head hurts too much (and I get migraines). I can put up with every other symptom like a proper bloke should, but my headaches make me chuck, so I have to indulge.

The Star Trek BR. The fact you can watch a film with NM on means 1 of 2 things. Either ours is faulty or both of us here can see things you don't seem to be aware of becuase it was full of ghosting, speeded up movement and other artifacts when I tried it on. It just looks completely bizarre to us. We have to turn it off, but you loose focus and get 'shimmer/chatter'. I do hope it is faulty, otherwise we are stuck with sensitive eyes and no compromise. I agree though (when I forget these aspects of NM we cannot tolerate) that the clarity is fantastic and is the reason we went for this TV. The insight and depth of detail is stunning. It goes when I turn the NM off though (in pans and fast motion). I also think the description of this set as being a soft upscaler are not really accurate. I just think it shows a soft picture for what it is. Good normal def looks fantastic (apart from my motion issues), but soft normal def looks soft. Games on the Wii (which are only 480p) look terrific. Clearly normal def, but crisp and clear. Occasionally they show a film on BBC1 in normal def with a fantastic picture and these look brilliant (though often transmissions are soft and noisy).

I know exactly what you mean about slo-mo replays though. They have a different kind of 'added frame' look. It is definately something to do with the speed of playback. I've seem it in F1 replays too, but never in live footage.

The thing about the off button is that it is not off. I know it is not in standby (no red light) , but the button is still live as it is an electronic on/off. Our tv has switched itself on in the night several times (both from standby and 'off''). A physical/mechanical switch would stop this, but I suppose you should disconnect the mains anyway. That is one of the reasons I ran a switched spur (the TV is on the wall and the components are in the adjacent corner on a stand. There is no visible wiring or sockets now as the space behind the wall is a utility space where I ran all the wiring).

Maybe we just have a bad set. Philips blamed the switching on, on connected equipment (bit of a cop out), but I have read other makes can do this too. It also once made a louder noise (I don't mean a bang - the sound just went louder) and switched off. The blinking light on the front kept showing a specific pattern (I thought it might be like a PC motherboard error code. I contacted Philips via email (as I had regarding the coming on in the night), but I got no reply - only a 'how did we do survey' some time later. I bloody told them!).

Thanks for your specific information though (and sharing your experiences). This thread has certainly helped my state of mind over our pricey telly and the fact I was burying my head in the sand.

 

[Anonymous]

I had backlight bleed on my 9664. Spent a while trying to live with it but in the end I rang Philips, the engineer came round and immediately said they'd replace the panel. I'm now sitting here with a new panel with no faults. Moral of the story: don't put up with something u are not happy with, not because you are just being picky but because there seems to be something faulty with the set (as seems to be the case with yours). You'll kick yourself if you don't do something about it.

Specifically regarding what you say about the issue with PNM. I hear where yoo're coming from as I recognise the trade off between the clarity having PNM on brings and the slightly 'false' look that comes with it. For me the former outweighs the latter and in no way does the latter manifest itself in a way that is problematic. Just call it a minor niggle in what is otherwise a fantastic set - great sound, looks and picture. The way you describe the issues with your set says to me there is a definite fault.

Do call Philips - they were very accommodating with me.

Good luck.

 

[rblock]

I have just purchased a 40"9704 which is fantastic for colour, contrast etc. I do understand the concerns about motion with the Philips sets with PNM switched on though, it can only be described as vision after a few (alot) alcohol beveridges walking around from one place to another! When it is turned off motion clarity is worse than my first sony 40" 50hz screen. Incidently when the PNM is on I get shimmering around people when they move,not all the time,only at certain speeds. I got the Philips to replace a Sony 40w5500 which had backlight bleeding & although now when scences are black the screen is black & panning shots are better, general motion is not as nice to watch compared to the 100hz Sony. I also wandered if there was a fault with my set & also thought maybe this is just how they are. After reading others concerns I may be inclined to think a fault may be possible.

 

[Anonymous]

The best thing I can really (now) say is that I will be doing something as my TV as it is, is either faulty or does not do what it is supposed to do and I would suggest to do as I say and not as I do - i.e. make sum fuss and get any concerns you have addressed.

