Opinions on Onkyos A-9070 and 9000R Integrated Amps?

[csq2]

Have you demoed the A-9000R with the A-9070? I want your thoughts on the A-9000R since I was only able to demo and purchase the A-9070. I have seen the Audio GD reference amps in person and the internal circuts are works of art. I wish they put a clear window on their amps to showcase the internals. Although their circuit boards look impressive, I hope the Audio GD engineers know what they're doing because it looks like they are just cramming as many capacitors, transistors, wires, etc as they can into their boards. Room acoustics is very important and bass traps do improve the sound.

 

[DanielTura]

Well not yet and it wont be for a few months like i said i have nowhere to place new equip now so untill i move(that might be a couple of months)i wont take the trip to demo gear(its 500 miles away)but i will , trust me i wont spend the extra cash on 9000 if i wont feel its worth it.As for room acustics i asked becouse i wondered if i can do something construction wise(new house) and that room is going to be my personal space i can make adujustments to it(except for size..thats 4.5 by 3.5 meters or 14.76 by 11.48 ft hight can be adjusted).

 

[ID.]

Although I have a store that carries them close by, seeing as I'm not looking to buy I probably won't be listening any time too soon because so much of my time is taken up by work and baby duties.

 

[Frank Harvey]

The P3000/M5000 combination is certainly a potent one. We had it on demo for just over a year and used it on a variety if speakers, including the Blades, which isn't did an excellent job with (not the best, but not bad for a £4.5k amp). As mentioned, even though it is rated at 80wpc into 8ohms, it certainly sounds nothing like a typical amplifier rated 80wpc. Dynamically, I've heard very few amplifiers to match it, its response time is extremely fast. I would still say it is outclassed by the Blades, but was an ideal amp for the Reference Series, and equivalent speakers like the ProAc D40's. there was a tendency towards brightness though, which didn't bother me, but could be a little too much with the likes of KEF Reference and PMC i-Series for some people.

I did hear the A9000 prototype as I knew the rep at the time and he wanted my opinion on it, and it is certainly a lot of amplifier for the money, and very capable too, but we didn't have one of these on demo.

 

[ID.]

Looking through more Japanese user reviews of the a-9000r, it looks like it has a similar signature to the pre-power combo and some may find it s little lean or analytical.

They always quote 140w but that is into 4 ohms. It is 75w in 8 ohms, so almost doubling its power into 4 ohmns I suppose indicates good current. Most people were very satisfied with the bass, power and sound quality.

 

[hughesfleming]

The 9000r is analytical in the sense that it is very revealing. Partnering with warm speakers would not be a bad idea. I like the combination with the Sonus Faber venere but those are not as warm as you might expect. I am still on the lookout for a warm floorstander that is not as large as the Venere 2.5 but is still front ported (or back wall friendly) but I have not found one yet. I am very interested in auditioning Tannoy precision 6.4's or perhaps the Jade 5 mostly because their design should make them easier to place.

 

[csq2]

The 9000r is analytical in the sense that it is very revealing. Partnering with warm speakers would not be a bad idea. I like the combination with the Sonus Faber venere but those are not as warm as you might expect. I am still on the lookout for a warm floorstander that is not as large as the Venere 2.5 but is still front ported (or back wall friendly) but I have not found one yet. I am very interested in auditioning Tannoy precision 6.4's or perhaps the Jade 5 mostly because their design should make them easier to place.

I actually ordered the Sonus Faber Venere 2.0s and soon they will be paired up with my Onkyo. The Onkyo drove my old Totem Rainmakers flawlessly and they were not in any way analytical. I prefer it much more than my Rega Brio 3 and Totem combo. The Onkyo is more musical than any Cambridge Audio I've heard, because I've owned some their products in the past. The Wharfedale Jade's are analytical speakers, thin and bright. Tannoy Precision is lacking bass and midrange is a bit too much in your face. I choose the Venere's because they were neutral sounding with a smooth midrange. I noticed yesterday that the Onkyo is not your typical integrated amplifier and draws huge amounts of power, so thicker cables (12awg or thicker) are mandatory.

 

[hughesfleming]

Thanks for your opinion on the speakers. I have not heard the venere 2.0 as they don't seem to be available anywhere close to me but will probably work very well if the 1.5's are anything to go by. I tested B&W CM1,CM5, PM1 and a standmount from Vienna Acoustics before testing the Sonus Faber Liuto wood and Venere. I almost went for the Liuto but the Venere was easier to place and a better match in my opinion. The PM1's were super but I could not justify the price.

