Not Always The Expensive is Better

[music 24]

Hello all
When you buy or upgrade your audio system (CD, amplifier, speakers) especially when it's to Compare with specific product,
Can you came to Conclude that not always the expensive is better/ favorite.
for example Cambridge audio 751bd and amr CD 777 for playing cd only on 2 channels stereo I found 751 much better for my ears
Also the same thing with integrated amp for example storm audio v55 and karan 180 mk ii.
Would like to hear your story with your product.

 

[bigfish786]

There are no set rules that say more expensive means better quality sound.

in my experience, it has been worth paying more to upgrade.

but from the amount of people that use hifi forums, this is definitely not always the case.

my advice has always been about optimising set-up.

Speakers in the right position.

components on decent furniture.

room acoustics understood. And it's limitations.

Only when you know (or are damn sure) that you are listening to your system at its optimum do you need to even consider upgrades.

 

[stereoman]

Hello all When you buy or upgrade your audio system (CD, amplifier, speakers) especially when it's to Compare with specific product, Can you came to Conclude that not always the expensive is better/ favorite.

No. It's a wrong conclusion. Almost always more expensive stuff is better / sounds better. 99,9%. The wrong conclusion stems from the fact that apart from the price there is a character of the given expensive thing. And either it suits to your / someone's taste or not. If you buy sth. much cheaper and are honestly happy with it then you're lucky. But I can agree to some extent. Sometimes it happens. Sometimes the stuff is hugely overpriced.

 

[Native_bon]

There are no set rules that say more expensive means better quality sound.

in my experience, it has been worth paying more to upgrade.

but from the amount of people that use hifi forums, this is definitely not always the case.

my advice has always been about optimising set-up.

Speakers in the right position.

components on decent furniture.

room acoustics understood. And it's limitations.

Only when you know (or are damn sure) that you are listening to your system at its optimum do you need to even consider upgrades.

Cannot agree more. Inshort more expensive boxes needs even more attention to detail & if wrongly set up this could lead to problems. The more accurate a system is, the more you need to set it up properly. Having said that, I still dn't believe a high percent of people actually get real improvements after an upgrade or spending much more. I have tried so many expensive systems & just feel cold & uninspired after a listen. You really have to be clued up to know what you looking for, if not you will just end up with expensive boxes with no advantage to your listening pleasure.

Expensive may sound better, but even more careful pairing and attention to detail is needed. Get it wrong & it may sound far worse than a budget system.

 

[lindsayt]

If we're going by retail price when new, adjusted for inflation, in my experience, more expensive is better 60% to 70% of the time. That's if the two products are taken at random.

If you start cherry picking components and have a reasonable amount of experience at trying different things you can rig the percentages so that the majority of cheaper stuff sounds worse and the majority of more expensive stuff sounds only equally good or worse.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

This is a tricky one .... I personally think that Hifi start to get really good when you have a budget of around £6000 .... Amp £2000 , cdplayer £2000 , speakers £2000 roughly around £6000 would buy you a very good Hifi and all of the components are well constructed and would sound amazing this is where I stop at £6000 budget wise it's taken me time and lots of money wasted on box changing because I was not happy with the sound but at the time of each changing I thought I had great sound it's not until you start spending £2000 on an amp and so on and you have the right combination of components you realise wow I have it a great Hifi setup and then you will realise yes it is worth buying expensive Hifi .

So yes it is worth buying expensive Hifi 100% I think you get a more real sound

then you get the person who buys a marantz pm6005 + cd6005 with Dali Zensor 3s and they will think what they have is amazing and they are happy its budget Hifi but so what that person has find there sound and what they have spent is worth it to them that's the setup I started with I was happy at the start and then the Hifi bug took over

so in short everyone has there own thinking and believe what they think is worth it or not

 

[lindsayt]

Blacksabbath25, what speakers at £2000 do you think sound really good?

