Pana V20. Decided to go for it...

[Deleted member 2457]

and also the black was just too black

:~

I know on Pioneer tvs and most others it looks great but on this set it looked horrible. I can remember watching Transformers blu ray, which on most tvs looks brilliant on this set it looked dull, that is the best way i can describe it.

 

[strapped for cash]

and also the black was just too black

:~

I think what's meant by this is that, in order to achieve a very deep shade of black, luminance is compromised, meaning the picture consistently looks too dark.

Having spent 30 hours with the set, I genuinely understand this criticism. I suspect the filter used on the V20 is the cause of the problem, though it's possibly not the only factor at play.

That said, setting gamma to 2.0 (which I know isn't ideal) does help a little. You might want to try this, Al, using the Cinema preset. Colours may be less accurate, but the picture looks more stable, especially with standard def material.

Is it just me, or was 2010 a disappointing year for televisions...

 

[Deleted member 2457]

and also the black was just too black

:~

I think what's meant by this is that, in order to achieve a very deep shade of black, luminance is compromised, meaning the picture consistently looks too dark.

Having spent 30 hours with the set, I genuinely understand this criticism. I suspect the filter used on the V20 is the cause of the problem, though it's possibly not the only factor at play.

That said, setting gamma to 2.0 (which I know isn't ideal) does help a little. You might want to try this, Al, using the Cinema preset. Colours may be less accurate, but the picture looks more stable, especially with standard def material.

Is it just me, or was 2010 a disappointing year for televisions...

Yep that is it and with this tv that was very apparent and to be honest like i said above it looked horrible. Yep there was certainly some disappointing tvs, Sony did well, Samsung at a cost and LG were good too.

 

[micks_address]

hi strapped, found after a lot of playing around that using the THX preset gives you the best settings for use if you havent gone down the road of professional calibration..

have you decided to return the set at this stage?

and also the black was just too black

:~

I think what's meant by this is that, in order to achieve a very deep shade of black, luminance is compromised, meaning the picture consistently looks too dark.

Having spent 30 hours with the set, I genuinely understand this criticism. I suspect the filter used on the V20 is the cause of the problem, though it's possibly not the only factor at play.

That said, setting gamma to 2.0 (which I know isn't ideal) does help a little. You might want to try this, Al, using the Cinema preset. Colours may be less accurate, but the picture looks more stable, especially with standard def material.

Is it just me, or was 2010 a disappointing year for televisions...

 

[strapped for cash]

Hi micks_address.

I think I'm going to return it, though I've a few more days to decide.

I can't cope with floating blacks and the strange motion effects. Watching the rugby over the weekend, I noticed subtle shifts in contrast throughout, which became distracting. Furthermore, there's nothing you can do about the motion issue that helps: engaging IFC makes eveything look ridiculous and is far less subtle than IFC on the G10.

I don't know if either of these issues gets easier to live with once the set beds in? As someone that's owned the TV for a while, perhaps you can advise me here? Keeping it for any longer seems a dangerous experiment, as this would mean waiving my right to return.

All pretty frustrating, really, as I didn't buy the TV with the objective of returning it; and I hoped the reported issues would prove easier to live with. Ah well, you live and learn. I'll certainly never buy an expensive product blind again, even if it seems too great a bargain to pass up.

 

[bay24]

hi strapped, found after a lot of playing around that using the THX preset gives you the best settings for use if you havent gone down the road of professional calibration.. have you decided to return the set at this stage?

I was just going to ask/comment about the same thing. I have a v10 and for me all of the screen presets apart from the THX preset has the odd fast forward motion you describe which just looks odd and makes me feel a bit sick. The THX mode gets rid of this and I think it looks amazing. I didn't know if the v20 had the THX mode but seems it does so if you havent I would try it! One thing I will say about that pre set is that it is darker than the others but to me that looks more natural (like my old CRT not the day glow LCD/LEDs I see in the shops alot). Just an idea.