 

[ID.]

Interesting feedback. I really do need to listen to the Onkyo's. What many consider analytical I tend to think of as clean, open and neutral. If it weren't so big I think I'd really consider one, maybe for a 2nd system...

 

[csq2]

My local shop had the Venere 2.0's in stock in black, but I wanted the beautiful walnut finish, which is a special order for extra money. Hopefully, they look as good as in the pictures. I have listened to the PM-1s and they are much more forward sounding than the Venere's, which was a sound signature that I was too use to hearing. I wanted something that sounded a lot different than what I have right now. I was actually quite disappointed with the bass of the PM-1s, even in an acoustically damped room. What got me sold on the Veneres was the ability to convey the naturalness and timbre of the violin. The shop was using Nad masters series amplifier and cd player with Transparent audio cables to drive the Venere 2.0s, so hopefully they sound at least 85% as good in my system. Ocassionally, the Onkyo will sound thin and bright on some notes, but this could be my Klipsch horn speakers. Most of the time, the highs are quite sweet, slightly rolled off with a smooth detailed midrange. The Veneres have a silk tweeter which should tone the high frequencies and have a much neutral and natural sound than the Klipsch.

 

[DanielTura]

Hello again , posting some information ive come across witch i hope shines a bit more light on Onkyos Amps(ive come across the schematics/service manuals of both the 9070/9000R and M-5000R).

All of them share a tree stage amplification design with both pre amps being identical in every way..the difence comes with the power amps and power supplies..All of them use Toshiba TTC(NPN) paired with TTA(PNP) transistors in a parallel push-pull configuration (4 pairs for the M5000 and 9000R/chanell and only 2 pairs on the 9070- this translates in higher HCC(High instant current capacity) on the 9000R(140A)/5000R(150A) and 9070(100A).Long story short the 9000R/5000R are higher current amps.In terems of PSU both 9070/9000R are almost identical both use an EL core power transformer(witch i cant seem to find specs for..and i just guess..theyr power consuption value seems too ambigouss) ofc the 5000R has a beefyer PSU with 2 troroidal trafo units).Those fitering caps dont tell much of a story..i doubt they make any noticeable diference.

Anothter thing to note is that theyr asyc usb solution(on the 9000R)looks prety good better then most buget USB/Spdif converters(it uses a C-Media CM6631 USB-S/PDIF converter with optional clocks aded in..so digital noise/jitter shouldnt be a problem)just add quality cables and ur done.

 

[csq2]

The A-9000R has also one balanced input, higher quality aluminum feet (same as the M-5000R), and higher quality speaker terminals (same as the M-5000R). The speaker terminals on the A-9070 are gold-plated, while the speaker terminals on the A-9000R might be rhodium plated. The dual Wolfson 8742 chips have excellent sound, probably on par with some of the best dacs out there. Keep in mind Rega Dac uses the same chip, yet its USB input is limited to 48khz. Even the M-Dac's usb input is limited to 96khz. There is no need for an expensive spdif-to-usb converter for the A-9000R.

 

[csq2]

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[DanielTura]

Another thing i forgot to mention is that is uses very few ICs(2 NE5532 OpAmps for Line Out and some unspecified OpAmps for tone control witch can be bypassed using source direct..also the DIDRC buffers might be integrated..not sure)other than that everything is fully discrete(even the in digital section they use discrete circuitry for the DAC chip buffers(what looks like diamond buffers i might be wrong tho..not an expert.).

 

[csq2]

Hey Daniel, I finally found a review on the A-9000R. The reviewer used Klipsch RF-7 II speakers with them. He mentions there is midrange emphasis and that speaker matching are imporatant for the Onkyo. Midrange emphasis is a trait of all Klipsch speakers as I found out with the RF-62 IIs. As for pros, he mentions the amp's balanced tonality, incredible bass depth, and wide soundstage. It drove the RF-7 II's easily with plenty of power. Overall, the reviewer really liked the amp and mentions "this is an amp for music lovers". This is exactly what I have said in my previous posts. Someone should hire me as an audio product reviewer someday.