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Blacksabbath25, what speakers at £2000 do you think sound really good?

my dali opticon 8s they cost me £2000 new there lots of good speakers around this price that are good

 

[Gaz37]

Many blind tests have shown expensive high end kit to be a waste of money.

Two famous examples being the Matrix Audio test and the coathanger interconnect test.

Having said that many people are happy believing that they got good value from their expensive systems and I guess as long as they're happy that's all that counts, equally the marketing people who convinced them (often subconsciously) to spend several thousand pounds on a hundred pounds worth of components in a posh box are also happy.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

My ears are my blind test and I believe you get what you pay for everyone has there own ideas on what they think is good and I can honestly say I can tell the difference between a marantz pm6005 sound and what I have now you get quality and a quality sound to go with it

 

[NSA_watch_my_toilet]

My ears are my blind test

I'm happy we have so many godlike posters on this forum that defy every law of biology. It's a bless of heaven.

 

[NSA_watch_my_toilet]

For music 24. Hifi is a very large piece of a hobby. What you say can be true in certain case, in other not and depend on numerous factors.

First would be that some builders have a better price/performance orientation. This could come from slave labour in asia, or simply, other choice in the way they bring their products on the market. So, for a same price, you could have different level of quality and performances.

After that, it let's speak about the necessity to have this quality. For an amplifier, the need of extreme highly priced and highly capable amplifier can be discussed if the speaker that are used are :
1) of low quality
2) absolutely uncritic to feed for optimal performance

Cd players are around the same.

For speakers, generally. A better quality in the building process and materials should come to shine at listening. Even if it's not always the case. Some brand are better to give you the performance for the bucks, other are ridiculously bad.

And then comes the personal tastes. Lots of users, on this forum too, are sharing the opinion that ProAc made great speakers, because they like this sound. For me, it's absolutely the most awful sound you can have. Two absolutely diverging opinions of an absolutely same product. Both are legit.

 

[music 24]

Everybody says right..
I'm Agree with all who answer my question.
That's right it's definitely Depending on the acoustics & a lot of things ....
But sometimes when you coming to compare specific product "sometimes" you can hear and understand that it's not "always" the expensive is better/favorite.
Yes the build quality on expensive players, speakers and amp are excellent, that's for sure.
Thanks for answers

 

[Native_bon]

For music 24. Hifi is a very large piece of a hobby. What you say can be true in certain case, in other not and depend on numerous factors.

First would be that some builders have a better price/performance orientation. This could come from slave labour in asia, or simply, other choice in the way they bring their products on the market. So, for a same price, you could have different level of quality and performances.

After that, it let's speak about the necessity to have this quality. For an amplifier, the need of extreme highly priced and highly capable amplifier can be discussed if the speaker that are used are :1) of low quality2) absolutely uncritic to feed for optimal performance

Cd players are around the same.

For speakers, generally. A better quality in the building process and materials should come to shine at listening. Even if it's not always the case. Some brand are better to give you the performance for the bucks, other are ridiculously bad.

And then comes the personal tastes. Lots of users, on this forum too, are sharing the opinion that ProAc made great speakers, because they like this sound. For me, it's absolutely the most awful sound you can have. Two absolutely diverging opinions of an absolutely same product. Both are legit.

Seem you make sense of what you say, cause I always say SQ will always depend on the ears of the listener. Just out of curiosity, what is it about the sound of ProAc speakers you dn't like.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Expensive hifi can sound fantastic or it can sound sh(rhymes with kite). Depends on whether it's genuinely good, or just expensive.

It's all in your ears and head, some would say. Well, yes, that's true. In extremis, no good hifi is going to sound brilliant if you're stone deaf, for example.

On the flip side, some people with really good ears or a training can pick out nuances that we mere mortals cannot. It's a bit like Lewise Hamilton coming into the pits and adding 1 psi to his back right tyre and trimming 0.1 seconds off his lap time. He can appreciate the change, mere mortals like me would just be sitting there soiling their underpants thinking "flipping heck, this thing's fast!".

