New amp that changed an uncompromising opinion and beat the opposition so convincingly I took it home

[gasolin]

Buy vintage or specific look for current strong amps

Im 100% shure the old nad 3020a or b (+ 40 years old) in mint condition will driver what ever you want to use

 

[Jasonovich]

I think some/most have fully read my original and following post some maybe not.
I can't blame them it's rather long winded, alas I'm also guilty on occasion of skimming through things for whatever reason.

Suffice to say it's like musical chairs/amps at the minute as I swapped back to the 33yr old a-400 to then carry the Roskan K3 in from another room to then swap to the Arcam sa30 to then swap back again.
Understanding ohms law was part of my education (although everyday is a school day) so it's never been a point of overdriving anything, I know what I need in watts dept it's the capacity to drive these watts that has caused "a suspicion" with the Technics with it's given symptoms before shutoff.
(After catching up with someone who's had the same problem it seems I may be right given his was fine until upping the volume.
Like me he never bothered with the dimmer function to know about nor prompt the same F76 shutdown but it seems its also causing problems)

For example for 33yrs I've had the pioneer with its 50 watts humble more speakers than I can remember and more than a few amps specified at triple that, the Roskan I've got now comes close , even a few nearly with 4x that (not counting the non hifi to me djay gear which hits the 4 digits) but none I like sonically as much as the A-400.
As some may remember in prior post's as a kid I had a repaired 12w Sansui au505 although in a shoebox bedroom would go way louder than most would believe and most couldn't stand.
I had it power anything from small bookshelf speakers to much larger Tannoys even all four using it's systems a&b together although the quality suffered it still was enough in wattage as it had sufficient ac current to carry it.

It seems to be the current needed that' was missing.
I've noticed a few amps run hot due to speakers sucking more wattage than the amps current can provide which this isn't usually a problem as it's momentary impedance peaks and troughs give time to shed off the resulting heat.
Some amps as most know aren't truthful it seems about there specs.

I know rega have issues with such claims of being able to drive quote "difficult to drive speakers with ease" in actual fact they have readjusted their manuals with the elicit to using the same prior warning of thermal shutdowns to cover 6ohm loads aswell as the original 4ohm in a disclaimer type way.
Apparently they have they very good customer service which is just aswell given the volume of online accounts stating heat problems.
Using the body as a heatsink is a tad silly given the real world applications of placement.
Although there's many accounts of rega amps overheating I've had one that only ran warm on a home demo once and am about to try the new elicit Mk5 in the next few days.
It will be with the Fyne's nominal 8ohms and QA 3050i at 6ohms so I'm expecting the "Rega oven" type treatment.

I'm listening to the pioneer now at a smidge under 3 out of its 10 which is about 46/100 on the Arcam and 10 to 11 o'clock on the Roskan and they all stay cool, the pioneer is at 20°c with an ambient temperature of 18°c and been playing for 15m or so.
I've never needed to go past 4 on the pioneer or past 11oclock with the amps I have, even then it's usually prompted by a bad recording.
I'm always one to safeguard my gear in that respect, I even still turn my amp to zero before powering on 😂 although it's not a needed practice anymore it's still engrained into me from the old days.
Especially with the prices of hifi now, even in the days of coming home with all sorts of gear from the boot sales in the 90s when those mostly terrible all-in-one sharp systems gave rise to people giving their decent then to be seen as old fashioned actual hifi the boot, I still took care of it hence some of it is still around now.

Firstly Stuart, I hope you get a positive outcome to the problems you've been experiencing.
My Atoll IN100 I have the volume dial around 10:30, it gets very loud!

 

[Shrek]

Firstly Stuart, I hope you get a positive outcome to the problems you've been experiencing.
My Atoll IN100 I have the volume dial around 10:30, it gets very loud!

I find it hard to believe that Technics would allow this to happen if it did im sure they would resolve it there build quality is superb to clarify are you saying that after 30 mins it trips off or are you saying when you turn it up it trips off?

 

[Shrek]

1,113 words (with no punctuation) to say that the Technics Grand Class broke?

mmm i agree .

