New CD player - please help with the short list!

[Dan Turner]

Hi,

My Hi-Fi currently consists of an Arcam CD93, Arcam A32+P35 (integrated + power amp) and PMC TB2+ speakers. Interconnects between CD and amp and between the amp and power amp are Chord Chorus 2s, and I'm using twin runs of Van Damme 6mm Hi-Fi OFC speaker cable (as recommended by PMC and a huge improvement over the QED silver anniversary bi-wire I was using previously). Atacama and Partington supports.

I am looking to upgrade the CD player, because whilst I am generally very happy, and the sound has a richness that I love, it can sometimes stray into excess warmth. With well recorded, simpler music it's great, but heavier or less well recorded material can end up sound a bit thick and wooly. It kind of ranges from Jose Gonzales (amazing) to Smashing Pumpkins (who put a blanket over my speakers?!)

So I'm looking to take a general step up on the CD front as well as introduce something with crisper timing and greater dynamic 'bite'. My shortlist, based upon reviews and what is available from dealers in my local area is Cyrus CD8SE (possibly with PSX-R), Naim CD5x, Primare CD31 and Musical Fidelity A5.5.

I'm looking for some advice to try to whittle this down (or point me in a different direction). A home trial is a must and for practical reasons I don't want to audition all 4 (preferably just 2 or at most 3). Advice on which to try based on the character of their sound and and which would work best in my system would be greatfully received!

 

[Dan Turner]

I should just mention that having posted a few things on the forum here I never seem to get any replies, so I do apologise if I have unwittingly contravened some point of forum etiquette or posed a particularly dull question! Please forgive/take pity on me! Cheers

 

[JoelSim]

I had a 92 and changed to a 192 and that is a totally different sound, far more bite and snap and a tad more detail. Are you biamping? If not, that is your first port of call.

Your shortlist looks pretty good though and I would be very tempted to hear the Cyrus given all the good press. The Naim may be a bit too far in the upfront direction, but then again it depends on how far you want to go. The MF I haven't heard either, nor the Primare so can't comment.

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[Anonymous]

Not dull at all, I'm sure it's nothing personal. Well if you are looking to inject some dynamics I would look at the Naim and the Cyrus.

 

[Messiah]

Hi Dan,

I must admit that I have not used the CD players you have listed so cannot narrow down your selection but why not try all 4. Surely it will be worth it in the long run??

 

[Dan Turner]

Thanks Joel. I am bi-amping. As much as it pains me to say it, I have consciously decided not to go for another Arcam. First and foremost because I think it's the combination of the arcam CD and amp that is leading to the excess warmth to the sound (although it's very interesting that you say the character has sharpened up these days), and secondly because the 93 is my 2nd Arcam CD player and I have experienced reliability issues with both this and my old 8SE.

 

[Dan Turner]

I have to say that based upon their reputed characters the Cyrus and the Naim were at the top of my shortlist.

 

[JoelSim]

As I said above the Cyrus would be first on my list, even the xtse/dac combo with potential PSX upgrades. Go for it and post your findings on the site.

Shame about the reliability issues. I've had 9 Arcam components and have been lucky.

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[Anonymous]

Go fot the Primare! Great and beautiful machine...

 

[JoelSim]

It needs to be tested in the context of his system. Think Gerrard and Lampard playing for England. Separately they are both great players, together they are less than the sum of their parts.

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[matengawhat]

i think you have to try the cyrus kit at the moment just because of the emphasis what hi fi has placed on it and the upgradeability - also they have said its lost its bright edge which can only be a good thing.

i'm not going to update my mf v8 cdp and dac but next time i walk past a hi-fi shop i'm going to go in and have a play

 

[JoelSim]

I really want to hear the Cyrus after the reviews. Really really.

Having said that, I'm listening to Jack Johnson at the moment and I can't imagine it getting much better than this for detail...if I didn't have eyes then he could be strumming in my fireplace

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[Anonymous]

Hi Dan,

I'd change the speakers to something more open and clear - less 'thick' sounding. in my experience the differences between electronic components is MUCH harder to hear and you may be disappointed. Also remember that a lot of 'flavour of the month' CD players recommended by What Hi-Fi have serious bugs and reliability/useability issues. At least Arcam is a good brand with good solid products and service.