 

[Anonymous]

Stapped for cash. I have also just purchased this TV so have been watching this thread carefully so thought I would sign up and share my experiences. I've had my eye on this set since its launch, but had been put off with all the reports of floating blacks & motion issues, however after seeing it locally for £749 with a 5 year warranty and a no quibble return it was worth a shot.

I've had the set now for three days and so far (touch wood) have experienced none of the issues others have reported. Im using the THX settings so all processing options are off and motion, while not perfect, far exceeds the LCD set it replaced. Match of the day showed only very minor issues and looking at some of the shopping channels today (the horizontal scrolling bars are a good test) again only showed very minor flaws which was improved by turning on the ifc. On blue ray the picture quality is outstanding and have yet to notice any floating blacks or shift in contrast. Ive watched Avatar, Dark Night & Matrix and so far so good. Even running the test pattens on AVS HD revealed no problems.

The transformer does hum, but I can only hear it within half a meter of the set and then only if the sound is on low so I can live with this. The sound however is very poor and a 5.1 set up is not an option. The screen is also very reflective even though its in a shady room.

An interesting point a few people have made is that these issues seem to surface after the firmware update. In the manual it says a message will appear on one of the BBC channels if new software is available. My set is only connected to a virgin hd box set to 1080i and to a blue ray player so still has the factory software (version 2009-10300). I've not yet connected the wireless dongle or the aerial lead as its too short. Could it be that the update is responsible for the issues or have I just been lucky and bagged a good set? If it is a software problem it would explain what hi-fi's and the other online reviews? The manual also says that automatic updates are only done at night when the set is in standby mode when turned off by the remote control and may change TV functions. Just to be sure I've disabled the automatic update option and will see how things go over the next week and report back with any changes.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Stapped for cash. I have also just purchased this TV so have been watching this thread carefully so thought I would sign up and share my experiences. I've had my eye on this set since its launch, but had been put off with all the reports of floating blacks & motion issues, however after seeing it locally for £749 with a 5 year warranty and a no quibble return it was worth a shot.

I've had the set now for three days and so far (touch wood) have experienced none of the issues others have reported. Im using the THX settings so all processing options are off and motion, while not perfect, far exceeds the LCD set it replaced. Match of the day showed only very minor issues and looking at some of the shopping channels today (the horizontal scrolling bars are a good test) again only showed very minor flaws which was improved by turning on the ifc. On blue ray the picture quality is outstanding and have yet to notice any floating blacks or shift in contrast. Ive watched Avatar, Dark Night & Matrix and so far so good. Even running the test pattens on AVS HD revealed no problems.

The transformer does hum, but I can only hear it within half a meter of the set and then only if the sound is on low so I can live with this. The sound however is very poor and a 5.1 set up is not an option. The screen is also very reflective even though its in a shady room.

An interesting point a few people have made is that these issues seem to surface after the firmware update. In the manual it says a message will appear on one of the BBC channels if new software is available. My set is only connected to a virgin hd box set to 1080i and to a blue ray player so still has the factory software (version 2009-10300). I've not yet connected the wireless dongle or the aerial lead as its too short. Could it be that the update is responsible for the issues or have I just been lucky and bagged a good set? If it is a software problem it would explain what hi-fi's and the other online reviews? The manual also says that automatic updates are only done at night when the set is in standby mode when turned off by the remote control and may change TV functions. Just to be sure I've disabled the automatic update option and will see how things go over the next week and report back with any changes.

Hi

I would definitely stick clear off any updates, it is the only thing i could narrow down the problems too and after all we never used to have these stupid firmware updates on tvs in the past and most of them worked fine.

 

[strapped for cash]

My set is only connected to a virgin hd box set to 1080i and to a blue ray player so still has the factory software (version 2009-10300). I've not yet connected the wireless dongle or the aerial lead as its too short. Could it be that the update is responsible for the issues or have I just been lucky and bagged a good set? If it is a software problem it would explain what hi-fi's and the other online reviews? The manual also says that automatic updates are only done at night when the set is in standby mode when turned off by the remote control and may change TV functions. Just to be sure I've disabled the automatic update option and will see how things go over the next week and report back with any changes.

