Newby skeptic totally converted

burbster

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Hi,

I just wanted to share my recent experience of buying my first HiFi system. Like most people I guess, over the last decade or so I have been weaned off 'real' music and replaced it with streaming and multiroom systems. There is no denying the convenience but I had become curious over the ressurgence of vinyl and also the introduction of hi res audio. I was skeptical of any benefit but nonetheless my curiosity got the better of me and I booked an appointment at my local audio store, I was thinking a fairly entry level system would suffice. After all, I genuinely belevied that few people could really tell any difference, especially not me! I thought I would try out a few systems, they would all sound the same and I would walk out with a cheap turntable set up. (after all its cool to have vinyl again)

Well, to cut a long story short, I quickly decided on the speakers and amp I liked. I opted for a pair of B&W 683 S2 with a Rega Elex R amp. But its the next bit I want to focus on because it honestly astounded me. We started our session with a Naim streamer using a Rega DAC R to do the conversion. We we using non compressed 44/16 ripped from a CD. The sound was very very good. We used the Naim as it was £2k bit of kit we figured that this would not be the limting factor in the setup, as I would use my own Mac for this dut back home. We then hooked up a Rega RP6 turntable, still uing the phono stage of the Elex. I was imeditaley taken aback and how it was better than the DAC set up, it was so much more musical, difficult to describe but more real, I had a big smile on my face. But, just before I went we hooked up the Rega Saturn R, we put in the original CD of the rip we had previously listened to on the Dac R, bear in mind they should have been bit for bit identical.

This is what I cannot beleive, OMG, what a machine!!! I simply cannot understand how this thing can pull out so much more detail. I mean forget all the subjective stuff that I read, you could actually hear so much more detail in the same track. The finger brushing the string of the guitar, the singer taking a breath, its all there. How is this even possible? The REGA DacR is no slouch, its a £800 machine, its all supposed to be just 1s and 0s, how can there be so much of a difference? I was completely blown away by the sound, I never knew CDs could be this good. I even have to say that it was significantly better than the turntable. Needles to say I bought it.

Has anyone else tried out the Saturn? What did you think?
 

CnoEvil

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Congratulations, you have now been bitten by the hifi bug.

Next comes the upgraditus (Stage 2 of the bug).

Enjoy your new toy and when you get "the itch", we'll be here to help you spend more money.
 

thewinelake.

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OP seems to suggest that he ended up buying quite a lot!

This is fascinating, and seems to echo the review. But surely the remarkable performance can only be in either the transport or the DAC. One must guess that it's the DAC? But this is testable, right?!

You could compare Saturn R to (say) Cambridge Audio CD transport using the Saturn R DAC.

And (referring to the review) what is digital out from a DAC?!
 

BigH

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I thought the Saturn R had the same or very similar DAC to the Rega DAC?

I tried a Rega Saturn not R and found it ok but hardly any difference than my Marantz 63SE, a touch smoother and less harsh but its very subtle. Not finding the difference in detail. Maybe The Saturn R is much better?

How was the cd rip done, it should sound the same as the cd?
 

rainsoothe

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Al ears said:
rainsoothe said:
Hi. 1. Did you end up buying anything? And 2. - why would anyone put a Naim Streamer through a Rega Dac?!!

Curious one that does the Naim ND5XS not include a DAC, is it just an interface?

Na, all of them have DAC's, and much better then the Rega Dac (which they should, given the cost) - but prolly the dealer just wanted to get him to buy Rega (otherwise, why would he use the Naim streamer into a Rega amp as well) :)
 

Frank Harvey

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Sometimes for demos it's just easy to pop on a streamer as a source (if there's plenty of choice on the HDD), and Naim's interface makes that easy for people to see and use. If the OP was looking at an all Rega system, the Rega DAC could be demonstrated quite easily by using the Naim streamer digitally into the rDAC. I use Naim streamers frequently as digital sources for demos.
 

ID.

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burbster said:
its all supposed to be just 1s and 0s, how can there be so much of a difference? I was completely blown away by the sound, I never knew CDs could be this good.

CD and CD quality rips can sound fantastic. As to how there can be so much of a difference, that's where it all gets contentious and potentially very boring, with double blind testing and volume matching to see whether there really is such a big audible difference. Maybe throw in some actual measurements just to really ramp up the fun factor :p
 

jonathanRD

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FWIW at this years Bristol Show I was in the Rega room and sought their views on adding the Rega DacR to my Apollo cdp. I wanted to get a dac for other purposes but I was also interested in any perceived improvements to the sound by feeding the Apollo into the DacR.

The answer was unequivocal - replace the Apollo with the Saturn R. They said that whilst there would be some improvement adding the DacR, I would notice a much bigger improvement with the SaturnR. I've not tried it yet, but may do soon once I narrow down my search for a new amp.
 

BigH

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spiny norman said:
jonathanRD said:
The answer was unequivocal - replace the Apollo with the Saturn R.

£1598 plays £598: figures why such advice would be beneficial, but to whom?

Yes I would be wary of their advice, I suspect expensive CD players are hard to shift these days, maybe they were told to push the Saturn R? I have read some negative comments from users on the Saturn R, some saying its not so musical as the previous Rega cd players, some prefer the Apollo, its something you should try, I would be wary of advice from sellers.
 

jonathanRD

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spiny norman said:
jonathanRD said:
The answer was unequivocal - replace the Apollo with the Saturn R.

£1598 plays £598: figures why such advice would be beneficial, but to whom?

