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OLED burn-in risk understated?

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nuppard

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Mar 15, 2008
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Bought an LG OLED65E6V Oct 2016 (£4500) after the many glowing reviews including What HiFi’s & being impressed by own viewings. But what most reviews at the time didn’t mention & what What HiFi is still failing to warn about is the risk of permanent image burn-in to OLED panels.

Several weeks ago first noticed after images on my TV which later proved to be the BBC News logo line that’s almost always present during its broadcast. This image does disappear into darker backgrounds but shows very clearly in lighter blocks of colour like red, green or yellow.

Neither of LG’s ‘solution’ to this problem have either prevented it or fixed it. The burn-in image issue is permanent & I’ve been advised the only solution is to replace the entire OLED panel at a cost of over £3000.

Even though the TV is only 20 months old, LG have refused to take responsibility because it’s beyond their 12 month warranty. Domestic & General who supplied a 4 year extension policy on the TV have also said that they do not provide cover for permanent screen burn.

I also need to state that I believe I’ve done nothing unusual to cause this burn-in issue other than watching the BBC News channel most days & probably at most for no more than a few hours each day. The TV is always switched off at night & is usually switched off during the day when not in use.

So has this permanent screen burn-in image been caused by me simply watching the same channel most days and is there an accumulative effect over time here?

Its simply not good enough for professional review sights like What HiFi to ignore or gloss over this issue when the consequences can be hugely expensive to consumers who will be left stranded by this problem.

And if you think I’m exaggerating, just look at the current advice on the What HiFi site for OLED in general or on OLED v QLED - no direct warning of burn-in risks only a vague tangential warning about the earlier wear of blue leds.
 

gel

Moderator
And you can’t simply blame WHF all reviews give it 5 stars etc. Even Pioneer plasma TVs do this too if you are unfortunate, Steve Withers on AVF had screen burn on his recently sold Pioneer 5090 TV, so did I. Where did you buy the TV from?
 

jjbomber

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Dec 22, 2006
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nuppard said:
Neither of LG’s ‘solution’ to this problem have either prevented it or fixed it. The burn-in image issue is permanent & I’ve been advised the only solution is to replace the entire OLED panel at a cost of over £3000.

Even though the TV is only 20 months old, LG have refused to take responsibility because it’s beyond their 12 month warranty.
If you paid by credit card you can make a Section 75 claim. They will refund the value of a 20 month old TV.
 

Native_bon

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Nov 26, 2008
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It's got nothing to do with settings. This problem of screen burnin largely has to do with the production process, and LG has admit that some of their screens could be prone to screen retention. I also read this will now be fully covered even when out of warranty period, but not certain how long a period. It's like panel lottery if you ask me. RTINGS.COM did a test to show case the problem.

https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/real-life-oled-burn-in-test
 

chebby

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2008
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Get a cheap little LED telly for non-critical viewing (like looking at news channels for ‘a few hours each day’) and keep the good TV for movies and good quality HD content.

Old CRTs were a bit prone to this problem as well (especially with the then new station ‘idents’) if you left them on the same station a lot.

It’s nothing new. (Except for the outrageous price of the technology it now affects!)

I guess it’s one of the downsides of being an ‘early adopter’ in that you are also testing the new technology (as well as paying off a bigger chunk of the R&D than people who buy later when the technology has ‘matured’ and become a commodity).

Good luck getting it fixed though.
 

Gray

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Nov 27, 2015
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My attention was drawn to the second paragraph of your original post Nuppard.

The exact same symptom occurred on a brand new Sony LCD set that my brother purchased a few months back. The BBC News banner was very faintly showing.

The symptom could have been interpreted as screen burn, but we knew it wasn't. This retention was very faint, not always fully noticeable, but very annoying. It was almost like a breakthrough from another live source. (Of course, we isolated connected sources).

This definate problem was so slight that I would suggest many users wouldn't notice it. Indeed, my brother feared Richer Sounds would not notice it when he demonstrated it to them in the store. They did though and they couldn't explain it.

Here's the point. He bought a replacement Sony LCD which exhibited the same problem. It was something within the electronics of those sets that was causing the problem. The Panasonic he bought next had no such issue (it would have been easy to conclude he was somehow causing the problem)

It may well be the case that, after 20 months, screen burn has occurred on your set. But I'm saying that screen burn is not the only potential cause of image retention. Whatever the cause, it's unacceptable and I hope you get a satisfactory outcome.
 