 

[Stuart83]

I find it hard to believe that Technics would allow this to happen if it did im sure they would resolve it there build quality is superb to clarify are you saying that after 30 mins it trips off or are you saying when you turn it up it trips off?

First of all please follow the links

I'm not the only one now am I, indeed there's many instances of this shared problem occuring "numerous" times with others resulting in returns etc.

mmm i agree .

Again I will shorten it going out of character for me just for you on a an actual (chat)room

Here goes just for you-

"Bought a technics amp thingy and it broke"

I'm sure that is a very explanatory account of what happened and would of prompted many replies!
I'm sure it's about as useful as your manner with me after absolutely not reading the original nor obviously the following messages for that matter.

As for pronunciation please see the other reply, I have a smartphone using my break times to comment etc in which most people in turn are very helpful and likable to boot so thanks for your input.

I usually ignore such posts yet you have caught at the wrong/right time.

 

[Stuart83]

Firstly Stuart, I hope you get a positive outcome to the problems you've been experiencing.
My Atoll IN100 I have the volume dial around 10:30, it gets very loud!

Thanks as always "Jasonovich"

Im at the demo rooms again today and after going through the usual suspects and some rarer known brands and a few stuck out to me for combined reviews and specs, I always cross-reference to see if there's a non biast shared opinion forming over the usual product pushing and also a demo availability from somewhere I trust.

There's one that seems more than capable and known for being able to drive almost most any speaker even at 2ohms with a frankly huge by any comparison "damping factor" utilizing a 6 large capacitor array.
I feel the need to say though this is all of no use to me if it doesn't sound good hence I feel it's immaterial at this point to mention if you haven't already guessed what it is.

The french Atoll you have interests me straight off the bat but can't get a demo at places I usually go in Stockton or richer sounds etc 😢
It's said to be upfront and ballsy by themselves with numerous buyers personal accounts stating a clean powerful presentation, great fun, dynamic and wont lay down in the background (right up my aisle then)
Plenty of accounts on the maverick site of it handling various loads with ease.

Tbh after seeing your various setups in the pictures you left via other threads it filled me with envy 😁, I forget the name of the thread showcasing other people's set-ups but I could happily spend the day (in fact I fear I'd become a pest and not want to leave) listening to all your gear.
It seems you have multiple systems for every occasion 😁
Headphones and separate dacs etc for those applicable times is something I'm going to be looking into at some point so knowing of someone who is evidently knowledgeable to ask is of great advantage.

There is other people too here with lovely gear that I take a mental note of when they post to try and get a listen for myself, some I have done and it shows how vastly different people's tastes are and that they all have both their own and together a collective knowledge base that's very varied and valuable to draw on.

I would of been happy with the Technics which I'd of kept for a long time and despite really loving hifi because of what it provides me in the joy it brings it's still stressful when it goes wrong especially with the mone y involved like nearly everybody else I save for a long time to get this kit.

 

[Jasonovich]

Thanks as always "Jasonovich"

Im at the demo rooms again today and after going through the usual suspects and some rarer known brands and a few stuck out to me for combined reviews and specs, I always cross-reference to see if there's a non biast shared opinion forming over the usual product pushing and also a demo availability from somewhere I trust.

There's one that seems more than capable and known for being able to drive almost most any speaker even at 2ohms with a frankly huge by any comparison "damping factor" utilizing a 6 large capacitor array.
I feel the need to say though this is all of no use to me if it doesn't sound good hence I feel it's immaterial at this point to mention if you haven't already guessed what it is.

The french Atoll you have interests me straight off the bat but can't get a demo at places I usually go in Stockton or richer sounds etc 😢
It's said to be upfront and ballsy by themselves with numerous buyers personal accounts stating a clean powerful presentation, great fun, dynamic and wont lay down in the background (right up my aisle then)
Plenty of accounts on the maverick site of it handling various loads with ease.