As far as the shimering with PNM on, I see it - as you say rblock, when the movement is at certain speeds, but I still feel that whenever it IS on the whole experience is bizarre and I have to leave it off. Only when the camera is static - say on a quiz show, do I not notice anything with it on. It has to stay off for us, but all the clarity in movment is absent. It is this lack of compromise I have finally seen the need to adress.

All over the box it boasts about this 'natural' motion. There is nothing natural about our tv with it on, and nothing approaching a decent picture (during motion) with it off. I was starting to think that my TV (as it is) is faulty, but I am now thinking (since others like youself are seeing so many artifacts of the processing) that it is not fit for purpose, or there are many that are 'strange' out there. It would seem an odd fault though, the processing sort of working, but being too hard to watch??? I know in the original WHF review it did say there was occasional odd ghosting, but that hardly describes what we are experiencing and is just unacceptable on a TV that was originally priced at £1499.99!

If neither myself or my better half can put up with PNM on, then it cannot be just us (if there is no fault). I will be contacting Philips and Richer Sounds (who have always given me splendid service) after the Bank Holiday.

 

[Anonymous]

Good Luck Badamz when you contact Philips/RS I hope it goes well.

I was thinking your tv must have faults so please don't give up on the philips, i mean a healthy tv doesn't come on in the middle of the night plus display the faults u describe.

I was also going to say why don't you take a copy of star trek BR into richer sounds and see how it looks on their sets (providing they still have one on display)

I remember when i got my 2nd 9664 i said to the wife right this time I'll just put up with it, but it ate away at me and 2 months later i returned it got another from the home cinema centre and it was miles better. At the time i read somewhere that there were 2 different type of panels used in the 9664 and that one was far superior, the 3rd set i got was definitely that.

Aren't these forums an interesting place, a lot of us come on here to shout about our tv problems and if you read all the threads (and i did before when i was browsing for a new tv) you would think that every tv is flawed in a major way, at some point you sort of have to just get on with things but as the previous poster said never accept it if you believe it's faulty.

One last point, you talk about how you can see things and your wondering if it's just you, well when i had the issues with 9664 of the dirty lens look my wife couldn't see it at all, i had to do slow mo's on sky for her to go oh yeah I see it a bit Last week I went to see a friends new samsung, nice looking set but when he put it on i noticed ghosting but i never said anything and later her turned to me and said great picture isn't it....i just nodded

Good Luck

 

[Anonymous]

Cheers. The different panel issue was not something I was aware of before I read your latest reply greymack, but I've just read a few disturbing things on the web.

I was just in Sainsburys this morning and I picked up the latest WHF. I only generally buy it if I am in the market for new gear as I have a history of buying too many mags (and I get in trouble - I am down to 1 a month now (EDGE)). I noticed they had a TV supertest on 40 or 42in I think. I looked if there was a Philips - and there was. In the review it described it as having flawed motion. I cannot remember the exact phrases used, but it definately said with processing on it was unnatural and with it off it was jerky and jumpy. Sounds just like our 9664 to me, so I am really not sure if it is faulty or just bad - to our eyes.

I don't actually have the ST BR as we had it from Lovefilm, but I will make a compilation disk of stuff I think shows the flaws in our set.

I certainly agree that most TVs if not all seem to have flaws that some owners cannot tolerate. Instead of trying to come up with the next big thing, whether that is 8million hertz refresh rate or 4D or whatever (OK I am descending into sarcasm), they should get flat HD TV 'basic' technology nailed down, because as far as I am concerned (having just read a load of WHF reviews on this very site) it is just not there yet and the average consumer has no idea. I did research a plenty, but it never ocurred to me I would end up in this situation as somehow I never saw a single issues with motion on any of the TVs I considered buying last year and only saw jerky panning on 50Hz sets, but somehow this jerkyness was less intrusive than the chatter I get PNM off.

Thanks for the encouragement though. I will keep you posted.

 

[Anonymous]

I briefly say that review in the new mag (read it in the shop), I'm not sure but wasn't it on the lesser speced 7 series model?