Native_bon

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Nov 26, 2008
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Gray said:
My attention was drawn to the second paragraph of your original post Nuppard.

The exact same symptom occurred on a brand new Sony LCD set that my brother purchased a few months back. The BBC News banner was very faintly showing.

The symptom could have been interpreted as screen burn, but we knew it wasn't. This retention was very faint, not always fully noticeable, but very annoying. It was almost like a breakthrough from another live source. (Of course, we isolated connected sources).

This definate problem was so slight that I would suggest many users wouldn't notice it. Indeed, my brother feared Richer Sounds would not notice it when he demonstrated it to them in the store. They did though and they couldn't explain it.

Here's the point. He bought a replacement Sony LCD which exhibited the same problem. It was something within the electronics of those sets that was causing the problem. The Panasonic he bought next had no such issue (it would have been easy to conclude he was somehow causing the problem)

It may well be the case that, after 20 months, screen burn has occurred on your set. But I'm saying that screen burn is not the only potential cause of image retention. Whatever the cause, it's unacceptable and I hope you get a satisfactory outcome.
Retention on LCD TV set? This is the first time I'm hearing this. What model was this?
 

bigboss

Moderator
Native_bon said:
Gray said:
My attention was drawn to the second paragraph of your original post Nuppard.

The exact same symptom occurred on a brand new Sony LCD set that my brother purchased a few months back. The BBC News banner was very faintly showing. 

The symptom could have been interpreted as screen burn, but we knew it wasn't. This retention was very faint, not always fully noticeable, but very annoying. It was almost like a breakthrough from another live source. (Of course, we isolated connected sources).

This definate problem was so slight that I would suggest many users wouldn't notice it. Indeed, my brother feared Richer Sounds would not notice it when he demonstrated it to them in the store. They did though and they couldn't explain it.

Here's the point. He bought a replacement Sony LCD which exhibited the same problem. It was something within the electronics of those sets that was causing the problem. The Panasonic he bought next had no such issue (it would have been easy to conclude he was somehow causing the problem)

It may well be the case that, after 20 months, screen burn has occurred on your set. But I'm saying that screen burn is not the only potential cause of image retention. Whatever the cause, it's unacceptable and I hope you get a satisfactory outcome.
Retention on LCD TV set? This is the first time I'm hearing this. What model was this?
LCDs definitely suffer from retention too. My Lenovo ThinkPad laptop has it (looks more permanent than temporary to me), so does my Samsung TV.

https://ctouch.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005481649-LCD-technology-and-image-retention
 

Gray

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2015
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Retention on LCD TV set? This is the first time I'm hearing this. What model was this?

[/quote]

Let's be clear, I'm not saying it was screen burn because the 'retention', though more often present than not, was not permanent.

If I can get the model number off my brother, I'll post it on this thread.
 

Native_bon

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2008
180
2
18,595
bigboss said:
Native_bon said:
Gray said:
My attention was drawn to the second paragraph of your original post Nuppard.

The exact same symptom occurred on a brand new Sony LCD set that my brother purchased a few months back. The BBC News banner was very faintly showing.

The symptom could have been interpreted as screen burn, but we knew it wasn't. This retention was very faint, not always fully noticeable, but very annoying. It was almost like a breakthrough from another live source. (Of course, we isolated connected sources).

This definate problem was so slight that I would suggest many users wouldn't notice it. Indeed, my brother feared Richer Sounds would not notice it when he demonstrated it to them in the store. They did though and they couldn't explain it.

Here's the point. He bought a replacement Sony LCD which exhibited the same problem. It was something within the electronics of those sets that was causing the problem. The Panasonic he bought next had no such issue (it would have been easy to conclude he was somehow causing the problem)

It may well be the case that, after 20 months, screen burn has occurred on your set. But I'm saying that screen burn is not the only potential cause of image retention. Whatever the cause, it's unacceptable and I hope you get a satisfactory outcome.
Retention on LCD TV set? This is the first time I'm hearing this. What model was this?
LCDs definitely suffer from retention too. My Lenovo ThinkPad laptop has it (looks more permanent than temporary to me), so does my Samsung TV.

https://ctouch.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005481649-LCD-technology...
So if I'm correct you had a Plasma for a number of year with no screen burn, but had it with your Samsung LCD TV set and laptop. Now that is something..
 

bigboss

Moderator
Native_bon said:
bigboss said:
Native_bon said:
Gray said:
My attention was drawn to the second paragraph of your original post Nuppard.