Tbh after seeing your various setups in the pictures you left via other threads it filled me with envy 😁, I forget the name of the thread showcasing other people's set-ups but I could happily spend the day (in fact I fear I'd become a pest and not want to leave) listening to all your gear.
It seems you have multiple systems for every occasion 😁
Headphones and separate dacs etc for those applicable times is something I'm going to be looking into at some point so knowing of someone who is evidently knowledgeable to ask is of great advantage.

There is other people too here with lovely gear that I take a mental note of when they post to try and get a listen for myself, some I have done and it shows how vastly different people's tastes are and that they all have both their own and together a collective knowledge base that's very varied and valuable to draw on.

I would of been happy with the Technics which I'd of kept for a long time and despite really loving hifi because of what it provides me in the joy it brings it's still stressful when it goes wrong especially with the mone y involved like nearly everybody else I save for a long time to get this kit.

I hear you.
I just left my local MOT centre, cost me £167 to fix the car, ouch! 😱
This was money spent that has no value, unlike HiFi you always get something back with the proviso if spend wisely but in your situation, it was not of your making, you had a product that had some engineering defect, yeah real bummer.

I know people tend to enthuse about their equipment, I'm easily pleased ha ha ha. The Atoll, all of what you describe is true.
It delivers on all genres. I got mine on eBay second hand in pristine condition for £800+, it was a risk because the rationale behind my purchase was based on YouTube reviews, not really a solid bases because many of the reviews are subject to paid sponsorships. Happy to say, I wasn't disappointed, it kicks monsieur Macron's ar3e!
I would never recommend other people to shop like me, if it doesn't work out, I will put it back on eBay, maybe at a small loss but hey ho, I get some fun out of it. 🙂

I think you have your head firmly fixed on your shoulders, no rush, try and get those demos underway in your local showrooms, it wont be long before you find an amp that ticks all the boxes for you.

 

[gasolin]

This amp ?

https://petertyson.co.uk/marantz-pm-12se-integrated-amplifier-black

 

[Jasonovich]

@Stuart83
If you live near Harrow, pop in to Atoll dealership and have a listen?

Harrow Audio ~ Atoll Amplifier | Authorised Atoll dealer | Free Shipping

Atoll Electronique Amplifiers on demonstration at Harrow Audio. Free UK Shipping on all online orders. Finance available on request

harrowaudiohifi.co.uk

 

[Stuart83]

Short of starting another thread and possibly loosing off the people who were helpful and generally sympathetic to the Technics going faulty Ive decided to update this thread rather than start afresh outside of the original topic.

!!As i find it rather pointless to write in an over short contentless format with "hey there, got new amp it's da bomb" so if your not interested please don't 🧌Troll around just flick past and to the others especially who have helped thanks again 😁 !!

I did as said hit the demo rooms...... Again, well my favourite more local ones demoing too many to list including one of the suggestions made here.
However the Atoll that "Jasonovich" mentioned still remains elusive for reasons of geography which plain sucked as tbh it's literary reviews are right up my street.

I had a second listen to the Paris audio A10 which I just didn't like even after swapping the speakers around in the demo room.
I listened to a few others including the Audiolab 9000a which was a decent listen, a couple of Musical fidelity's and Hegals sparring partner Niam but none were to me as good as the Technics that gave in on me,I felt defeatest tbh.
Coincidentally another guy popped up having this same problem with the F76 shudown fault since my original posting, shame as I'd of stuck with it otherwise as the shop offered a replacement.

Then came something that quite simply made me smile ear to ear the Hegal H190, I instantly hit the volume + button on it's heavy full metal weapon of remote 😂 and in came the way this Hegal handles bass which is something special.
I know it has a huge damping factor of 4000 but it really does stop a driver dead mid throw when needed creating the tightest yet most impactful bass I've heard for a long time.
A few times I've instinctually felt the urge to duck thinking the Fynes would jettison a driver through the window.