Hi Ian-BK.

Thanks for reporting your experiences with the V20; and welcome to the forum!

I pretty sure, after reading a lot about this TV on other forums, that problems with floating blacks and motion were reported from the off, before any firmware updates were available.

Strangely, my V20 is running firmware version 2008-10300 -- presumably an older version than installed on your TV. Yet when I try to update I'm told I have the latest software version. Not sure what all that means, but thought it worth mentioning...

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks, Ive been hanging around these parts for a while now so its about time I signed up! Strange you have a different software version to mine? Looked on Panasonics web site and the latest version is 2702 released 15th Nov 2010. Not sure if I can put a link up but here goes http://panasonic.jp/support/global/cs/tv/download/2010/index.html (sorry mods if ive broken any rules) If you've already decided to return you're set it might be worth downloading to an sd card and installing direct. Just hope it doesn't make things worse! Neadless to say its not going anywhere near my set! Ive still got another 10 days before my return option expires so ill continue to keep a close eye on things

 

[strapped for cash]

Thanks Ian.

As far as I can tell, the update is for iPlayer compatibility on Freesat. Then again, there may be more to it than that.

We shouldn't really be in a position where we're anxious about downloading the latest firmware, in case things worsen...

 

[Anonymous]

sorry to hear you're not happy with the set strapped, you seem to have been unlucky as i found no floating blacks on mine, it's such a shame this tv is blighted by these issues as imo the hd picture quality is up there with the kuro..

 

[strapped for cash]

I dunno, Max. Maybe the G30 will match the quality of the V20, with the bugs fixed. The so called "short throw" phosphors may minimise other gripes with plasma tech as well.

Thing is, I can't help but think that if I dive in and buy a G30, I'll become a guinea pig for whatever delights Panasonic have on offer this year: 2009, MLL; 2010, floating blacks and 50 Hz problems; 2011, well, who knows...

Reviews don't always steer us in the right direction. Most would have you believe the V20 was a near flawless television; and despite the logic of auditioning sets, there's only so much value in it, in my opinion. To begin with, we're viewing sets in shop conditions, using shop settings. And many problems only really become apparent once users have lived with the TV for a while.

On the other hand, the G30 might be streets ahead of last years models, though I'd need to buy a Freesat tuner as well.

Overall, the V20's a frustrating television. It can paint beautiful pictures, but it spoils them... a bit like someone let a graffiti artist loose on the Mona Lisa.

 

[Anonymous]

yea the g30 looks good on paper, i agree it would be risky buying one so soon though. to be honest i think lg's new plasmas may be worth checking out, they've come on leaps and bounds of late, the only problem (in your case) is that their premium plasmas are 50in minimum.

i think you might be better off taking the £35 loss and holding fire, once you've spotted issues you'll keep spotting them and probably end up frustrated with the tv, a g30 review can't be far away now, hopefully the reviewers will scrutinise more closely this year.

 

[strapped for cash]

Yep, that's the main reason I've not looked at LG: no 1080p on 42" sets.

Agreed, assuming I return the V20, I'll hang fire for a few months and see how others get on with the G30. It should come down a bit in price by then, too.

Not a huge drama, considering all that's happening in the world. Just a little disappointing.

 

[Alec]

I'm notcing loads of that strange colour effect I mentione don a couple of programmes. I still haven't found out if it happens with SD more than HD.

Wonder if it's just the lighting in certain programmes.

 

[strapped for cash]

The G10 does that a little with fast panning shots, notably around faces. Hopefully it will diminish as you clock up more viewing hours and the TV beds in.

That's part of the dilemma I have with the V20: I don't know how it will perform a few months down the line. The image properties of plasma displays often change most throughout the first few months of use, as I'm sure you know.

 

[Alec]

Its more discolouration of faces, which is what leads me to believe it may be light based. I'm watching something on BBC2 now and it hasnt happenned AFAIK, not much at least.