Yes I agree, and that was my first thought on hearing their 'advice', I think the dac is the same in both units too. It was just the immediately unequivocal way the reply was made that surprised me. It could have been the reply of a smart salesman, but my gut feeling was that there was some integrity in the way it was delivered.
 

jonathanRD

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BigH said:
spiny norman said:
jonathanRD said:
The answer was unequivocal - replace the Apollo with the Saturn R.

£1598 plays £598: figures why such advice would be beneficial, but to whom?

Yes I would be wary of their advice, I suspect expensive CD players are hard to shift these days, maybe they were told to push the Saturn R? I have read some negative comments from users on the Saturn R, some saying its not so musical as the previous Rega cd players, some prefer the Apollo, its something you should try, I would be wary of advice from sellers.

If the Elex-R or Elicit-R ends up being at the top of my amp list I will arrange a home demo of both the Dac-R with my Apollo and the Saturn-R to determine if I can hear any significant differences.
 

burbster

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Thanks for your comments. Just to clarify, yes I did buy The 683s, the Elex R and the Saturn R. Also we did simply use the Naim as a source/streamer so I could test the Rega Dac. With hindsight and considering how much I did end up spending I ought to have trialled the Niam's DAC straight to the amp, but at circa £2.5K it was a little to rich for me, especially considering my plan is to use my mac mini as the streaming source so most of its functionality I did not need.

I will repeat myself again though, I could not beleive the difference between the DACR and SaturnR from what would have been identical bit for bit sources. The overwhelming majority of manufacturers will use an off the shelf DAC chip in their kit so it just amazes me how one DAC can pull off so much more detail than another. Logic says it cant be the transport in the SaturnR, however good that may be, as the Naim server would have been giving the Rega DacR a bit perfect copy of a perfect CD as error detection was done when ripping.(Is it possible the rips were from damaged CDs and left out info????)
 

Dom

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So pleased for you, finding a diamond in the rough.

Scratched CD's would lead to drop out's. I suppose a scratched enough CD would give your player more work. It would in all seriousness be an inaudible difference.
 

BigH

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burbster said:
Thanks for your comments. Just to clarify, yes I did buy The 683s, the Elex R and the Saturn R. Also we did simply use the Naim as a source/streamer so I could test the Rega Dac. With hindsight and considering how much I did end up spending I ought to have trialled the Niam's DAC straight to the amp, but at circa £2.5K it was a little to rich for me, especially considering my plan is to use my mac mini as the streaming source so most of its functionality I did not need.

I will repeat myself again though, I could not beleive the difference between the DACR and SaturnR from what would have been identical bit for bit sources. The overwhelming majority of manufacturers will use an off the shelf DAC chip in their kit so it just amazes me how one DAC can pull off so much more detail than another. Logic says it cant be the transport in the SaturnR, however good that may be, as the Naim server would have been giving the Rega DacR a bit perfect copy of a perfect CD as error detection was done when ripping.(Is it possible the rips were from damaged CDs and left out info????)

Yes its possible that the rip could be less than perfect but its fairly unlikely, I have never experienced it. It sounds as though something was a miss with the set up. Its a pity it was not streamed though the Saturn R that maybe have given a different result. Also you played the vinyl in between that may have caused a difference to your hearing rather than playing the digital next to each other. Volumes are also important, maybe the volume after the turntable was higher than before?

What was the cd you heard?
 

thewinelake.

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I presume you've read the articles that try to explain what's special about the Saturn R DAC - eg. that the power supply to the DAC has been given particular attention. Also the improvement in low jitter (precision of timing signals, I suppose). Power often seems to be key to great music delivery.
 

radiorog

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burbster said:
Hi,

I just wanted to share my recent experience of buying my first HiFi system. Like most people I guess, over the last decade or so I have been weaned off 'real' music and replaced it with streaming and multiroom systems. There is no denying the convenience but I had become curious over the ressurgence of vinyl and also the introduction of hi res audio. I was skeptical of any benefit but nonetheless my curiosity got the better of me and I booked an appointment at my local audio store, I was thinking a fairly entry level system would suffice. After all, I genuinely belevied that few people could really tell any difference, especially not me! I thought I would try out a few systems, they would all sound the same and I would walk out with a cheap turntable set up. (after all its cool to have vinyl again)

Well, to cut a long story short, I quickly decided on the speakers and amp I liked. I opted for a pair of B&W 683 S2 with a Rega Elex R amp. But its the next bit I want to focus on because it honestly astounded me. We started our session with a Naim streamer using a Rega DAC R to do the conversion. We we using non compressed 44/16 ripped from a CD. The sound was very very good. We used the Naim as it was £2k bit of kit we figured that this would not be the limting factor in the setup, as I would use my own Mac for this dut back home. We then hooked up a Rega RP6 turntable, still uing the phono stage of the Elex. I was imeditaley taken aback and how it was better than the DAC set up, it was so much more musical, difficult to describe but more real, I had a big smile on my face. But, just before I went we hooked up the Rega Saturn R, we put in the original CD of the rip we had previously listened to on the Dac R, bear in mind they should have been bit for bit identical.

This is what I cannot beleive, OMG, what a machine!!! I simply cannot understand how this thing can pull out so much more detail. I mean forget all the subjective stuff that I read, you could actually hear so much more detail in the same track. The finger brushing the string of the guitar, the singer taking a breath, its all there. How is this even possible? The REGA DacR is no slouch, its a £800 machine, its all supposed to be just 1s and 0s, how can there be so much of a difference? I was completely blown away by the sound, I never knew CDs could be this good. I even have to say that it was significantly better than the turntable. Needles to say I bought it.

Has anyone else tried out the Saturn? What did you think?

Congrats! Sound like a blinder of a system to me. Not heard the Saturn, but you make me want one. CDs rock!
 

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