The laws of diminishing returns effect performance. a 100% increase in component costs, say from a $500 Argos special to a $1000 Currys special, probably only brings out a 50% increase in sound quality (however you like to measure it). Double it again to $2000 and you'll probably ony see a 25% increase. Double it a third time to $4000 and you'll only see a 12.5% improvement. So to go from say a score of 10 for the Argos piece at $500 to the "Brand X" piece at $4000, the price has gone up eight-fold, while the score only goes up from 10 to (10+5+2.5+1.25=) 18.75, not 80. If you follow this mathematical progression, by the way, you can go on doubling the price indefinitely, but the score never quite reaches 20.

The number of units produced goes down exponentially as well, as nowhere near as many people are going to buy a $4000 stereo as will a $500 one, so manufacturing costs go up exponentially as well.

And finally, there's the bling factor. Some brands, mentioning no names but examples include a brand name rhymes with Nose, and another named after a piece of fruit, trade as much on bling, fashion, and marketing as they do on actual performance.

 

[Gaz37]

My ears are my blind test and I believe you get what you pay for everyone has there own ideas on what they think is good and I can honestly say I can tell the difference between a marantz pm6005 sound and what I have now you get quality and a quality sound to go with it

The problem is that your ears will be sent a preconception from your brain if you know what you are going to listen to. That preconception will have been sunconciously placed there by marketing people, reviewers & peers.

I'm sure you genuinely believe that you can hear a difference between the PM6005 and your own amp, question is could you tell mystery amp A from mystery amp B when you have no idea whether they cost £200 or £2000? It seems that not many people can.

I remember in 1995 VAG invited 10 car enthusiasts to a pre-launch viewing of their new Audi saloon (which had its indentity hidden) they were asked to mark it on its build quality, equipment, styling and if they would buy it. The same people were then asked to to do the same with the new Skoda Octavia. The Audi was consistently marked 2-3 points above the Skoda in every category. The funny part was that the Audi A4 was really the Octavia and vice versa. The VAG marketing people did a very efficient of hushing this up as they make far more money from the Audi brand.

 

[Andrewjvt]

My ears are my blind test and I believe you get what you pay for everyone has there own ideas on what they think  is good and I can honestly say I can tell the difference between a marantz pm6005 sound and what I have now you get quality and a quality sound to go with it 

The problem is that your ears will be sent a preconception from your brain if you know what you are going to listen to. That preconception will have been sunconciously placed there by marketing people, reviewers & peers.

I'm sure you genuinely believe that you can hear a difference between the PM6005 and your own amp, question is could you tell mystery amp A from mystery amp B when you have no idea whether they cost £200 or £2000? It seems that not many people can.

I remember in 1995 VAG invited 10 car enthusiasts to a pre-launch viewing of their new Audi saloon (which had its indentity hidden) they were asked to mark it on its build quality, equipment, styling and if they would buy it. The same people were then asked to to do the same with the new Skoda Octavia. The Audi was consistently marked 2-3 points above the Skoda in every category. The funny part was that the Audi A4 was really the Octavia and vice versa. The VAG marketing people did a very efficient of hushing this up as they make far more money from the Audi brand.

 

How can you explain the oposite then when you listen do equipment that is better quality and all the reviews are positive etc only to be dissapointed when hearing them.

I agree that untrained ears its hard to tell dufference if you do not know what to listen for in quick demo room.

But once you live with equipment over longer period the differences are easier to spot once you go back to cheap crap

 

[Blacksabbath25]

My ears are my blind test and I believe you get what you pay for everyone has there own ideas on what they think is good and I can honestly say I can tell the difference between a marantz pm6005 sound and what I have now you get quality and a quality sound to go with it

The problem is that your ears will be sent a preconception from your brain if you know what you are going to listen to. That preconception will have been sunconciously placed there by marketing people, reviewers & peers.