The exact same symptom occurred on a brand new Sony LCD set that my brother purchased a few months back. The BBC News banner was very faintly showing. 

The symptom could have been interpreted as screen burn, but we knew it wasn't. This retention was very faint, not always fully noticeable, but very annoying. It was almost like a breakthrough from another live source. (Of course, we isolated connected sources).

This definate problem was so slight that I would suggest many users wouldn't notice it. Indeed, my brother feared Richer Sounds would not notice it when he demonstrated it to them in the store. They did though and they couldn't explain it.

Here's the point. He bought a replacement Sony LCD which exhibited the same problem. It was something within the electronics of those sets that was causing the problem. The Panasonic he bought next had no such issue (it would have been easy to conclude he was somehow causing the problem)

It may well be the case that, after 20 months, screen burn has occurred on your set. But I'm saying that screen burn is not the only potential cause of image retention. Whatever the cause, it's unacceptable and I hope you get a satisfactory outcome.
Retention on LCD TV set? This is the first time I'm hearing this. What model was this?
LCDs definitely suffer from retention too. My Lenovo ThinkPad laptop has it (looks more permanent than temporary to me), so does my Samsung TV.

https://ctouch.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005481649-LCD-technology...
So if I'm correct you had a Plasma for a number of year with no screen burn, but had it with your Samsung LCD TV set and laptop. Now that is something..
There's no one channel I watch on my plasma constantly. The Samsung LCD is in my bedroom and we watch only a couple of specific channels (hence the logo is there for longer). With laptop, the Windows Start button is constantly at one place, and so is the task bar. My Samsung LCD is 8 years old, while my plasma is 5 years old. The screen burn I suspect is on my laptop, and IR on the TV.
 

nuppard

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Mar 15, 2008
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OLED65E6V was professionally calibrated by Vincent Teoh from HDTVTEST shortly after buying the TV and the ISF Expert Bright & Dark room settings were password protected so only I had access. Have used the ISF Expert Bright room settings ever since.

But also think that LG is hiding behind its vague claim that excessively long displays of fixed images are responsible for burn-in. What does excessive mean & does this include an accumulative effect of the same image for a few hours a day over many days or weeks.

Evidence from Rtings.com & elsewhere suggests LG (& other?) OLED panels are much more susceptible to burn-in than LG wants to admit to. Variability in individual OLED panels, so that some may be more easily burnt, also looks like a major issue that LG does not want discussed
 

nuppard

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Mar 15, 2008
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As I understand it JL also exclude screen burn-in from any warranties they give & its common for manufacturers to also exclude burn-in. Samsung QLEDs being the biggest exception perhaps. But have also read that LG do now cover burn-in during first 12 months.
 

nuppard

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Mar 15, 2008
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Paid for TV by interest free loan but suspect LG could still be liable to claims as must be of merchantable quality for up to 6 years? But how to prove liability? LG’s poor quality or my ‘negligence’?
 

nuppard

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Mar 15, 2008
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Is often temporary & will self fix but mine is definitely permanent although not always visible. It is however obviously visible every few minutes depending on how light the background is. OLED’s are much more susceptible to burn-in than LED or QLED apparently as it’s the Organic element of the leds that makes them prone to wear & fading.
 

jjbomber

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Dec 22, 2006
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nuppard said:
Paid for TV by interest free loan but suspect LG could still be liable to claims as must be of merchantable quality for up to 6 years? But how to prove liability? LG’s poor quality or my ‘negligence’?
Did you pay a deposit by credit card? That is enough to trigger a Section 75 claim. Ironically mine was also an LG tele. It packed up after 25 months. The TV was £600. The power supply failed. I had to get a TV engineer's report to confirm that it was beyond economic repair. That cost £40. I then had a refund of the value of a 25 month old TV, which was £400, and also a refund of the report, £40.
 

nuppard

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Mar 15, 2008
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Good news on warranty front. The company (Kings Electronics Southall) nominated by Domestic & General to inspect & report on my LG TV had subsequently prompted D&G to write to me to say they would not cover burn-in.

But the manager from KE then offered to speak to D&G about this & has somehow managed to change their mind. So D&G have agreed to meet the full parts & labour cost of a replacement panel which is now on order from Korea. Have no idea what he said to persuade them though!
 

Q5

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drummerman said:
bigboss said:
Native_bon said:
Gray said:
My attention was drawn to the second paragraph of your original post Nuppard.