 

[Dan Turner]

OK - so for anyone that's interested, the first round of trials is underway; I've borrowed the Cyrus CD8SE and an Arcam CD37 (I gave in following the good review/award from HFC). My humble opinion is thus:

At the moment it definitely preferring the Arcam. I could not believe the sound coming out of that thing.

Don't get me wrong the Cyrus is a great CD player, good detail, nice bass, it's all there, but it's all rather too polite (I can't believe I'm saying it either) - by comparison the Arcam has this great, powerful, deep, tuneful bass, that just motors the whole sound along, and whilst on immediate impressions the Cyrus sounds more detailed because of it's slightly brighter balance, once you become aclimitised to the Arcam's slightly warmer balance you realise that all the treble detail is there, but what the Arcam does it to carry that increased resolution all the way though the mid-range and bass in a way that the Cyrus just can't seem to do.

The other thing is that the Arcam has more solidity to the sound stage and the whole thing hangs together better when things start to drive hard or get complex.

I've decided to make doubly sure the Cyrus is fully run in by leaving it playing on repeat all day, but for now, I'm just enjoying the Arcam. It really is good. Oh yeah, and Dark Side of the Moon on SACD - incredible.

Quite inconvenient actually, I wanted to like the Cyrus more because of it's inherent upgradeability. Still going to try the Naim CD5x, and also thinking about trying the Musical Fidelity CD5.5 and Yamaha CD-S2000 (My dealer has them all, so I figured what the heck, might as well be sure!)

Have mercy Arcam bashers...as you'll see from my initial post I was deliberately going to avoid another Arcam CDP, but the CD37 definitely deserves to be considered on it's merit.....Can't wait to see how WHF rate it out of interest.

 

[floyd droid]

Ok im biased but do try to give the primare an audition,it looks sexy too.

 

[drummerman]

I would buy, without hestitation, CA's 840C. If you want neutrality and exceptional detail, not to mention functionality as a DAC for other sources, its unbeatable. You get an awful lot for your money and personally, I would'nt pay more for a player. Believe me, I've heard a lot more expensive ones.

 

[Dan Turner]

Cheers for the comments. I should have said, the Primare is on my shortlist to try. I would be willing to give the CA a try, but the problem is in getting one home for a trial - The only local stockist in Richer Sounds, they won't do a proper home demo, they will only let you buy the item and then give you store credit if you return it, even on the display models, which is obviously not much good.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

Dan Turner:
Cheers for the comments. I should have said, the Primare is on my shortlist to try. I would be willing to give the CA a try, but the problem is in getting one home for a trial - The only local stockist in Richer Sounds, they won't do a proper home demo, they will only let you buy the item and then give you store credit if you return it, even on the display models, which is obviously not much good.

Money back guaranteed not store credit.

30-DAY TOTALLY RISK FREE SATISFACTION GUARANTEE ON THIS PRODUCT

We're confident that you're buying a great product, however we also understand that buying audio equipment online, or even in a purpose built dem room in one of our stores, is totally different to hearing the equipment in your very own home with your favourite music.

We strive to get you the very best result to suit your room and your budget. Therefore, if you're not completely satisfied, and we mean, "completely satisfied", you can return your purchase within 30 days and we'll refund your money in full.

 

[JoelSim]

Dan Turner:
OK - so for anyone that's interested, the first round of trials is underway; I've borrowed the Cyrus CD8SE and an Arcam CD37 (I gave inÿfollowing the good review/award from HFC). My humble opinion is thus:

At the moment it definitelyÿpreferring the Arcam.ÿ I could not believe the sound coming out of that thing.

Don't get me wrong the Cyrus is a great CD player, good detail, nice bass, it's all there, but it's all rather too polite (I can't believe I'm saying it either) - by comparison the Arcam has this great, powerful, deep, tuneful bass, that just motors the whole sound along, and whilst on immediate impressions the Cyrus sounds more detailed because of it's slightly brighter balance, once you become aclimitised to the Arcam's slightly warmer balance you realise that all the treble detail is there, but what the Arcam does it to carry that increased resolution all the way though the mid-range and bass in a way that the Cyrus just can't seem to do.