EDIT - it was particularly notceable on Eastenders in SD earlier, now I'm watching it in HD to see if its the same.

EDIT - Actually, motion does show it up more, but it is also very obvious on close-ups of faces. I think its as bad in SD and HD so far.

EDIT - Could it be anything to do with reconnecting things wrongly afte rthe whole Freesat experiment?

 

[strapped for cash]

I'm sure it's not a connection issue. As with all digital sources, broadcast or otherwise, if the data is received by your TV then it shouldn't introduce radically different picture anomolies or artifacts.

There'll be subtle differences between the image produced by the TV's integrated tuner and your Sky box, but neither should be responsible for the colouration effect you describe. It's more likely to be inherent to the panel. What picture settings are you using?

Also, out of interest, when you're watching BBC HD, if you press the "i" (info) button twice, does the TV display a "1080i 50Hz" graphic in the top left corner? Nothing to do with the colouration effect you describe, I'm just trying to work out what's going on with the refresh rate (seems strange the TV would recognise a 50Hz source, given the problems with 50Hz material reported elsewhere).

 

[Alec]

Damn, I knew it wouldnt be a connection issue but half hoped otherwise.

EDIT - Sorry, yes, 1080i 50Hz is indeed shown when I press "i".

 

[strapped for cash]

Well, I've had enough. Called Peter Tyson this morning and arranged the return. I should add, I've no issue whatsoever with Peter Tyson, who have been perfectly reasonable throughout.

I could have just about coped with the floating blacks and motion issues, but the buzz from the TV has increased in volume since I first turned it on. Now, even with the volume just below half (i.e. loud enough to annoy the neighbours), I still hear a high pitched whine from the TV. The G10 made a bit of noise, but buzzing from the V20, in my opinion, is far worse and seems to have increased in the short space of time I've owned it.

Not sure what my next move should be. Maybe a call to Richer Sounds about rising blacks on my G10 is in order. Since the G10 was purchased with a five year warranty, perhaps they'll be sympathetic. However, as Panasonic refuse to acknowledge this is a problem and have a class action law suit pending regarding MLL, I'm not sure how I'll get on.

I'm now looking forward to reconnecting the G10. Sure, the picture will look washed out, particularly during dark scenes, but at least I'll have no flicker or shifts in contrast, and that 100Hz motion will be a dream to watch compared with the V20.

I think I've had my fill of Panasonic televisions. In fact, all considered, I may buy a Humax Freesat PVR and defect to a local dimming LED TV...

 

[Anonymous]

nothing ventured nothing gained strapped, at least now you know. sounds like peter tyson has been very accomodating.

looks like you'll be spending some time gauging user feedback of the upcoming models, i'm looking forward to reading a few reviews myself as they appear, though i've no plans to change tvs. good luck with the hunt.

 

[strapped for cash]

Yep. At worst this was only ever going to cost me £35, so it was worth a punt. Whether Peter Tyson will want to deal with me again is an entirely different issue...

I'll stop droning on now and bring my tedious story to an end (sighs of relief all round)!

 

[Dave_]

looks like you'll be spending some time gauging user feedback of the upcoming models,

Yep.

Can't help feeling, you'd have been better off not paying quite so much attention to user feedback before ordering, because from reading your numerous posts you had this set written off before it was even delivered (or at least thats the impression i got)

 

[strapped for cash]

I understand what you're saying, but I really did want to like this television; and in many respects it's fantastic.

The buzzing has been the killer for me, which I would have found impossible to ignore, even if I'd not read about it beforehand.

The other issues I could have lived with, since they're more than compensated for by the V20's excellent colour reproduction; but there's only so long you can watch a TV and admire the colour balance when there's a high pitched ringing in your ears. This certainly became more audible with use, and would perhaps have diminished over time. Nonetheless, it seemed too big a risk to hang on to the TV and waive the right to return.

Honestly, if someone could turn off (or at least lessen by a fair degree) the high pitched ringing sound, I'd call Peter Tyson and tell them I'm keeping it.