on a seious note how good was tape compared to other formats?

[simon3102000]

rob998:
Mate, if you want old skool, look at reel to reel, the likes of Teac X1000Rs, X2000Rs, any number of Revoxs or any high end late 80s/early 90s machine.. They are mega sought after and sound incredible because they are the absolute pinnacle of analogue recording, and given the usual caveats about decent source components, will kill any digital recorder from the same era.

Plus, they look incredibly impressive, especially back lit....
nice 1 m8, I will have a gander on the web!

 

[ultraminiature]

Compact cassettes were always consistered vastly inferior to vinyl. The better decks such as the Nakamichi and Arcam Dolby S model and even most of the top Awai and Sony decks or the £180 portable Sony Walkman Pro WM-D6C enabled high quality live recordings that indeed are very satisfying. Even recordings from vinly where very acceptable particularly if then used with a portable or in the car.

I used TDK-D C180 set up to record radio programmes and then listened to them on the train the next day. These tapes are so thin that they are almost transparent. They easily got tangled and shed oxide. But they worked and did their job well. Recordings to keep and the tape-mix - selected single tracks in a particular order, excellent for the car and to give to friends - recorded in Dolby C on TDK SA-X or Maxwell LXII-S gave excellent results.

A deck correctly set up for a particular brand of tape made a big difference. Tapes like TDK SA, SA-X chrom bias and even AD ferric ones can still be appreciated. An A/B comparision with original vinyl or CD means you can easily hear what got lost but when listening in isolation that may not interfere with enjoying the music.

As to a comparison with MP3 - analogue is more forgiving with recording faults than digital and are easier to ignore. Heavily compressed MP3 or iTune AAC files can be tiring to listen too but at 320 kBit/s and comparing to the original source can make finding a difference difficult. The best analogue sources I convert as WAVE files and these I then convert to AAC at 128kBit for use on pocket MP3 player/mobile phone.

 

[CnoEvil]

Most of the salient facts have already been covered.

The best quality was from reel to reel, but it was much less convenient than the compact cassette. Elcassette came and went, supposedly giving reel to reel performance on a larger compact cassette.

I got on best with TDK SA/SA-X, and provided you maximized the recording levels, it sounded great. There was a bit of sparkle and detail missing compared to vinyl (bit like lossy vs lossless), but I certainly preferred it to badly mastered CD.

I tried out most of the other brands - BASF, Fuji, Memorex and Scotch....Ordinary, Chrome and Ferrichrome, and recorded with Dolby B and then Dolby C.

The Tape Decks I owned were:
-Audiotronic ACD 770D
-Sony TCK 4A
-Aiwa AD-F360

A friend had a Nakamichi BX100E, which was a connoisseur's machine....good memories.

 

[georgecostanza]

Are Aiwa and Nakamichi still around ?

Do not forget the art of watching the tape counter click down and timing the recording to make the most of the tape left !

 

[CnoEvil]

Are Aiwa and Nakamichi still around ?

Do not forget the art of watching the tape counter click down and timing the recording to make the most of the tape left !

I suspect only on the second hand market, but not 100% sure.

I always went for the C90s, as you could mostly fit an album on each side. The C120s were the ones that most often turned into a birds nest!

 

[Crocodile]

Are Aiwa and Nakamichi still around ?

Do not forget the art of watching the tape counter click down and timing the recording to make the most of the tape left !

Sony bought a dying Aiwa some ten years ago but Nakamichi are still alive & well, though unsurprisingly, not making cassette decks.

http://www.nakamichi.com/flash.html

 

[SteveR750]

Those of us unfortunate to experience the delights of the Amstrad Tower System from Kays catalogue would have experienced the worst that cassette medium could offer. Desoite that, I stil use a Sony TCK400ES that I bought about 8 years ago from Currys of all places for about £120. Dolby HX pro and auto calibration with a TDK metal or even SA tapes are very very good indeed, a recording of a CDA or better a hi res track still performs better than the equivalent mp3 song from spotify in the upper mid/treble where cassette tape usually struggles.

