Ortofon 2M Blue setup help needed

[craigj67]

I wonder if anyone can help with a problem I have. I recently bought a used Rega P3 complete with RB300 tonearm and Linn K9 cartridge.

I replaced the K9 as I didn't know anything about it's age and replacement stylus are no longer made. I decided on the 2M Blue and after reading many cartridge set-up guides and investing in a mirrored cartridge set-up protractor and tracking force gauge I installed the Ortofon. However, I get horrible distortion in the midrange, even on very quiet sections, especially on strings. For anyone that knows it, Tanita Tikaram's Cathedral Song on Ancient Heart is particularly bad.

I can only remove this distortion if I reduce the the tracking force to around 1.3g but this seems way off the Ortofon's spec (1.6 to 2.0g). Although it now sounds great, I feel something must be wrong somewhere and I'm worried running it this light could damage my records. I did notice that the tonearm wasn't level so raised the counterwieght end by 4mm using spacers but this has not helped.

Any hints or tips would be very much appreciated.

Thanks, Craig.

 

[crusaderlord]

tricky to help what you cannot see but here is a few pointers on how i set up my Rega P3-24 with the Ortofon 2M Blue

- attach the cartridge to the head but not too tight at the moment
- make sure all the pins are firmly attached to the cartridge pins (a poor contact here can cause fuzzy sound issues)
- ensure bias and tracking force is set at zero
- screw on counterweight until the stylus hovers just above the vinyl without touching
- now set the counterweight, bias and tracking force to the cartridges recommended levels
- align the cartridge using a downloaded stevenson diagram for a Rega turntable and tighten screw head to cartridge - the shape of the tonearm head is quite ideal for the Ortofon which makes things a little easier

issues i have found that could hurt your sound are poor connections tonearm pins to cartridge, poor alignment set up or incorrect tracking force

 

[Henley]

It does really sound like incorrect tracking force. How are you measuring the tracking force?

Our customer service dept are here to help if you wish to call them

01235 511166

 

[craigj67]

Henley:It does really sound like incorrect tracking force. How are you measuring the tracking force?

That's exactly what I thought, especially as it sounds so good when I reduce the tracking force.

Initially I was simply using the method described by Rega, just as crusaderlord described above in fact. I assumed the markings on the tonearm weren't very accurate so I bought a Sure SFG-2 tracking force gauge. Unfortunately this just confirmed that the tonearm markings were actually reasonably accurate and that I was indeed tracking very light. Could both the gauge and the arm markings be so far out?

I might give the old Linn a go tonight just to eliminate the rest of the set-up.

Thanks for the customer service no. I'll give them a call tomorrow if I'm still stuck.

Craig.

 

[chebby]

Rega RB300/RB250 arms are notorious for their heavy handed anti-skate mechanism.

You could well be - unknowingly - applying far too much anti-skate/bias by setting it to the 'correct' setting on the little slider.

Try setting your 2M tracking downforce on the counterweight to about 1.8 grams but set the anti-skate to about 1 (instead of 1.8).

If this improves things then try setting the anti-skate/bias slider to 0.5 and see if thats even better.

On my Rega P2 (with Ortofon 2M blue) I found the best setting for the anti-skate was just a hair under 1 even though the downforce was 1.8 grammes.

It also helps if the TT is level (side to side and back/front too). I mean level as checked with a spirit-level on the plinth not just 'looks ok'.

Don't worry too much about 'fancy' protractors (the mirrored one you bought may not even be correct for Regas which use 'Stephenson' geometry rather than the more normal 'Baerwald'.)

Use the card one that Rega provide in the box.

Looks like this....

Note that cartriddge and the headshell both have to be parallel with the lines when the diamond drops onto the cross.

If you get it right with that, then you will not get any of the distortion you mentioned due to alignment errors. It is pretty accurate despite being very simple.

 

[craigj67]

Thanks Chebby. I'll give that a go.

Funnily enough I did double check the level today and although my stand is perfectly level, the turntable is tipped ever so slightly back. I Guess the rear foot has sagged a little. I've adjusted the back of the stand to compensate but will need to look for some replacement feet.

 

[chebby]

craigj67: Funnily enough I did double check the level today and although my stand is perfectly level, the turntable is tipped ever so slightly back. I Guess the rear foot has sagged a little.

You can get self adhesive felt discs (designed to go under furniture legs to protect wood floors)

Or just stick a beermat under the rear foot.

 

[chebby]

If all else fails. Cheat or copy

Set the cartridge in the headshell so it is exactly square. (a line across the screwheads is exactly at a right angle to the slots and the top edge of the front of the cartridge body is parallel with the front of the headshell and set back about 1mm....

Like so...

Or even like this one from a Henley pic (almost flush)....

You will not be far off (no more than about 0.5mm anyway) and maybe better than you have it now.

At the worst, it's a good starting point.

 

[craigj67]

chebby:
If all else fails. Cheat or copy

Only yesterday I was looking at these same two pictures trying to do exactly that. My cartridge is set back about 1mm like the first picture.

I didn't get the protractor with the turntable - the perils of buying used. Not sure if the protractor I bought is a stevenson type, but it claimed to be for a Rega. However I found one on the internet that I printed off and is supposed to be a stevenson type. Just tried that and found I needed to move the cartridge forward about 1 mm to follow the arc. Didn't help with the distortion though.

I wound back the anti-skate to 1g but that doesn't seem to have helped. I will experiment a little more tonight when the house isn't full of teenage kids making a racket!

 

[chebby]

I don't know what to say then.

After a Rega Bias 2, an Ortofon 2M Red (and then Blue) on my last P2, and 27 years (on and off) of Rega Planars - with many cartridges of different brands - I have never known the problem you have experienced, so I suggest you get this cartridge changed.