The exact same symptom occurred on a brand new Sony LCD set that my brother purchased a few months back. The BBC News banner was very faintly showing.

The symptom could have been interpreted as screen burn, but we knew it wasn't. This retention was very faint, not always fully noticeable, but very annoying. It was almost like a breakthrough from another live source. (Of course, we isolated connected sources).

This definate problem was so slight that I would suggest many users wouldn't notice it. Indeed, my brother feared Richer Sounds would not notice it when he demonstrated it to them in the store. They did though and they couldn't explain it.

Here's the point. He bought a replacement Sony LCD which exhibited the same problem. It was something within the electronics of those sets that was causing the problem. The Panasonic he bought next had no such issue (it would have been easy to conclude he was somehow causing the problem)

It may well be the case that, after 20 months, screen burn has occurred on your set. But I'm saying that screen burn is not the only potential cause of image retention. Whatever the cause, it's unacceptable and I hope you get a satisfactory outcome.
Retention on LCD TV set? This is the first time I'm hearing this. What model was this?
LCDs definitely suffer from retention too. My Lenovo ThinkPad laptop has it (looks more permanent than temporary to me), so does my Samsung TV.

https://ctouch.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005481649-LCD-technology...
Thats news to me too and hard to believe though I am not saying there isn't something wrong with your TV/laptop.

Its self emissive organic display panels that suffer from IR. There may be some ghosting on LCD's for a short while but nothing permanent afaik.
LCD do suffer from permanent image retention, someone purchased two 65 inch ones as display screens at work and the open window they placed in the centre is permanetly visisable no matter what you view.
 

drummerman

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Jan 18, 2008
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bigboss said:
Native_bon said:
Gray said:
My attention was drawn to the second paragraph of your original post Nuppard.

The exact same symptom occurred on a brand new Sony LCD set that my brother purchased a few months back. The BBC News banner was very faintly showing.

The symptom could have been interpreted as screen burn, but we knew it wasn't. This retention was very faint, not always fully noticeable, but very annoying. It was almost like a breakthrough from another live source. (Of course, we isolated connected sources).

This definate problem was so slight that I would suggest many users wouldn't notice it. Indeed, my brother feared Richer Sounds would not notice it when he demonstrated it to them in the store. They did though and they couldn't explain it.

Here's the point. He bought a replacement Sony LCD which exhibited the same problem. It was something within the electronics of those sets that was causing the problem. The Panasonic he bought next had no such issue (it would have been easy to conclude he was somehow causing the problem)

It may well be the case that, after 20 months, screen burn has occurred on your set. But I'm saying that screen burn is not the only potential cause of image retention. Whatever the cause, it's unacceptable and I hope you get a satisfactory outcome.
Retention on LCD TV set? This is the first time I'm hearing this. What model was this?
LCDs definitely suffer from retention too. My Lenovo ThinkPad laptop has it (looks more permanent than temporary to me), so does my Samsung TV.

https://ctouch.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005481649-LCD-technology...
Thats news to me too and hard to believe though I am not saying there isn't something wrong with your TV/laptop.

Its self emissive organic display panels that suffer from IR aka burn-in. There may be some ghosting on LCD's for a short while but nothing permanent afaik.
 

aliEnRIK

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Aug 27, 2008
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Native_bon said:
It's got nothing to do with settings. This problem of screen burnin largely has to do with the production process, and LG has admit that some of their screens could be prone to screen retention. I also read this will now be fully covered even when out of warranty period, but not certain how long a period. It's like panel lottery if you ask me. RTINGS.COM did a test to show case the problem.

https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/real-life-oled-burn-in-test
The OP has problems with the BBC logo and the link you provided states a certain section is due to the production process but that does not mean the settings wont make a difference.
For example, if everything was turned to the lowest possible settings im guessing the screen would be virtually black and I suspect the BBC logo would not be an issue. Similarly, if evrerything was maxed out theres a good chance the bbc logo would 'burn in' (If thats the correct statement).
The settings should be whatever it needs to be calibrated. Im a tad taken aback if people watch tv and read WHF without calibrated screens
 

Brek

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Nov 12, 2011
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Watching the BBC, that was your first mistake. Seriously though it’s been well discussed and known about since the technology launched. If I was to ever start watching live Broadcasts again (unlikely)I would buy a standard led tv. I do not watch any form of live TV so thankfully will never have the issue of logo burn. Hence I have just bought an oled.
 
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