new flat new speakers needed

[BenLaw]

FrankHarveyHiFi: Disconnecting the lower bass driver will definitely upset the balance of the speaker, but right now it's the balance you're not happy with. It'll either work or it won't - 50/50..... It could end up sounding complete rubbish, it might not.

Not convinced by that odds calculation. Just because there are two possible outcomes doesn't mean they are equally likely. Sounds like a recipe for ruining a speaker to me

 

[Frank Harvey]

Nothing can be ruined, I'm merely suggesting a possibility. Just because that suggesting is away from the norm, doesn't mean it won't work. But then again, I haven't said it will work.

I'll stick to the 50/50 - it'll either sound fine to the OP or it won't.

 

[BenLaw]

FrankHarveyHiFi:Nothing can be ruined

FrankHarveyHiFI:I would only recommend toying with disconnecting the bass driver if you've tinkered about with speakers before...... You'll need to make sure the cables are secure somewhere so that they don't touch each other....maybe put some masking tape round them.

Ruining speakers sound possible, at least

I'm merely suggesting a possibility. Just because that suggesting is away from the norm, doesn't mean it won't work. But then again, I haven't said it will work. I'll stick to the 50/50 - it'll either sound fine to the OP or it won't.

You rather miss my point on the maths. Just because it is 'possible' what makes you say it has an equal chance of working well as not? Rather than 60/40 or 70/30 say?

 

[Frank Harvey]

Nothing will be ruined physically. The OP can try it out for zero squids and either get a result or not. He can then reconnect the driver if it doesn't work out and he's just back to square one.

As for possibilities, the unknown is 50/50. It will either happen or it won't.

There's a 99% chance I'm going to work later (I could be taken ill in the night), but that fact is known. But does that make the chance of me being taken ill 1%? Nope, because it will happen or it won't. 50/50.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Funny how retailers on forums are usually accused of being there to make money and are questioned about any recommendation they make. I make a suggestion for the OP to try that will cost him nothing and I'm still questioned.

 

[BenLaw]

FrankHarveyHiFi: There's a 99% chance I'm going to work later (I could be taken ill in the night), but that fact is known. But does that make the chance of me being taken ill 1%? Nope, because it will happen or it won't. 50/50.

Er, no.

Funny how retailers on forums are usually accused of being there to make money and are questioned about any recommendation they make. I make a suggestion for the OP to try that will cost him nothing and I'm still questioned.

If the OP wants to try that, fair enough. Out of left field for sure. Didn't question your motives on this (indeed I have been knwon to defend retailers giving similar cost-free recommendations)

 

[Frank Harvey]

BenLaw:FrankHarveyHiFi: There's a 99% chance I'm going to work later (I could be taken ill in the night), but that fact is known. But does that make the chance of me being taken ill 1%? Nope, because it will happen or it won't. 50/50.
Er, no.
Er, well we can disagree on that as it doesn't really matter anyway.

BenLaw:(indeed I have been knwon to defend retailers giving similar cost-free recommendations)

I think you mean a specific retailer....

 

[BenLaw]

FrankHarveyHiFi:BenLaw:FrankHarveyHiFi: There's a 99% chance I'm going to work later (I could be taken ill in the night), but that fact is known. But does that make the chance of me being taken ill 1%? Nope, because it will happen or it won't. 50/50. Er, no. Er, well we can disagree on that as it doesn't really matter anyway.

Well, you are wrong - mathematically (if there is a 50% chance of you developing an illness each day, you will be ill more days than you are well (if an illness lasts more than 1 day), and your employer would have sacked you by now). And having thought about it since my last post I realise this is the problem with your advice:

You are suggesting the OP do something which, at the least, may be irreversible (without cost) because of his/her lack of skill / inexperience. It may damage the speaker permanently, for the same reasons. You are representing that there is a 50% chance of this suggestion being a good thing, a 50% chance of it being a bad thing. That's patently wrong. There are only two outcomes (well, also a third, neutral, so no doubt you'd call that 33.3/33.3/33.3.....) but that does not equate to a 50% chance of a successful outcome. The OP has probably not attempted such an operation before, and you yourself admit the manufacturer would advise against this. Most importantly, this is mere speculation on your part; you have no idea of the chances of success, or better put, the risks involved and their chances of materialising. This is not something you say you've tried yourself before. Therefore your speculative advice risks the OP irreparably damaging a good set of speakers, where the chances of a positive outcome may be, for all you know, 10%, or 1%, or 0.1%. Perhaps best avoid wild speculation. And statistics.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Oh dear.

