not impressed by wonder budget speakers

[robdmarsh]

Hello everyone

I'm new to the forum

Recently purchased: Marantz m-cr603 and love it! Have 20 year-old Celestion 3 (mark 2) speakers and love them too but thinking that new speaker technology must've moved on some, and wanting a similar sound but maybe with more punch, I convinced myself to buy a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 220s, darlings of the Hifi press.

Result: Mehhhh!! A very uninvolving, lifelsess sound, distinctly unimpressed! Where's the sweetness, the subtlety, the (dare I say it) musicality of my 20 year-old babies, even with one bashed-in tweeter?! Am I missing something here, is there something wrong with my hearing? No, I don't think so... and no, I don't believe in the snake oilism of speaker burn-in! .... let's not go there. Come on, if I put my dog-eared old loves on ebay I'd be lucky to get £30, unless they were stumbled upon by someone who knew better, but I won't let them go now. Tbh, I remember making the same mistake trying out the Diamond 9.1 a few years ago with my previous much loved Teac mini-system, and same result! Is it just Wharfedale?

So my dilemma is: same sweet sound, but more umphh. I know the amp is capable of it and I know there must be some bargains out there. But new designs, I'm suspicious.... too much spent on finishes and marketing I reckon.

B&W 601 s2.... a few of them coming up on used market and as far as I remember these were great. Any tips to help me out here gratefully received! Budget about £200 on new or used... just to add my Celetions have a sensitivity of 88 dB

Thanks

Rob

 

[MajorFubar]

Is it possible you're expecting too muchfor too little? The Celesion 3s were about the same price 25 years ago as the speakers you're now pitting them against. That said, I'm also tempted to agree that the 'tone' (urgh) of budget speakers has changed in that time, moving away from warm and cuddly but untimately a bit burry, to a sound that some perceive as too cold, clinical and uninviting.

 

[Frank Harvey]

That Celestion range was on of my favourite at the time. Matched up with a suitable Rotel amp, open top stands (the Epos ES11 stands at the time), Naim speaker cable, a Chord Cobra interconnect - and a source of your choice - the systems sounded amazing. Tons of detail and control, not overpowered by bass, with good midrange presence. The stands helped them a lot, as I found heavy single column stands made them sound muddy.

I can see where you're coming from. You had a nicely balanced speaker that didn't try and overdo the bass, to a modern speaker that has just a little too much (in my personal opinion, but I suppose it depends on music preferences). If you don't already use multi-column, open top plate stands, I'd highly recommend you give them a try. I don't think Epos make the ones I used to use, but you could look at the Custom Design FS104, which is about the nearest I can think of. See if your local dealer can let you borrow them over a weekend or something to try out.

 

[robdmarsh]

Thanks a lot for that... I'll definitely check out your stand recommendations.

But how about the B&Ws that I mentioned? It sounds like you've been in the industry a few years... as far as I remember, these were pretty nice speakers with maybe a similar tonal balance but a bigger, punchier sound, but I know this is dependent on the amplifier. However, the Marantz cr603 has 60 wpc so it should be able to handle them fine, right?

 

[robdmarsh]

Thanks, I take your point about the change in speaker design regarding tone. But there must some manufacturer aiming at that sweet but detailed sound I'm after. Can anyone comment on the B&Ws or how about Q acoustic 3020s?

 

[robdmarsh]

OK, I think I may have misjudged these speakers. They're certainly getting better as I've played them and there is more punch to the sound. Whether I like them tonally as much as my Celestions remains to be seen but I think I was a bit hasty to judge.

Does anybody think the Cambridge Audio 3020s are better? Or how do they compare?

 

[robdmarsh]

Sorry, did I say Cambridge Audio 3020s? I meant of course Q acoustics! Doh!!

 

[robdmarsh]

OK so I've run in my 220s for a few days, playing low volume at night and when I'm out and then listening at normal levels when in. And I was getting on quite well with them, or so I thought. They are more dynamic and there's definitely bigger range of sound (than the Celestions). Their tone has also improved a lot. But something was annoying me - some rather strident treble on some of my favourite tracks and sometimes a kind of disjointed, unintegrated sound. I plugged in the Celestions again just to see if my ears weren't playing tricks on me. And lo and behold, that old sound I loved was back, smaller but definitely not without depth, and a way of drawing you into the music that the Wharfedales (so far) can't match. Particularly great are voices, pianos and acoustic guitars, so I suppose it's the upper-mid range that shines.

So my quest continues, I'll keep on looking for something with a similar but more powerful sound. I think new I would have to spend quite a lot - something like Rega rs1 which I heard the other day and really liked. There are quite a lot used 601 s2 coming up on ebay so I'll give them a try. They're nearly fifteen years old so I'm hoping they may have a tonal balance I would like.

If anyone has any thoughts I would love to hear them....

 

[Frank Harvey]

Have you though about a used pair of 7s or 9s?

 

[robdmarsh]

Thanks for your suggestion.

Celestion 5s maybe but 7 and 9 too big for my purposes. I note that you don't comment on the B&Ws which I thought you would have experience of.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Thanks for your suggestion.

Celestion 5s maybe but 7 and 9 too big for my purposes. I note that you don't comment on the B&Ws which I thought you would have experience of.

I wouldn't like to say if the 601 S2 would be exactly what you're looking for. They're a little different to the Celestions, with bass balance not too dissimilar to the Whatfedales. That's not to say they're similar overall though, and they're certainly not lifeless! They'll require a little more space to work well in comparison to the Celestions.

 

[robdmarsh]

Thanks for that.

Now, this is interesting. I've seen some Castle Knight 4s on ebay. They look great. I know they're also famous for a mellow sound. Do know these?

 

[robdmarsh]

Just to add you may be thinking why floor standers when I said that 7s or 9s would be too big. Well, the footprint on these is small and of course no stands to worry about...

 

[Frank Harvey]

Thanks for that.

Now, this is interesting. I've seen some Castle Knight 4s on ebay. They look great. I know they're also famous for a mellow sound. Do know these?

Sorry, not familiar with those.