 

[manicm]

Most of the salient facts have already been covered. The best quality was from reel to reel, but it was much less convenient than the compact cassette. Elcassette came and went, supposedly giving reel to reel performance on a larger compact cassette. I got on best with TDK SA/SA-X, and provided you maximized the recording levels, it sounded great. There was a bit of sparkle and detail missing compared to vinyl (bit like lossy vs lossless), but I certainly preferred it to badly mastered CD. I tried out most of the other brands - BASF, Fuji, Memorex and Scotch....Ordinary, Chrome and Ferrichrome, and recorded with Dolby B and then Dolby C. The Tape Decks I owned were: -Audiotronic ACD 770D -Sony TCK 4A -Aiwa AD-F360 A friend had a Nakamichi BX100E, which was a connoisseur's machine....good memories.

This was not my experience at all, cassette tape the equivalent of MP3??? We had a state of the art Technics deck, and recordings of LPs often sounded clearer than the vinyl itself. The high frequencies were intact.

 

[CnoEvil]

Most of the salient facts have already been covered. The best quality was from reel to reel, but it was much less convenient than the compact cassette. Elcassette came and went, supposedly giving reel to reel performance on a larger compact cassette. I got on best with TDK SA/SA-X, and provided you maximized the recording levels, it sounded great. There was a bit of sparkle and detail missing compared to vinyl (bit like lossy vs lossless), but I certainly preferred it to badly mastered CD. I tried out most of the other brands - BASF, Fuji, Memorex and Scotch....Ordinary, Chrome and Ferrichrome, and recorded with Dolby B and then Dolby C. The Tape Decks I owned were: -Audiotronic ACD 770D -Sony TCK 4A -Aiwa AD-F360 A friend had a Nakamichi BX100E, which was a connoisseur's machine....good memories.

This was not my experience at all, cassette tape the equivalent of MP3??? We had a state of the art Technics deck, and recordings of LPs often sounded clearer than the vinyl itself. The high frequencies were intact.

That is certainly not what I was trying to say. The comparison between lossy vs lossless was simply a (rather bad) analogy to get across that a recorded tape lost out to a good TT (LP12 in my case). IMO Well recorded tape sounds much better than MP3.

 

[Anonymous]

Most of the salient facts have already been covered. The best quality was from reel to reel, but it was much less convenient than the compact cassette. Elcassette came and went, supposedly giving reel to reel performance on a larger compact cassette. I got on best with TDK SA/SA-X, and provided you maximized the recording levels, it sounded great. There was a bit of sparkle and detail missing compared to vinyl (bit like lossy vs lossless), but I certainly preferred it to badly mastered CD. I tried out most of the other brands - BASF, Fuji, Memorex and Scotch....Ordinary, Chrome and Ferrichrome, and recorded with Dolby B and then Dolby C. The Tape Decks I owned were: -Audiotronic ACD 770D -Sony TCK 4A -Aiwa AD-F360 A friend had a Nakamichi BX100E, which was a connoisseur's machine....good memories.

This was not my experience at all, cassette tape the equivalent of MP3??? We had a state of the art Technics deck, and recordings of LPs often sounded clearer than the vinyl itself. The high frequencies were intact.

Have to agree with Cno, tape does loose out in areas like treble extension, bass solidity and image stability. I still have an old top quality Pioneer CTS-709 and there is definitly less clarity than vinyl, not more.

 

[Anonymous]

Most of the salient facts have already been covered. The best quality was from reel to reel, but it was much less convenient than the compact cassette. Elcassette came and went, supposedly giving reel to reel performance on a larger compact cassette. I got on best with TDK SA/SA-X, and provided you maximized the recording levels, it sounded great. There was a bit of sparkle and detail missing compared to vinyl (bit like lossy vs lossless), but I certainly preferred it to badly mastered CD. I tried out most of the other brands - BASF, Fuji, Memorex and Scotch....Ordinary, Chrome and Ferrichrome, and recorded with Dolby B and then Dolby C. The Tape Decks I owned were: -Audiotronic ACD 770D -Sony TCK 4A -Aiwa AD-F360 A friend had a Nakamichi BX100E, which was a connoisseur's machine....good memories.

