Outgrowing my RP1 with Ortofon Red and White Belt

[bemaniac]

I personally feel I'm not going to get more out of the RP1 and now have over 100 great LPs and a crate of 12" singles too. My system is the KEF Q500s running off a Yamaha 1073RX and an SVS PB2000 Sub. My phono stages are the one on the Yamaha and my Rega Fono Mini which I currently use.

I'm aware this is a £2500 hifi running off a £229 turntable and £85 MM stage which is a bit of a mismatch. The new amp is a lot more controlled and actually does seem to have quite a good MM stage compared to my older amp which was a Cambridge 651/640p combo but I'm not sure it beats the Fono Mini.

I think it's time for a whole new turntable the reason being I'm sick of the high noise floor on the RP1 even when I've washed and brushed records to perfection with my Knosti and Nagaoka Velvet Brush I get quite a bit of hiss between tracks and in quiet sections with some occasonal clicks. I have quite a lot of used records but buy a lot new from discogs too. I spend at least £100/month on new and used records and have an amazing record shop on my road so I know vinyl is the future for me. I've set up the cartridge perfect and have all the available measurement tools available for tracking and levelling the turntable so really I'm after a recommendation with no specific budget in mind - just sensible match to get 100% out my other components and most of all looking for a warm deep sound with the lowest possible noise level and lowest possible chance of clicks and pops without too much analytical detail in the treble.

Music tastes in vinyl include mid 90s dance like Fatboy Slim, The Grid, Chemical Brothers, The Shamen. More traditional music in my collection comes from Fleetwood Mac, David Bowie, Eels, Queen, Spin Doctors, The Beatles, ZZ Top - Basically 70s-00s Rock mostly.

So........what do you think? Those Gyrodecs look nice don't they? I did promise Audio T a large credit purchase this year 🙂

 

[Al ears]

Agree gyrodecs do look (and sound) nice.

Not too convinced about adding a quality deck like that to a Yamaha receiver though, and certainly not through a Rega Phono Mini.

Suggest your RP1 could be much improved by getting rid of the Ortofon Red and aforementioned Rega Phono - a cheaper upgrade path here perhaps?

 

[stevebrock]

I gather you have the AV amp for a reason?

Probably not what you want to hear but the best way to get a massive step up in your vinyl playback is a Rega Brio R, RP3 with Nagaoka MP110 cart - which will come in at a grand.

I have tried to do what your doing ie best possible 2 channel playback through an AV amp - it doesnt work at this end of the market!

My AV amp is used, but my Front Channel is directed to my Hifi amp

 

[bemaniac]

Funny you should mention that I have a Brio R in the bedroom which I moved out of the main room as I felt the Yamaha sounded weightier.......I think I like a bit of heft and they say these new ones are musical though the preamp could sure do with an upgrade. All my audio sources are digital apart from the turntable and there is about 6 HDMIs needed for all my gaming gear hence the Yamaha.

I've been looking at the clearaudio concept MM package for £995 with a preamp upgrade too. How does that sound? It looks very much plug and play.

Do you folks think I should be trying a thicker mat with a Nagaoka MP110 first?

 

[nima]

I think it's time for a whole new turntable the reason being I'm sick of the high noise floor on the RP1 even when I've washed and brushed records to perfection with my Knosti and Nagaoka Velvet Brush I get quite a bit of hiss between tracks and in quiet sections with some occasonal clicks. I have quite a lot of used records but buy a lot new from discogs too. I spend at least £100/month on new and used records and have an amazing record shop on my road so I know vinyl is the future for me.

Perhaps you should really invest in vacuum cleaning machine. With Knosti you might be only displacing the dirt and not really removing it.

Have a few records cleaned in a shop where they have proper RCM. If you're happy with the results, you should be looking at Okki Nokki first and not a new TT.

Cart with finer stylus might also help with old records.

 

[bemaniac]

Ok so far the MP110 has arrived so I'll try that later today. I've spent £35 on on one of those SRM/TECH double thickness mats on auction and a michell record clamp too and because the rega has a wobbly platter a new £45 SRM/TECH platter too. I've put the turntable on a double folded towel for now which is said to give better control and less vibration.

For record cleaning I'm not sure if my brand new knosti is that great but it does work. I'm not spending £450 on a cleaner and would try the moth mkII at my dealer before investing in one.

 

[bemaniac]

I've fitted the Nag MP110 and it's really a lovely thing compared to the Ortofon Red.

There is a tiny bit less noise on brand new records but it does confirm that a few second hand records I've bought are scratched beyond repair which is a shame.

This cart does not skip on records where the Ortofon red did so I would say due to the greater distance between needle and cart bottom and maybe a better suspension system the MP110 tracks the grooves much better.

If a record is a little bit clicky with the Ortofon red though it does enhance those clicks into snaps so I'll try to stick to new releases as much as possible and mint copies of older stuff which I'll take down the road to the Keith Monks machine.

Today my 'Michell' gyrodec record weight has arrived so we shall see if this helps with stability and noise further.

Tomorrow my new mat and platter should arrive so I'll get to see how that goes. I've switched from the fono mini to my receivers built in phono stage as it is not as noisy and is equally powerful and detailed likely due to having a much better power supply. I'm going to borrow a better phono amp soon and compare as there is a shop opposite my flat that has about 10 different phono stages to take home and play with, might try a NAD as they have all 3 of those and I think they have project etc. I have a Brio like I said and didn't really think it did anything my Yamaha doesn't do better, also a pm6005 and a CA651A both of which didn't beat out the Yamaha.

