newbie seeks help - general + specific

[warp232]

I have been a big music fan since at least 25 years but i never invested in decent equipment. i have a collection of probably 2400 cd's and about 100 records. my taste ranges from dave brubeck to leftfield, from gg allin to slayer, from ennio morricone to the smiths, from orbital to **** dale, from sonny rollins to suicide commando etc.

I listen to music mainly via ipod, in my car, computer and mini chain (cheapo stuff for like 300 euro's). since i will be moving to a bigger place i will finally have the space for a new hi-fi installation. i am not an experienced audiophile whatsoever

I start from zero except for the reciever, i just got myself the yamaha r-s500. i want to buy speakers, a cd-player and a record player. since i live in belgium i would like to buy everything online if possible. my remaining budget is about 1200 euro's max !

my questions:

- how should i spend my budget, how many % of the budget on each component? is a good reciever more important than a good pair of speakers?

- for the cd-player i have three options for the moment, based on reviews, the fact that i just the got the yamaha reciever and my budget (400 euro's max for the cd-player) my options for the moment are the yamaha cd-s300 (about 250 euro's), cd-n500 (about 360 euro's) or the marantz cd 6005 (about 380 euro's) I read some raving reviews about the marantz cd6005 but does it make sense to buy it to pair it with my yamaha r-s500? should the cheaper cd-s300 be enough?

- can anyone recommend some speakers in the budget range (max 500 euro's for the pair) are the yamaha Ns-F150 any good? (about 380 for the pair)

- can someone recommend a record player for under 400 euro's?

- can someone recommend cables? i generally don't believe in the ultra expensive gold plated stuff like with hdmi monster cables etc. have different blu-ray players and don't see the difference between the more expensive and cheaper cables.

a lot of questions and to be honest i am overwhelmed by all the options and possibilities. thank you in advance for the help

 

[warp232]

Been reading the forum and looking at the monitor bx 2 for speakers

not sure about the picky part in the review :S

 

[warp232]

since no one is able or willing to help the moderators can lock this topic. thank you and goodbye

 

[floyd droid]

Give some thought about maybe changing your user name. How about 'Patience , I aint got any '.

Thank you and good riddance .

 

[DocG]

Hi Warp,

I'm so sorry you mentioned you live in Belgium. And I hope your attitude is not associated with our country by the fellow forumites.

You got no reply to a long, extremely broad and at the same time very specific question. Well, not within a couple of hours (since most people sleep at night). And so you ask to lock your thread? Threads are locked if things get out of hand (arguments, insults, swearing, ...). Not if you ask for it because you get no instant gratification.

And why do you have to buy online because you live in Belgium? There are several brands with no Belgian dealer, but you'd be amazed what is available for demo here. So whereabouts in Belgium do you live?

I'm sure you could get some more replies if you give people the time. Unless no one bothers anymore, because you were so rude.

Oh, and welcome to the forum, btw!

:cheers:

 

[iJoe]

Hi Warp, your just the sort of person people like to help on this forum - a real music fan - but have some patience as it's the morning and we're all at work (procastinating). The forum wakes up more at the weekend.

 

[warp232]

sorry for my impatience but , guess i was getting the idea that some people might just ignore the topic due to the fact that my questions might be totally ridiculous for experienced audiophiles.

my apologies if i offended someone (especially my fellow belgians lol)

 

[DocG]

OK, some questions to help you decide what you need:

How big is the space you need to fill with music?

Do you play your music loud, or are you limited by housemates or neighbours?

Do you have a preference for standmounters or floorstanders?Lots of bass or less but better controled? How far into the room can you place your speakers (many ported speakers need quite some room to breathe to work their best)?

Do you need all of it (I mean the CDP and the TT) right away, or could you postpone e.g. your TT until funds allow? This way you could e.g. spend a little more on your speakers and/or the CDP, so you won't feel the need to upgrade right away...

I would not spend more than necessary on cables. Plain OFC copper cable of decent gauge should do (1.5 mm² as a minimum). With many amps and speakers, you can use the bare wire to connect (so you don't need to terminate them with spades or banana plugs).