I'm sure you genuinely believe that you can hear a difference between the PM6005 and your own amp, question is could you tell mystery amp A from mystery amp B when you have no idea whether they cost £200 or £2000? It seems that not many people can.

I remember in 1995 VAG invited 10 car enthusiasts to a pre-launch viewing of their new Audi saloon (which had its indentity hidden) they were asked to mark it on its build quality, equipment, styling and if they would buy it. The same people were then asked to to do the same with the new Skoda Octavia. The Audi was consistently marked 2-3 points above the Skoda in every category. The funny part was that the Audi A4 was really the Octavia and vice versa. The VAG marketing people did a very efficient of hushing this up as they make far more money from the Audi brand.

How can you explain the oposite then when you listen do equipment that is better quality and all the reviews are positive etc only to be dissapointed when hearing them.

I agree that untrained ears its hard to tell dufference if you do not know what to listen for in quick demo room.

But once you live with equipment over longer period the differences are easier to spot once you go back to cheap crap

I am sorry but you can not go by reviews as they are complete rubbish and a wast of time take the Yamaha S3000 and the matching cdplayer £7000 wouth of Hifi what Hifi reviewed it and give it a rubbish review and what I have is the model under Yamaha flagship amp and I will tell you that what I have is the best sounding amp and cdplayer I have ever owned it's so underrated it's unreal I have owned a marantz pm6005, marantz pm8005, abrahamsen 2up you can tell a difference between each one of this amps in there quality of sound and what they are not good at . You get the right combination of Hifi components and then you will understand why people spend big money on quality if you want seriously good quality in sound and build then you will have to pay for that because out of all the amps I've owned none of them sound as good as my Yamaha and every cd I put on I hear stuff I have never heard before that's what your paying for that extra detail in sound and build your ears are your best weapon not reviews

 

[Native_bon]

On very rare occasions do I like the sound of heavy marketed & promotion of a product with gun blazing reviews. There is no doubt snobbery goes on as far as hifi is concerned. Further more, there is no doubt many associate more expensive with better sound, whatever that is. Getting close to the original sound is not what people are looking for?... cause systems do, getting close to the original sound in different ways. People are actually looking for their own listening ways to get close to the original sound, if that makes sense.

The point am making here is that some will listen to a presentation of a much cheaper system & may prefer it to an expensive alternative. The laws of diminishing returns sets in really quickly, & even buying more expensive does not always guarantee better sound. May only give you a different type of presentation of the music. From experience it all boils dwn to the knowledge of the listener. The more you know about systems & setup & matching the more you will begin to realize that more expensive would present & communicate the music better to you, but first you have to separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

[spiny norman]

I am sorry but you can not go by reviews as they are complete rubbish and a wast of time take the Yamaha S3000 and the matching cdplayer £7000 wouth of Hifi what Hifi reviewed it and give it a rubbish review and what I have is the model under Yamaha flagship amp and I will tell you that what I have is the best sounding amp and cdplayer I have ever owned it's so underrated it's unreal I have owned a marantz pm6005, marantz pm8005, abrahamsen 2up you can tell a difference between each one of this amps in there quality of sound and what they are not good at .

That may just be the forum sentence record, but hang on, he's going for another attempt

You get the right combination of Hifi components and then you will understand why people spend big money on quality if you want seriously good quality in sound and build then you will have to pay for that because out of all the amps I've owned none of them sound as good as my Yamaha and every cd I put on I hear stuff I have never heard before that's what your paying for that extra detail in sound and build your ears are your best weapon not reviews

And he falls short this time, so the record still stands! ;-)

 

[Infiniteloop]

I am sorry but you can not go by reviews as they are complete rubbish and a wast of time take the Yamaha S3000 and the matching cdplayer £7000 wouth of Hifi what Hifi reviewed it and give it a rubbish review and what I have is the model under Yamaha flagship amp and I will tell you that what I have is the best sounding amp and cdplayer I have ever owned it's so underrated it's unreal I have owned a marantz pm6005, marantz pm8005, abrahamsen 2up you can tell a difference between each one of this amps in there quality of sound and what they are not good at .