I've looked way more into Moth and Okki cleaners and apparently Okki Nokki are doing a brand new cleaner soon so I would definitely wait and buy but only if the much better cleaning machine local to me produces good results.

Could it just be that the tonearm on the RP1 is not as good at resolving and lowering the noise floor as the arm on the rp6? Could it be that the 24v motor or a better plinth would improve things or at that point am I simply looking at getting an RP6 anyway seeing as they are pretty cheap anyway.

 

[stevebrock]

Congrats on the Nag MP110

I really wouldnt take the RP1 any further - the limiting factor being the arm, the RP3 & RP6 share the same excellent RB303 arm.

Save your money and put towards an RP3 - its a massive step up over the RP1 - then you can add a TT PSU for another upgrade.

If you can afford an RP6 then get that - nicer glossy plinth with no on/off switch, TT PSU as well.

 

[bemaniac]

I thought so 🙂 It's going to be fun playing with the new bits as they arrive but yes I'll stop here and look up the Rega range as I do like the sound. I'm going to want my MP110 and platter and mat and weight for the RP6 anyway so I could probably buy a used one without cart an without even a platter or mat if it saves money. I'll be surfing ebay and maybe by 2015 I might get one.

 

[stevebrock]

I thought so 🙂 It's going to be fun playing with the new bits as they arrive but yes I'll stop here and look up the Rega range as I do like the sound. I'm going to want my MP110 and platter and mat and weight for the RP6 anyway so I could probably buy a used one without cart an without even a platter or mat if it saves money. I'll be surfing ebay and maybe by 2015 I might get one.

The platter will not fit onto the RP6 - the RP6 platter is a 2 piece affair that requires a metal interface to be used with the sub platter.

The upgraded platter - you will need to move it on, but your should get back what you paid for it!

 

[bemaniac]

Do different better arms slot into place on the RP1? If so then there doesn't really seem any harm in doing everything aftermarket gradually then change the arm instead of the turntable. Used RB250/300s go quite cheap sometimes.

 

[stevebrock]

Do different better arms slot into place on the RP1? If so then there doesn't really seem any harm in doing everything aftermarket gradually then change the arm instead of the turntable. Used RB250/300s go quite cheap sometimes.

Yes they will fit!

But you have to change the motor if you want to use the TT PSU - it will be easier & cheaper in the long run to buy an RP3 - also the plinth on the RP1 isnt as dense as the RP3/6

 

[bemaniac]

I fully intend to change to motor next month to the 24v one just really so I can have speed change at the touch of a button. The improvements from the new platter weight and mat are actually quite big even compared to the new cartridge. It actually spins level and keeps warped records flatter.

 

[bemaniac]

I can now after many LPs say that the Rega Fono Mini is a piece of junk! The extra hiss it provides and distortion on bass notes is abyssmal and why anyone with any budget of record player would have this item is beyond me. I'm annoyed with it as it is truly truly awful compared to the interal phono stage on the Yamaha which is silent and controlled in comparison. I am going to sell it on auction as it is not upto scratch at all. My wife is non hifi minded and I told her to listen to 2 plays of the beatles abbey road remastered and she pronounced the Rega Fono Mini replay as terrible but the Yamaha onboard reply as clean and powerful confirming my more experienced ears were right.

So if you have an RP1 do NOT purchase a Rega Fono Mini it is not worth £85! I'm going to look for a really good phono stage

 

[nima]

Perhaps you should visit your dealer and try another unit first.

 

[DIB]

I'd be interested in reading your description of your Rega Mini Fono when it goes up for auction (Ebay presumably?)

.

 

[audylubis]

I'm actually in the same situation with you as well. I just upgraded my Rega Carbon (default cartridge from RP1) to Nagoka MP-110 and the improvement is good. I have upgraded the belt from the black one to the white belt. So far the best improvement came from changing the cartridge, which makes perfect sense. Changing the belt only improves the accuracy of the RPM rather than the sound quality IMO.

I'm using Musical Fidelity V-LPS II phono preamp which is connected to my integrated amplifier Krell S-300i. Is there a sound quality change you heard when upgrading the platter mat and the plastic platter?

 

[fatman]

There's a few Rega RP40's still for sale.... Essentially an RP3 with RP6 specs including TT-PSU. Worth a look?

 

[nopiano]

Just on the Rega fono mini, my dealer said he felt it could only be improved by spending over £300, and I've been v happy with mine. It does benefit from careful siting, but no complaints on the sound. Maybe yours is substandard for some reason?

 

[bemaniac]

I'm actually in the same situation with you as well. I just upgraded my Rega Carbon (default cartridge from RP1) to Nagoka MP-110 and the improvement is good. I have upgraded the belt from the black one to the white belt. So far the best improvement came from changing the cartridge, which makes perfect sense. Changing the belt only improves the accuracy of the RPM rather than the sound quality IMO.

I'm using Musical Fidelity V-LPS II phono preamp which is connected to my integrated amplifier Krell S-300i. Is there a sound quality change you heard when upgrading the platter mat and the plastic platter?

Yes that particular platter and the matching double thickness mat has made a world of difference. I am totally using that place for any other little tweaks I fancy trying too. I didn't realise how resonant and noisy the original acryllic and wool setup was.....the new mat is kinda sticky on one side when you wash it and scrub too which they say is awesome for holding the record in place and they do a spray treatment that sucks the static off the record, and it works because after you put a record down on it then turn it over the back of your hand doesnt fuzz up anymore.

Also yeah my ebay listing of the Rega Fono Mini will be honest. Someone always buys the item though even if you say it wasn't for me. It'll be like £40 anyway.