IMO you should spend most on amp and speakers, and the bare minimum on cables. A decent CD player comes definitely cheaper than a decent turntable. That's why I would postpone the TT until funds allow better quality; alternatively get a good budget device (like a Project Elemental or Essential II). For everything, but especially for a turntable: find yourself a good dealer! (once again: where in Belgium do you live?)

OK, answer these questions, and we'll take it from there. I'm sure, the more specific you get, the more useful replies you'll receive!

PS: do you plan to use the FM-tuner in your amp? If so, a decent aerial is money well spent!

 

[DocG]

sorry for my impatience but , guess i was getting the idea that some people might just ignore the topic due to the fact that my questions might be totally ridiculous for experienced audiophiles.

my apologies if i offended someone (especially my fellow belgians lol)

Well, at least you got your thread running now!

 

[CarlDW]

The Yamaha CD-S300 will be fine as your CD player and match visually with your amp. Speaker wise I would listen to the Q Acoustic 2020i's or Dali Zensor 1 (also try the Zensor 3 if your budget reaches).

Not up to speed on turntables I'm afraid.

 

[Leeps]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but it might have been better to have made your post before purchasing one of the most important components of your proposed system.

Your purchase of the Yammy amp somewhat limits the remaining decisions.

Being such an eclectic music fan, I would have looked at the Yamaha RN-500 instead because it includes Spotify Connect (in the UK at least - less sure about Belgium, although you could stream from Airplay if you're all Appled up). Having Spotify built-in is very handy if you want to discover new music before purchasing (assuming you want to continue playing your CD's rather than ripping them).

If you're content with your current amp though, I'd make the best of it with the best speakers you can afford that match well tonally.

 

[slice]

Regarding speaker cable - I suggest van damme blue, sold via amazon. Choose the grading according to the length you need. If you look up "speaker wire" in wikipedia there is a table which will help you do this.

 

[slice]

ps if you want bannana plugs, then fisual easy fix are good value and work well. Buy via amazon or audiovisual online.

 

[Esra]

As your amp which you have already buyed is a Yamaha and on the neutral or brighter side I wouldn´t go with something like the Dali Zensors 1 or Monitor Audio.You can get for about 500 Euro quid a pair of boston acoustics A360 which will provide a good and not overerly bright sound and relaxed character which would fit imo better to a yamaha than the other speakers mentioned above,which could be too much.They also will fill the room better and reach deeper.

If they are too big or you have a smallish room where bass can too much i would give the B&W 686 S2 a try.

 

[warp232]

thank you all for the help, have to agree with Leeps that i should have asked some questions before getting the yamaha amp (impatience perhaps ) i decided to go with that model after reading some very good reviews about the yamaha a-s500 (hoping that the quality of the a-s500 and r-s500 is about the same )

as for the size of the room : the part where i would be sitting to listen to music is probaly something like 4 on 4m, the room is bigger but not sure if that has an impact. i would say that i play it on average loudness, i try to respect my neighbours

not sure if i will use the fm-tuner, not a big radio listener. i have 100+ gigabytes of mp3's but not a big fan of internet radio, spotify etc. so not sure if i should get a cd-player or tuner that has network capability. untill now i only listen to my mp3's on my pc / ipod / ipad / cellphone. would like to get a cd-player that can be connected to my ipod

i was thinking about bookshelf speakers so i can put them next to my cdplayer and amp on something like this http://www.ikea.com/be/nl/catalog/products/S99018708/ distance from the back of the speaker to the wall could be like 80 cm's i guess.

like dogG mentioned i should probably wait to get a turntable. i managed to live without one for years and i have only a small colletion of records compared to my cd collection. some friends already mentioned the Project Elemental or Essential II. so in time i might opt for one of those

to answer the question about belgium: i live in kortrijk but can travel to brugge, gent, brussels etc if it's worth the trip.

thank you all for your help so far and sorry once again for my impatience.

 

[lindsayt]

I will give my advice based on what I would do if I were in your position and had your budget.

- how should i spend my budget, how many % of the budget on each component? is a good reciever more important than a good pair of speakers?

I would never set any % guidelines. It all depends on what you can buy for what prices.