 

[Crocodile]

I wonder if BenLaw gets invited to many parties.

David's suggestion, while undoubtedly left field, is certainly not going to cause damage to the speaker -as long as the OP takes sensible precautions. David has already said that the disconnected terminal should be isolated so it can't come in contact with anything. That only leaves the possibility of physical damage. If the OP lays the speaker sideways on a table while working on it & is careful to support the driver as it's removed, I can see no problems.

Of course if he isn't comfortable doing this then he shouldn't.

Whilst I also disagree with David's work analogy, arguing the point over mathematical probabilities is irrelevant & pointless.

 

[Andrew Everard]

shooter69:
Also a "geeky" clutch of straws may work; more subtle diffusing.

Awww, you spoiled my next step: I was going to suggest clutching at straws if the socks/foam bungs didn't work.

 

[BenLaw]

Crocodile:

I wonder if BenLaw gets invited to many parties.

My point was David may be misleading the OP through his poor understanding of statistics. If you don't get the point or if you disagree with it, fine, but personal insults are unnecessary.

Maybe you were just being snappy

 

[robolowski]

I've put bungs in today at the back of speakers and played Eskmo at just over 9 o'clock.The whole entire room is shaking.Will have to try to disconnect bottom drivers at some point.First i am going to wait for an answer from MA.

I feel comfortable to disconnect them , just thought they might be soldered.

Thanks to every one for advice!

 

[Crossie]

I am a Chartered Mathematician - the odds are not 50/50, its more complicated than that as the results are not equally likely outcomes.

I get invited to parties all the time.

I would not go disconnecting speaker drivers as this may alter the impedence seen by the crossover and hence affect the performance of the other drivers.

 

[BenLaw]

Crossie:

I am a Chartered Mathematician - the odds are not 50/50, its more complicated than that as the results are not equally likely outcomes.

I get invited to parties all the time.

I would not go disconnecting speaker drivers as this may alter the impedence seen by the crossover and hence affect the performance of the other drivers.

And I imagine the manufacturer will say something along these lines.

 

[deanhartley]

Hi, I would not advise disconnecting a bass driver. This will not work very well. The two lower bass drivers are connected in parallel, so disconnecting one will ensure you end up with a driven unit and a passive unit (ABR), but the ABR will then not be optimised and will create and odd response.

Essentially it sound like you have a room acoustic problem, which could be a combination of room dimensions causing a dominant room mode. You will not cure this by swapping them for a different floor-stander. If you cannot treat or re-arrange the room, then the only solution is to get a speaker with significantly less bass output. I would actually recommend swapping your speakers for a book-shelf speaker. If you consider MA, then there is the GS10, a fairly full size stand-mount. You will find better mid and H.F clarity with much less bass energy, although still quite well extended. These are soon to be replaced with the new GX series and the GX100 will be at Bristol. There is also the smaller GX50, which is stupendous for the size. It's a really cracking little monitor and around the price you are looking at. The GX also steps up to using a ribbon tweeter, so you will get very clear, extended H.F with no hint of zing.

Because of the problems you have with your room though, don't buy anything without trying it in your room.

If you really want to try something with you current RS8's quickly without resorting to opening them up, then try this:

Go to Maplin and buy some 10W ceramic resistors with a values of 2R2, 3R9 and 6R8. You can only do this if you are single wiring, not bi-wiring BTW. Place the speaker cables into the top set of terminals, which actually power the tweeter and top mid driver. Place one of the gold bi-wire links between red top and red lower terminal. Remove the gold bi-wire link between the Red top and red lower terminal. Place the resistor between the top red and lower red terminal. This will actually get a little warm (perhaps even hot) when being used. However, this will just give you an idea of the type of bass attenuation you can expect. You can try the 2R2 version first which will give you an attenuation of around 1.5dB. If this is not enough, then try the 3R9 version which will be -3dB. 6R8 will attenuate by around -4.5dB.

I am not completely sure of the results you will get, because it will also cut down the mid-range output as well, but it may also do the trick.

Give it a try and see how you get on. PM me if you have any trouble.

Good luck

 

[jiggyjoe]

I thought the RS8 was a 2.5 way system? That top driver has a lot of excursion for a mid driver.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vXj8TYDNqA

If it is 2.5 way the the op could just single wire to the top terminals only and remove bridge links.

 

[shooter]

jiggyjoe:
I thought the RS8 was a 2.5 way system? That top driver has a lot of excursion for a mid driver.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vXj8TYDNqA

If it is 2.5 way the the op could just single wire to the top terminals only and remove bridge links.