Even without any running in. the 2M Blue sounded fine from the get-go with no distortion at 1.8 grammes downforce. (And I used the same Shure tracking force gauge to check.)

You could use the macro setting on a compact digital camera to take a photo of the stylus (from the front of the cartridge) and enlarge it on your photo software to check the profile for any obvious damage but I am sure that such damage would be audible at any tracking force.

It is just possible that you have damaged records. Try your test tracks on another deck if one is handy.

Otherwise a duffer is a duffer and you might just have had the bad luck to pick up one.

Fit the K9 back and see if the same thing happens. (Use a record you don't care for much - or is cheap and easy to replace - just in case.)

 

[craigj67]

chebby:It is just possible that you have damaged records. Try your test tracks on another deck if one is handy.

I'm coming round to the idea that my favourite LPs aren't in such good condition as I rememberd them. My least played play very well. It's the ones I've played the most that seem to be the troublesome ones. I guess I wore them out on a succession of poor quality turntables many years ago.

I will get a chance this weekend to try another turntable. In the meantime I've ordered a couple of "mint" copies of the two worst LPs and will see how those play when they arrive - fingers crossed. I've also ordered a couple of brand new LPs to see how they compare to my CD versions.

Your helpful advice has not been completely in vain and having tried a different protractor and anti-skate settings those LPs that do play well have definitely improved since I first set it up. Can't wait to see how it sounds when it's run in.

I've yet to try the old K9 as I'm a bit reluctant to undo my current set-up but no doubt curiosity will get the better of me by the end of the weekend.

Many thanks.

 

[chebby]

craigj67:I've yet to try the old K9 as I'm a bit reluctant to undo my current set-up but no doubt curiosity will get the better of me by the end of the weekend.

K9 swap was only suggested as part of the process of elimination to try and find the source of the distortion. If you are confident now that the reason is not the new cartridge then it is probably not worth doing.

It seems from what you say about some of your most played old records (and the state of your old turntables/styluses) that you have found the source of the trouble.

 

[craigj67]

chebby:It seems from what you say about some of your most played old records (and the state of your old turntables/styluses) that you have found the source of the trouble.

Sadly it seems I was in too much of a hurry to come to that conclusion.On further listening today I realised there was something not right with my "good" LPs. While not immediately obvious, there was an underlying distortion in many tracks. The music seemed gurgle where it should have sounded smooth.

So, I gave the K9 a go. Guess what, it plays everything I throw at it well. Put the 2M back on and distortion galore. This is a repeatable process so it seems unless I'm making exactly the same mistake each time with just the 2M then there is something amiss with the 2M.

I guess then that I have a duff one after all so it'll be going back for a replacement.

 

[craigj67]

Just thought I'd post an update on my distortion problem. The shop sent me a replacement and after fitting it today I am very happy to report I have no more distortion.

I guess I was just unlucky, but on the plus side, while waiting for the new cartridge arrive I occupied my time sourcing some new LPs!

 

[fatboyslimfast]

Good to hear you've resolved the issue, and that the shop was helpful!

At least you have some more vinyl to listen to now!

 

[Henley]

Would you mind telling us which shop. Faults are extreemly rare and I would like to ensure this one is traced on it's arrival and the reason for the fault investigated.

 

[Anonymous]

I've had similar problems with the 2M Blue that I bought last week. I tried everything to get rid of the distortion but without success. In the end I contacted the dealer that I bought it from, who informed me that I was the third person to have recently reported similar problems with the 2M Blue . He's sending me a replacement, which I hope will be problem free.

 

[The_Lhc]

Hmm, no problems with my 2M Red that the Henley chaps provided me with at the Bristol show the other week, must be a manufacturing defect with the Blue's stylus, as that's apparently the only difference between them.

 

[craigj67]

Henley:Would you mind telling us which shop. Faults are extreemly rare and I would like to ensure this one is traced on it's arrival and the reason for the fault investigated.

It came from Acton Gate Audio in Wrexham who I must say were very good about it and immediately sent out a new one.

 

[freefallrob]

Quick heads up on this for the Henley guys on here, I have also just received a faulty 2M BLUE, with a fizzy/fuzzy distortion problem, the vendor has agreed to exchange it.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry to stray from topic but I've a question for Chebby (or anyone else whos used a Red and Blue 2M;

Was there much of a difference in sound? Im using the Red and if the Blue is a improvement then it's something Im intrested in

Thanks

 

[Sabby]

GWindy:Sorry to stray from topic but I've a question for Chebby (or anyone else whos used a Red and Blue 2M;

Was there much of a difference in sound? Im using the Red and if the Blue is a improvement then it's something Im intrested in

Thanks

Same here, dying to know if difference is worth an upgrade.

 

[margetti]

Sabby:
GWindy:Sorry to stray from topic but I've a question for Chebby (or anyone else whos used a Red and Blue 2M;

Was there much of a difference in sound? Im using the Red and if the Blue is a improvement then it's something Im intrested in

Thanks

Same here, dying to know if difference is worth an upgrade.

Link here to Chebby's post/review from last year... I know I'll be upgrading to the the blue once funds allow for sure!

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the link. My Red is around 6 months/300 hours play old so I guess I'll leave it a while yet before an upgrade.

 

[Niglets]

Hombres I'm getting ready to send a 2M blue back for A) noticably lower output than my red B) distortion on right channel. As OP says especially noticable on classical strings. Well at least I know I'm not alone in the experience. To the question on red vs. blue hi-fi world says they had similar test results as far as tracking, he said the blue had better top detail, but a little brighter too. The 2M sound is intact across the range, so far I have heard the red, the black, and as noted a duff blue- they all have in different degrees- Transparency, detailed, good staging, but not much added warmth.