What you have to ask yourself though is what your seeingtotally unwatchable, what you desribe does sound unwatchable and would What HiFi not have mentioned this in their review of the 9664?

Rememeber as i said before the majority of people on forums (IMO) are there to complain, highlight issues or seek advice for problems so there may not be many 9664 owners who are reading about your troubles and can advise you that they don't have these issues....Except myself of course but i read anything to do with the 9664 because i had a different problem.

One last thing just to give you an idea how every tv is different even if built to the same spec.....the on/off button on the 9664, my first tv took 2 hits to make it turn off (i thought this was the norm), my 2nd set took 3 and now my 3rd takes just the one......i believe as it should be

 

[Anonymous]

I take on board the fact the latest review is of a much lower model, but it does seem to describe our TV's motion so well. It is the first thing I have read which actually describes the motion with processing on and off, which certainly increases a review's value and of course relates so well to my experiences.

We both DO regard the effect of PNM on as unwatchable. It sometimes makes you feel ill, it is (to our eyes) so odd. I would also have thought this would be mentioned in the review, but perception seems so variable and it seems only very recently that WHF reviews are really accurately describing motion issues, but I AM clinging to the hope we have a bad or faulty set. I really am. Whith PNM off it is easier to watch, but hardly lives up to the premium we paid for a quality TV. I know it is available for less now, but we did cough up £1449.99 including a 5 year warranty. I am happy to admit that within the context of my worries.

I have had other very helpful 9664 owners contribute to my older threads. I did dwell on this motion chatter a good while back in a thread and I was lead to believe it was the rubbish SCART signal from my SKY ND and DVD, but when I started watching BRs it was still there despite HDMI and I'm afraid the optimism brought about by my thread was shattered. It is good to get some info' from a fellow 9664 owner though and I am glad you have taken the time to keep me thinking.

The on/off button is a strange tale. Our TV always switched off with one push, until I ran a network cable to it in June and connected it to the net for the first time. It of course wanted to do an update. Since then it always takes 2 presses to go off. What is that about?

I sincely hope our tv is faulty because we really do not want these issues that you correctly point out, others are not complaining about. I do not want it to be the case that it is just that our eyes are sensitive to the PNM.

If it is the fact that it is not faulty and we cannot tolerate the PNM, even if I was able to replace it with another make of TV, I would miss the Ambilight so much. It is something I imagined was a bit of garnish, but I love it. I have it on every evening, for games, TV and discs. I think it is a wonderful feature and I really want to enjoy nice motion with Ambilight.

 

[Anonymous]

I have just remembered something else. Since the update it did in June, it will not remember my Autoformat settings for watching 4:3 stuff.

There are 2 settings for 4:3 viewing in Autoformat. One is Autozoom and the other Autofill I think. I cannot put up with the wide-head stretched look of one and much prefer the other option where it leaves black borders and just fills the top and bottom if there are bars. This preserves correct proportions. Everytime the set is put in standby or switched off, it returns to the 'wrong' one that fills the screen with a stretched picture, much to my annoyance. It always stayed on my chosen setting before the update. I had never used the stretched setting. This is available in the format options anyway, so if I don't go into settings every day, I really have 3 options, though 4 are listed.

I still cannot fathom why there is no 4:3 mode in format though? I was watching the Star Trek The Motion Picture DVD extras disc the other day and the pictures was constantly dancing between formats with every change in shot. Can't we just have a 4:3 setting - please?..........

 

[Anonymous]

Badamz:As I've said, I cannot live with the artificial nature of the motion processing (and we both feel the same - it was actually my partner who wanted it switched off originally and she first pointed out the 'speeded up' nature while she was watching Friends and she was correct, like every few frames it goes turbo for a fraction of a second). It does make the picture on a BR stunning, but crazy.

I only just noticed this effect over the weekend whilst watching King of Queens on Comedy Central HD. However, switching to SD on the same programme solved it...

ANOTHER 9664 problem to add to my list.

I have had the 9664 for nine months and in all honesty, I would ditch it in a heartbeat. I've had four of these in that time period and even my latest one annoys me with it's issues. However, the missus loves it and getting rid of it whilst she's out is NOT an option...