Hope your wrong, (in the nicest way) Dean is the Technical director of Monitor Audio Ltd.

It a flammin' good idea though.

 

[jiggyjoe]

so do I,

Recently I bought his RX6 model and they sound superb for the money.

I just noticed because I auditioned the RX8 as well and the top driver in that model hardly moved at all. True 3 way????

 

[shooter]

jiggyjoe:
True 3 way????

?

 

[robolowski]

deanhartley:
Hi, I would not advise disconnecting a bass driver. This will not work very well. The two lower bass drivers are connected in parallel, so disconnecting one will ensure you end up with a driven unit and a passive unit (ABR), but the ABR will then not be optimised and will create and odd response.

Essentially it sound like you have a room acoustic problem, which could be a combination of room dimensions causing a dominant room mode. You will not cure this by swapping them for a different floor-stander. If you cannot treat or re-arrange the room, then the only solution is to get a speaker with significantly less bass output. I would actually recommend swapping your speakers for a book-shelf speaker. If you consider MA, then there is the GS10, a fairly full size stand-mount. You will find better mid and H.F clarity with much less bass energy, although still quite well extended. These are soon to be replaced with the new GX series and the GX100 will be at Bristol. There is also the smaller GX50, which is stupendous for the size. It's a really cracking little monitor and around the price you are looking at. The GX also steps up to using a ribbon tweeter, so you will get very clear, extended H.F with no hint of zing.

Because of the problems you have with your room though, don't buy anything without trying it in your room.

If you really want to try something with you current RS8's quickly without resorting to opening them up, then try this:

Go to Maplin and buy some 10W ceramic resistors with a values of 2R2, 3R9 and 6R8. You can only do this if you are single wiring, not bi-wiring BTW. Place the speaker cables into the top set of terminals, which actually power the tweeter and top mid driver. Place one of the gold bi-wire links between red top and red lower terminal. Remove the gold bi-wire link between the Red top and red lower terminal. Place the resistor between the top red and lower red terminal. This will actually get a little warm (perhaps even hot) when being used. However, this will just give you an idea of the type of bass attenuation you can expect. You can try the 2R2 version first which will give you an attenuation of around 1.5dB. If this is not enough, then try the 3R9 version which will be -3dB. 6R8 will attenuate by around -4.5dB.

I am not completely sure of the results you will get, because it will also cut down the mid-range output as well, but it may also do the trick.

Give it a try and see how you get on. PM me if you have any trouble.

Good luck

Hi deanhartley

I have tried to find these ceramic resistors on maplin site but couldn't see anything like it.

Anyway i think that you are right about my room acoustic and that floorstanders won't be a good option for me at moment.I love the design of the new GX range, which is what i was looking for and wife will be happy too ))

I am looking forward to demo GX50 at Bristol show.Will i get a chance to buy them there in a good price eventually ?

Cheers

 

[Andrew Everard]

deanhartley,

Thanks for 'outing' your other ID in your now deleted post. I've banned audio15, so he can't vote for Monitor Audio products in Readers Awards nominations, promote MA products in user opinions or comments on news stories, or make disparaging remarks about other manufacturer's products.

 

[Crocodile]

BenLaw:My point was David may be misleading the OP through his poor understanding of statistics. If you don't get the point or if you disagree with it, fine, but personal insults are unnecessary.

Maybe you were just being snappy

Sorry, no personal insult intended. But picking up on a mathematical point wasn't really helping the OP IMO. Precise statistics aside, there really are only two possible outcomes. It sounds better to the OP or it doesn't. Same way that you audition kit. It may sound better in some areas than in others that would require a fancy equation to accurately represent but at the end of the day, you buy or you don't. Two possible outcomes. Or in layman's terms 50:50.

Anyway, the discussion has moved on courtesy of Dean.

OP, the resistors he is suggesting from Maplin are these.

 

[Crossie]

I don't suppose there is much point repeating that in layman's or anybodies terms it is not 50/50. Never has been and never will be 50/50.

It is only because of "fancy equations" and "precise statistics" that any of this wonderful Hi Fi kit works.

 

[Crocodile]

Crossie:
I don't suppose there is much point repeating that in layman's or anybodies terms it is not 50/50. Never has been and never will be 50/50.

It is only because of "fancy equations" and "precise statistics" that any of this wonderful Hi Fi kit works.
No. Semantics that have no bearing whatsoever to OP's request for assistance are pointless.