- for the cd-player i have three options for the moment, based on reviews, the fact that i just the got the yamaha reciever and my budget (400 euro's max for the cd-player) my options for the moment are the yamaha cd-s300 (about 250 euro's), cd-n500 (about 360 euro's) or the marantz cd 6005 (about 380 euro's) I read some raving reviews about the marantz cd6005 but does it make sense to buy it to pair it with my yamaha r-s500? should the cheaper cd-s300 be enough?

I wouldn't buy any of these CD players at retail price. Not when you can buy CD players that would have been at higher price brackets when new for under 100 euros. Another alternative is to buy a new or 2nd hand DAC for 50 euros and to stream from whatever PC or networked storage device you've got available or can get without spending a lot of money.

- can anyone recommend some speakers in the budget range (max 500 euro's for the pair) are the yamaha Ns-F150 any good? (about 380 for the pair)

Speakers are an incredibly personal thing. They are also the sort of thing that I'd be looking out for the best deal to come along first on either some large sealed box speakers, or horn hybrids or electrostatics for this sort of budget. Something that would have been top of the range when new. I can chuck out a few names if you wish?

- can someone recommend a record player for under 400 euro's?

Lenco idlers are great for less than 100 euros if you're happy to fiddle with some DIY. For more of a fit and forget record player I'd go for a Japanese direct drive such as the Technics 1210, Pioneer PL71, Sony PSX 6750, Kenwood KD 990 or some variation on this theme. Whatever I saw a good deal on first. Make sure it's fully working before handing over the cash.

- can someone recommend cables? i generally don't believe in the ultra expensive gold plated stuff like with hdmi monster cables etc. have different blu-ray players and don't see the difference between the more expensive and cheaper cables.

For interconnects: 4 euro gold plated ones available from ebay would be a good enough start. For speaker cable: 762 strand is decently thick and about 3 euros per stereo metre. You can then experiment with more expensive cables from there if you wish.

With you living in Belgium, check out German, Belgian, Netherlands and French ebays for an idea of what's available at what prices and google anything that looks interesting for more information.

 

[Leeps]

thank you all for the help, have to agree with Leeps that i should have asked some questions before getting the yamaha amp (impatience perhaps ) i decided to go with that model after reading some very good reviews about the yamaha a-s500 (hoping that the quality of the a-s500 and r-s500 is about the same )

as for the size of the room : the part where i would be sitting to listen to music is probaly something like 4 on 4m, the room is bigger but not sure if that has an impact. i would say that i play it on average loudness, i try to respect my neighbours

not sure if i will use the fm-tuner, not a big radio listener. i have 100+ gigabytes of mp3's but not a big fan of internet radio, spotify etc. so not sure if i should get a cd-player or tuner that has network capability. untill now i only listen to my mp3's on my pc / ipod / ipad / cellphone. would like to get a cd-player that can be connected to my ipod

i was thinking about bookshelf speakers so i can put them next to my cdplayer and amp on something like this http://www.ikea.com/be/nl/catalog/products/S99018708/ distance from the back of the speaker to the wall could be like 80 cm's i guess.

like dogG mentioned i should probably wait to get a turntable. i managed to live without one for years and i have only a small colletion of records compared to my cd collection. some friends already mentioned the Project Elemental or Essential II. so in time i might opt for one of those

to answer the question about belgium: i live in kortrijk but can travel to brugge, gent, brussels etc if it's worth the trip.

thank you all for your help so far and sorry once again for my impatience.

Just a quick thought about your intended speaker placement. It's likely that you'd get a better controlled and directed sound on dedicated speaker stands, but if you have no choice (like I didn't when siting my centre speaker), then you might want to look at buying some Auralex MoPads. They come in an assortment of foam wedges that help isolate the speaker from the rack, and they offer a variety of angles so you can alter the angle of the speaker that'll help direct the tweeters towards your ears rather than your knees. Quite helpful seeing that our ears aren't located there.

The wedges also minimise any 'ringing' in the rack itself. You can buy isolation cones, but they don't have the flexibility of positioning that the MoPads do. Dedicated stands would be better still though.

 

[DocG]

I'm more or less (but not completely) with lindsayt here. IMO you can't go wrong with buying cables online. And if you do a bit of internet research, €100 could buy you a very fine second hand CDP indeed.