This was not my experience at all, cassette tape the equivalent of MP3??? We had a state of the art Technics deck, and recordings of LPs often sounded clearer than the vinyl itself. The high frequencies were intact.

That is certainly not what I was trying to say. The comparison between lossy vs lossless was simply a (rather bad) analogy to get across that a recorded tape lost out to a good TT (LP12 in my case). IMO Well recorded tape sounds much better than MP3.

Correct again.

 

[plastic penguin]

Yup, loved cassettes. Certainly no issue with SQ but they were a constant frustration to me. Give them about 4-6 months and the car or home player would grind to halt as a tangle of brown celluloid meant ages was spent to detangle, only to find the tape was snapped and buy another cassette.

 

[SteveR750]

The peril of the C120

 

[stevieg330]

Hi,

I have a Sony TCK-A6ES cassette deck and use TDK-MA tapes on it. Once calibrated it is sometimes quite hard to hear the difference between it and the source. This does depend somewhat on the type of material being recorded but usually the givaway is that things like a kick or snare drum don't have quite the same slam as the original. It just sits back in the mix a little more. With simple stuff like a guitar and vocals it's very hard to hear any difference between original and recording.

I have noticed that the most detailed sound is recorded without using any Dolby noise reduction (including Dolby S)

Considering the inherent limitations of cassette I think it does remarkably well. I don't notice any drop in treble, air or imaging compared to the originals either.

I would love to get hold of a Nakamichi CR7E which is supposed to be the best cassette deck ever made, even better than the Dragons but they do go for quite a lot of money. Trouble is that decent tapes nowadays are so expensive to buy.

I also have a Revox A77 High speed (15ips) recorder and that is just great. Running at the high speed you really can't tell the difference between it and the source. Mind you a 10 inch reel only lasts 25 minutes or so! Running it at 7.5ips there isn't much difference either, just a little more hiss.

Finally I have a Sony walkman WM-DC2 cassette player which has always been highly regarded and it does sound superb, far better than any portable digital player I have ever listened to.

I think, done well with decent gear, tape is / was a good medium and certainly not laughable. That's my opinion anyway!

Cheers

Steve

 

[stevieg330]

Hmmmn, I now have a drunk smiley instead of it saying Dolby S and a bracket. Oh well!

Cheers

Steve

 

[SteveR750]

Hi,

I have a Sony TCK-A6ES cassette deck and use TDK-MA tapes on it. Once calibrated it is sometimes quite hard to hear the difference between it and the source. This does depend somewhat on the type of material being recorded but usually the givaway is that things like a kick or snare drum don't have quite the same slam as the original. It just sits back in the mix a little more. With simple stuff like a guitar and vocals it's very hard to hear any difference between original and recording.

I have noticed that the most detailed sound is recorded without using any Dolby noise reduction (including Dolby S)

Considering the inherent limitations of cassette I think it does remarkably well. I don't notice any drop in treble, air or imaging compared to the originals either.

I would love to get hold of a Nakamichi CR7E which is supposed to be the best cassette deck ever made, even better than the Dragons but they do go for quite a lot of money. Trouble is that decent tapes nowadays are so expensive to buy.

I also have a Revox A77 High speed (15ips) recorder and that is just great. Running at the high speed you really can't tell the difference between it and the source. Mind you a 10 inch reel only lasts 25 minutes or so! Running it at 7.5ips there isn't much difference either, just a little more hiss.

Finally I have a Sony walkman WM-DC2 cassette player which has always been highly regarded and it does sound superb, far better than any portable digital player I have ever listened to.

I think, done well with decent gear, tape is / was a good medium and certainly not laughable. That's my opinion anyway!

Cheers

Steve

Oh yes, I wanted one too for a long time.

For a bit of over-indulgence

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nakamichi-DRAGON-Audiophile-Cassette-Deck-/180802247031?pt=UK_CE_Cassette_RL&hash=item2a18a75977#ht_500wt_1203

 

[Anonymous]

You should all remember that,

"Home Taping Is Killing Music...

...and it's Illegal"