Review (German):

http://www.testberichte.de/d/linkfeedback/frame.html?feedbackUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avguide.ch%2Ftestbericht%2Faudiophiler-zauber-test-onkyo-a-9000r&objectId=333425&toUrl=%2Fd%2Flink%2Fm_linker.php%3Fc3_id%3D2679%26amp%3Bt_id%3D333425%26amp%3Bdest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.avguide.ch%252Ftestbericht%252Faudiophiler-zauber-test-onkyo-a-9000r%26amp%3Bm_id%3D784%26amp%3Bpos%3D4569&objectType=4

 

[DanielTura]

I read that one along with all the other german reviews(but the others i read used canton and nuvero speakers witch im not able to audion/about kefs not so sure..they might be available for audtion somewhere..)It is a good thing tho(that they pair well with Klipsch witch from what i heard are prety hard to partner without making them sound harsh(same thing for MAs RX6 speakers...I will still audtion tho as many pairs that i can find and dont exceed my budget).

Thx for the Replys&Opinions everyone.

 

[csq2]

Whathifi finally reviewed the A-9070 and they like it a lot. They say it puts amplifiers like the NAD master series int. amps to shame. Also, they say it has a very neutral tonal balance, pinpoint imaging, seamless soundstage, and a instantly likeable sound.

Here's their verdict:

FOR

Minimalist design but full featured,

detailed sound, built-in DAC

AGAINST

Bass can get a bit heavy handed

VERDICT

An awesome bargain for what itdoes and what it can do in various forms of set-ups and systems

 

[hughesfleming]

Hi csq,

You mentioned that you were considering the Sonus Faber Venere 2.0. Did you go that direction in the end?

regards

 

[csq2]

So this is what happened. I ordered the Venere 2.0 in walnut finish at the begining of May but have not received my speakers after a month of waiting. The dealer was nice enough to loan me a demo pair during my wait. First impressions of the Venere 2.0s was that it sounded confined, bright, thin, and lacked deep bass in my system. I'm sure the Venere 2.5s will sound a lot better due to the larger cabinet and extra driver. Eventually, I was tired of waiting and cancelled my order. What suprised me is that the Venere 2.0's weren't that much better than my Klipsch RF-62 II's, which are 2/5th of the price of the Venere's. I really expected a dramatic improvement in sound, but was shocked to see that my cheaper Klipsch's had similar tonality to the Venere 2.0's. My Klipsch's actually excelled the Venere's in terms of scale, bass, and clarity. The Venere's actually sounded a lot like horn speakers, probably due to the deep oval-shaped waveguide tweeter design. I expected the silk dome tweeter to sound smooth and relaxed, instead it was coarse and bright sounding. From reviews, the Venere 2.5's are darker sounding, more balanced, and have much larger dynamic reach than the bookshelf speakers. I might order the Venere 2.5's sometime in the future, but at the moment still not sure what to get considering my bad experience with the 2.0's. If anyone is thinking of getting the anything in Venere range, do not pair it with bright sounding electronics.

 

[hughesfleming]

Thanks,

I had a similar feeling with the 1.5 but they were really too small for the room which has high vaulted ceiliings. I am not considering the 2.5. When I have the time, I will demo some Opera speakers, the Seconda and Quinta and if they turn out to be too large, then there always is the Grand Mezza. This is for a place in Italy which paritally explains the speaker choice.

 

[csq2]

May I ask why you are not considering the 2.5's? After my experience with bookshelf speakers, I've become biased towards floorstanding speakers. Floorstanders just sound more balanced with better bass response to my ears. You also don't need to get expensive speaker stands.

 

[hughesfleming]

I am looking for something a little warmer. The SF venere line sound quite different from the Luito and even the Toy towers and I prefer the more classic SF sound. I am also not completely sold on how they would look in my space.

 

[csq2]

The SF Venere 2.5 are probably the best speakers you can buy within that price range. My Onkyo is extremely neutral, yet I feel the Venere's need something much warmer sounding. In one German magazine, they say the Unison Research Simply Italy was a good mach for the 2.5's despite being underpowered. The 2.5's are much better sounding than the 2.0's.

 

[Bebeboy]

Any update from users of onkyo 9070? I intend to get one. Does it pair well with monitor audio rx series?

 

[csq2]

Any update from users of onkyo 9070? I intend to get one. Does it pair well with monitor audio rx series?

The Onkyo A-9070 is a laid-back sounding amplifier with a slight emphasis on bass. Pairing with Monitor Audio would make the sound too restrained and mellow. My Klipsch speakers are a good match because they are more dynamic and forward sounding than Monitor Audio. The Creek Evolution 50A would pair better with Monitor Audio.