The other thing is that the Arcam has more solidity to the sound stage and the whole thing hangs together better when things start to drive hard or get complex.

I've decided to make doubly sure the Cyrus is fully run in by leaving it playing on repeat all day, but for now, I'm just enjoying the Arcam.ÿ It really is good. Oh yeah, and Dark Side of the Moon on SACD - incredible.

Quite inconvenient actually, I wanted to like the Cyrus more because of it's inherent upgradeability. Still going to try the Naim CD5x, and also thinking about trying the Musical Fidelity CD5.5 and Yamaha CD-S2000 (My dealer has them all, so I figured what the heck, might as well be sure!)

Have mercyÿArcam bashers...as you'll see from my initial post I was deliberately going to avoid another Arcam CDP, but the CD37 definitelyÿdeserves to be considered on it's merit.....Can't wait to see how WHF rate it out of interest.

They gave it 3 stars, twice. Unlike other more hi-end mags that appreciate the greater detail, resolution, focus, neutrality and overall listenability that Arcam provides over some other manufacturers.

ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

Ignore the Cyrus, unless you like screechy cheap looking and sounding stuff.

Tried the 6se and 8se and found them awful. Went for Primare, cd21, great sound and musically better, for me.

Best way to improve is to try new speakers, they have more impact on your system than any cd player.

 

[drummerman]

yodelmiester:
Ignore the Cyrus, unless you like screechy cheap looking and sounding stuff.

Tried the 6se and 8se and found them awful. Went for Primare, cd21, great sound and musically better, for me.

Best way to improve is to try new speakers, they have more impact on your system than any cd player.

Don't ignore them but certainly consider others too.

By the way, you've spelled your forum name wrong ... Yodelmeister, not miester

 

[Dan Turner]

It turns out that the Cyrus was not fully run-in; after a couple of days on repeat play it sounded much better. However I still preferred the Arcam by a decisive margin. The Cyrus may have a touch more high frequency detail, but was too bright and got a bit wearing in the end, and in isolation the Arcam sounds extremely detailed. But the bass is where it's really at - the Arcam just beats the Cyrus hands down for depth, tunefulness and pace.

I have also since borrowed a Naim CD5x, which I have now, along with the Arcam, which makes a much more interesting comparison. Much closer, and everything that's been said about the Naim sound is true; the timing and rythm is just lovely and just sounds so right when you're listeneing to it. However the Arcam has got a cleaner and criser treble, and sounds a bit more 3 dimensional, and what it lacks in speed (only in comparison with the Naim, and even then only slightly) it makes up for in outright depth.

So in my opinion the Arcam is best. I've also had to have a bit of a reality check on the budget - glad I tried the Naim, but so glad I liked the Arcam best. I think I'll leave the rest of the ones in the £1500 region as I really can't stretch that far, and the Arcam is so good that I'll be very satisfied with it.

Thank for the advice.

 

[Anonymous]

hoorah for Arcam! Thanks for sharing that. Enjoy the arc, very nice.

 

[baldy38]

No-one appears to have mentioned the Rega Saturn. Which is a mistake because it's brilliant. What Hifi haven't reviewed it yet for some reason but others have, with universally glowing praise:

http://www.techradar.com/products/audio-visual/hi-fi-and-audio/cd-players-recorders/saturn-94720/review

http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Reviews/Real_Hi_Fi/E5B8E6X3

http://www.stereotimes.com/CD091806PS.shtml

I've got one, and I can't imagine ever wanting another CD player. You must go and hear one.

 

[Anonymous]

G'day Dan, the Cyrus CD 8 SE needs a lot more than a couple of days to run-in. It took mine all of three weeks (and over 200 hours) to start sounding at its best.

For people who reckon there are problems with the new line of Servo Evolution "SE" Cyrus CD Players, I have had mine for over four weeks now, and the only problem I have had is that two of my CD's (not CD-R's; I don't believe in playing burnt CD's on my sound system!) have not loaded (either due to the CD's being scratched, or more likely, that they are fractionally under- or over-sized and out of Cyrus's stringent adherence to the Redbook standards).

Otherwise, this is an absolutely stunning piece of kit - and yes, I have listened to Rotel, Cambridge Audio, and even the Primare CD31 (on more than one occasion).