Gone are the itchy trousers from excess bass flab and in with the quick snappy taught beats of a drums intended sound.
The Fynes I use can be a bit harsh up top but it's totally in control here, even with The Lumineers new album which is plagued with Siblance it stays in control just like the Technics only on steroids.
After hanging back awhile inline with my attitude of not commenting until I've gathered a good understanding, I can say it sounds the polar opposite of what I expected in such a good way.
It's light nimble and crystal clear with the aforementioned bass that tight and impactfully clear you have to watch the drivers to know your way over even your highest volumes ever hit in your most adventurous moments, the way it tricks you with huge differences in volume between the quieter parts and louder parts of any given music just like a decent live performance the dynamics are very good, it plays on this that well it's had me grabbing the remote in haste a few times to turn it down when hitting a loud part usually in classical music.

I'm not one to dog an amp that ive got rid of especially one I liked as much sonically as the Technics, (Although Technically I owe it nothing it broke on me irrespective of any excuses made) but to say the Hegal steps it up a few notches (for me) isn't a over statement.
The volume is a fly by wire affair so every adjustment is usable meaning rather than the amp peaking before halfway it runs all the way.
Anything before 55 it's sleeping but after that it's like poking a bear.
I found it rather strange yet Hegal put my mind at rest letting me know it's all usable volume before clipping, going online further calmed me as there's a few people inline with the photos of the amp find it's sweet spot is between 50 and 76, a dealer said "his buyers regularly quoted volumes from 50 to 70"......

"So that's 62 to 80 for me then 😊"

The amp doesn't activate it's completely separate gain stage until 81 with an audible click.
Instead of merging both the voltage and current gain into a single stage, Hegel separates them into two distinct modules, this helps eliminate clipping.
It's not something I normally use even with my listening preferences, I only noticed it audibly click when I was setting the max volume user preferences.

The volume is rather a percentage of the "actual availabile power" available rather than the regular lagarithmic volume scale seeing most amps give it their all well before halfway which gives the illusion to some of more power.
Most never go over it to find out but a few on here have hinted to it's existence, so I mustn't be the only one who likes to push it 😊.
It's for mostly better but sometimes for worse as Hegal says a "true to source" amp so some of the lower quality stuff sounds flat so thats most of my early punk out then 😢, fortunately I have a remastered version of The Clash "phew" 😂.
The decent recordings on the other hand sound very very good through the Hegals own dac to me and well worth it, besides I can totally side step the flat recordings by swapping over to the Marantz CDP's native DAC to utilize the CD 60s two filters which actually make an unmistakable difference to a bad recording/mastering.

The way it handles Rock is like the Arcam I kept hold of although noticeably better with more attack, yet it's dynamic volume gain between the typical softer quiet parts to the loud parts is in a much much bigger range causing almost accidental deafness.
I won't harp on too much 😂 but it's more than a worthy replacement for the Technics that's for sure but one fact remains, that amp single handedly changed my mindset on class D and maybe it wouldn't be a fair comparison to make giving the original prices where over a thousand apart.

It's found rattles I didn't know I had in the furniture that's for sure.

Well the Hegal is my happy place and should be something that I will stick with for many yrs like the pioneer I'm happy with it's sound and it shares the same ability to make me smile everytime it's on.

 

[Jasonovich]

Short of starting another thread and possibly loosing off the people who were helpful and generally sympathetic to the Technics going faulty Ive decided to update this thread rather than start afresh outside of the original topic.

!!As i find it rather pointless to write in an over short contentless format with "hey there, got new amp it's da bomb" so if your not interested please don't 🧌Troll around just flick past and to the others especially who have helped thanks again 😁 !!

I did as said hit the demo rooms...... Again, well my favourite more local ones demoing too many to list including one of the suggestions made here.
However the Atoll that "Jasonovich" mentioned still remains elusive for reasons of geography which plain sucked as tbh it's literary reviews are right up my street.

I had a second listen to the Paris audio A10 which I just didn't like even after swapping the speakers around in the demo room.
I listened to a few others including the Audiolab 9000a which was a decent listen, a couple of Musical fidelity's and Hegals sparring partner Niam but none were to me as good as the Technics that gave in on me,I felt defeatest tbh.
Coincidentally another guy popped up having this same problem with the F76 shudown fault since my original posting, shame as I'd of stuck with it otherwise as the shop offered a replacement.