That may just be the forum sentence record, but hang on, he's going for another attempt

You get the right combination of Hifi components and then you will understand why people spend big money on quality if you want seriously good quality in sound and build then you will have to pay for that because out of all the amps I've owned none of them sound as good as my Yamaha and every cd I put on I hear stuff I have never heard before that's what your paying for that extra detail in sound and build your ears are your best weapon not reviews

And he falls short this time, so the record still stands! ;-)

Yeah, but maybe he's not finished yet. - There's no full stop!*biggrin*

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I am sorry but you can not go by reviews as they are complete rubbish and a wast of time take the Yamaha S3000 and the matching cdplayer £7000 wouth of Hifi what Hifi reviewed it and give it a rubbish review and what I have is the model under Yamaha flagship amp and I will tell you that what I have is the best sounding amp and cdplayer I have ever owned it's so underrated it's unreal I have owned a marantz pm6005, marantz pm8005, abrahamsen 2up you can tell a difference between each one of this amps in there quality of sound and what they are not good at .

That may just be the forum sentence record, but hang on, he's going for another attempt

You get the right combination of Hifi components and then you will understand why people spend big money on quality if you want seriously good quality in sound and build then you will have to pay for that because out of all the amps I've owned none of them sound as good as my Yamaha and every cd I put on I hear stuff I have never heard before that's what your paying for that extra detail in sound and build your ears are your best weapon not reviews

And he falls short this time, so the record still stands! ;-)

Yeah, but maybe he's not finished yet. - There's no full stop!*biggrin*

.........................?.....................*smile*

 

[Native_bon]

I am sorry but you can not go by reviews as they are complete rubbish and a wast of time take the Yamaha S3000 and the matching cdplayer £7000 wouth of Hifi what Hifi reviewed it and give it a rubbish review and what I have is the model under Yamaha flagship amp and I will tell you that what I have is the best sounding amp and cdplayer I have ever owned it's so underrated it's unreal I have owned a marantz pm6005, marantz pm8005, abrahamsen 2up you can tell a difference between each one of this amps in there quality of sound and what they are not good at .

That may just be the forum sentence record, but hang on, he's going for another attempt

You get the right combination of Hifi components and then you will understand why people spend big money on quality if you want seriously good quality in sound and build then you will have to pay for that because out of all the amps I've owned none of them sound as good as my Yamaha and every cd I put on I hear stuff I have never heard before that's what your paying for that extra detail in sound and build your ears are your best weapon not reviews

And he falls short this time, so the record still stands! ;-)

Yeah, but maybe he's not finished yet. - There's no full stop!*biggrin*

.........................?.....................*smile*

I understood all what you said even knowing well you did it on purpose. *biggrin* They really can't help it. I wonder what you guys will say around youths these days that use the word (like), like a noun in every 9 out 10 words.. *wacko*

 

[Native_bon]

It's amazing to see Lots of high end systems are connected with oppo 105 . There are quite a few cd players (simaudio d750, Metronome Le Player, Accuphase dp-600 and more) in The same level to combine to high and system. That's players are excellent & stunning. My conclusion... It is also possible to create Excellent system and integrate between high and (speakers, amplifier & premium product in this case oppo105 Of course dependent which sound I'm searching.

Agree 100% there. One of those products that gives excellent value for money. Adding to the fact that its a Blu-ray player is just amazing.

 

[music 24]

It's amazing to see Lots of high end systems are connected with oppo 105 .
There are quite a few cd players (simaudio d750, Metronome Le Player, Accuphase dp-600 and more) in The same level to combine to high and system.
That's players are excellent & stunning.
My conclusion...
It is also possible to create Excellent system and integrate
between high and (speakers, amplifier) & premium product in this case oppo105
Of course dependent which sound I'm searching.