Which would leave you with €1000 to spend on the speakers (yes, that is how I would split your budget, to get most bang for the buck! But if you find your kind of speaker for less, that is perfectly fine too. Obviously). Here I would definitely recommend you to see a couple of trustworthy dealers, where you can make an appointment, explain what you need and demo with your own amplifier, and if possible with the speakers positioned somewhat like they will be in your room. And ask for a home demo if necessary.

I can recommend Wide Screen Audio in Gent. Henk has Rega, Quad and Guru speakers, that might suit you. He will probably have ATC in the near future too.

Also worth a visit is Mimesis Audio in Lovendegem, where you find Focal (705,706 or maybe even the Aria 906) and Tannoy (the DC 4 is worth a look, or the DC6).

There are many more dealers around, but these two give a very good service IME.

EDIT: oh, and if you haven't bought the rack yet, you could maybe look for something higher, to bring the tweeters more or less at ear height. Unless you can tilt the speakers, as leeps suggests.

 

[warp232]

thank you all once again for all the help.

in a way a new (confusing) world has opened for me lol

it's a bit weird i guess that for years i spent thousands of euro's on cd's and only so little on equipment. it's the same with my movie collection (cost me more than a decent car) and my yamaha home cinema kit that is 13 years old and cost me about 800 euro's. i am more of a "software" than "hardware" kind of person.

i will try to focus my attention on finding decent speakers next. but doesn't the weakest link principle apply? doesn't the yamaha amp destroy the "extra pleasure" i might get from more expensive speakers? this weekend i will at first try to get a demo at a shop called staelens in kortrijk, they are pretty expensive i guess at least, certainly compared to a lot of other shops, they know what they are selling and speaking about.

will certainly remember the suggestions about the ear height !

 

[DocG]

it's a bit weird i guess that for years i spent thousands of euro's on cd's and only so little on equipment. it's the same with my movie collection (cost me more than a decent car) and my yamaha home cinema kit that is 13 years old and cost me about 800 euro's. i am more of a "software" than "hardware" kind of person.

That's not weird, it's admirable! It's all about the music after all!

i will try to focus my attention on finding decent speakers next. but doesn't the weakest link principle apply? doesn't the yamaha amp destroy the "extra pleasure" i might get from more expensive speakers?

Weakest link: yes. Cheapest link: no.

What I mean is: for cables and IMO for a CDP too, the quality is mostly pretty good, even on a tight budget (that is different for turntables). And to be frank with you: yes, the amp might hold back your new speakers from reaching their true potential (speaking in general; I have no personal experience with your amp), but even then, good speakers will sound better than lesser speakers! The thing is: the speakers should work well with your amp, and with your room and their position in the room.

this weekend i will at first try to get a demo at a shop called staelens in kortrijk, they are pretty expensive i guess at least, certainly compared to a lot of other shops, they know what they are selling and speaking about.

Don't get me wrong. Not saying you must splash €1000 on your speakers! What I'm saying is: if you want to spend €1200 on CDP + speakers + cables, use the larger part on the speakers. And don't get me wrong (bis): 'more expensive' is not a synonym for 'better'. And if you feel like spending less, of course there are good options for less money too (my parents recently bought a pair of ex-demo Tannoy V1s for €150 and they are very happy with them!). The important thing is - once again - that the speakers match the amp and the room acoustics.

And finally, I'm very glad you start demoing soon! That's how you should do it! Now, don't let impatience spoil it...

 

[KidKomet]

For what it's worth, I have the Yamaha CD-N500 and it's a fantastic player. That said, I got it for about 70% off due to it being ex-dem. At full price, there are more capable players. As previously mentioned. The Q Acoustics 2020i's should be on your shortlist of speakers. Also consider second hand if it's not something that bothers you.

 

[warp232]

Not sure where i will be able to test them but for speakers i am for the moment mostly thinking about the boston acoustics a360 and the q acoustics 2020i

choices

wondering what kind of music the people that reacted listen to?

 

[DocG]

wondering what kind of music the people that reacted listen to?

My menu is quite eclectic (chamber music, chanson, folk, jazz, country, pop and rock), but nothing heavier than Living Colour or Pixies :rockout:

Or Goose (since you're from Kortijk)