Then came something that quite simply made me smile ear to ear the Hegal H190, I instantly hit the volume + button on it's heavy full metal weapon of remote 😂 and in came the way this Hegal handles bass which is something special.
I know it has a huge damping factor of 4000 but it really does stop a driver dead mid throw when needed creating the tightest yet most impactful bass I've heard for a long time.
A few times I've instinctually felt the urge to duck thinking the Fynes would jettison a driver through the window.

Gone are the itchy trousers from excess bass flab and in with the quick snappy taught beats of a drums intended sound.
The Fynes I use can be a bit harsh up top but it's totally in control here, even with The Lumineers new album which is plagued with Siblance it stays in control just like the Technics only on steroids.
After hanging back awhile inline with my attitude of not commenting until I've gathered a good understanding, I can say it sounds the polar opposite of what I expected in such a good way.
It's light nimble and crystal clear with the aforementioned bass that tight and impactfully clear you have to watch the drivers to know your way over even your highest volumes ever hit in your most adventurous moments, the way it tricks you with huge differences in volume between the quieter parts and louder parts of any given music just like a decent live performance the dynamics are very good, it plays on this that well it's had me grabbing the remote in haste a few times to turn it down when hitting a loud part usually in classical music.

I'm not one to dog an amp that ive got rid of especially one I liked as much sonically as the Technics, (Although Technically I owe it nothing it broke on me irrespective of any excuses made) but to say the Hegal steps it up a few notches (for me) isn't a over statement.
The volume is a fly by wire affair so every adjustment is usable meaning rather than the amp peaking before halfway it runs all the way.
Anything before 55 it's sleeping but after that it's like poking a bear.
I found it rather strange yet Hegal put my mind at rest letting me know it's all usable volume before clipping, going online further calmed me as there's a few people inline with the photos of the amp find it's sweet spot is between 50 and 76, a dealer said "his buyers regularly quoted volumes from 50 to 70"......

"So that's 62 to 80 for me then 😊"

The amp doesn't activate it's completely separate gain stage until 81 with an audible click.
Instead of merging both the voltage and current gain into a single stage, Hegel separates them into two distinct modules, this helps eliminate clipping.
It's not something I normally use even with my listening preferences, I only noticed it audibly click when I was setting the max volume user preferences.

The volume is rather a percentage of the "actual availabile power" available rather than the regular lagarithmic volume scale seeing most amps give it their all well before halfway which gives the illusion to some of more power.
Most never go over it to find out but a few on here have hinted to it's existence, so I mustn't be the only one who likes to push it 😊.
It's for mostly better but sometimes for worse as Hegal says a "true to source" amp so some of the lower quality stuff sounds flat so thats most of my early punk out then 😢, fortunately I have a remastered version of The Clash "phew" 😂.
The decent recordings on the other hand sound very very good through the Hegals own dac to me and well worth it, besides I can totally side step the flat recordings by swapping over to the Marantz CDP's native DAC to utilize the CD 60s two filters which actually make an unmistakable difference to a bad recording/mastering.

The way it handles Rock is like the Arcam I kept hold of although noticeably better with more attack, yet it's dynamic volume gain between the typical softer quiet parts to the loud parts is in a much much bigger range causing almost accidental deafness.
I won't harp on too much 😂 but it's more than a worthy replacement for the Technics that's for sure but one fact remains, that amp single handedly changed my mindset on class D and maybe it wouldn't be a fair comparison to make giving the original prices where over a thousand apart.

It's found rattles I didn't know I had in the furniture that's for sure.

Well the Hegal is my happy place and should be something that I will stick with for many yrs like the pioneer I'm happy with it's sound and it shares the same ability to make me smile everytime it's on.

Congrats on your purchase. Excellent choice.

It's a shame, the Hegel's and the Atolls don't get mentioned enough on WHF. these are special amps.

I haven't listened to the Hegel 190 but there are lots of excellent reviews. Turan particularly, from A British Audiophile rates it very highly.

So I guess it's 😆 👍