Need more volume from centre channel

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Setup is a Denon 1940 multi-region DVD player feeding a Cyrus AV-8 Master surround processor. The Cyrus surround processor feeds the hifi speakers (Mordaunt Short Mezzo 6 floorstanders) via a Cyrus stereo system (twin 8-powers in twin mono mode) and the AV-8 Master drives the centre and rear channels via its own internal power amps.

Surround speakers are Mordaunt Short Avant 903i rears and a single Mordaunt Short MS-304 front centre.

The centre channel is more than a bit overwhelmed by the hifi speakers and I'd like to boost the output "on the cheap".

Questions therefore:

1, Could I wire up a pair of bookshelf speakers (I have a spare pair of Mordaunt-Short MS-302 rear surround / bookshelf speakers or I could justify an el-cheapo pair of other bookshelves off eBay) in place of the MS-304? If so, how do I wire 'em - in series or parallel?

2, Anyone got any ides about a cheap bookshelf pair (used either as a pair or just one of 'em) instead of the MS-302's?

3, Anyone got any recommendations for a higher cost solution? The Mezzo 5 is around 250 quid new on the web. Not sure I want to spend that much this side of Chrimbo....

 

[The_Lhc]

One assumes you've tried adjusting your levels to get the centre at the same volume as the fronts?

 

[Anonymous]

Ideally you want the centre speaker which is a match for the fronts (is that the mezzo 5?).

In the mean time until you get your $$$ together have you tried upping the volume of your centre channel and/or reducing the volume of your fronts? I don't know if this will work (I have no experience whatsoever of the Cyrus amp you mention) but as a get me by solution it may suffice.

 

[Anonymous]

It's up all the way to 11 guys!!!

BTW the Mezzo 5 in walnut is the thick end of 400 quid!!!

 

[John Duncan]

Then maybe you could turn the others down?

 

[Anonymous]

JohnDuncan:Then maybe you could turn the others down?

Nah! The neighbours like listening in

 

[Sorreltiger]

Sorry, I agree with the others - this is a set-up problem that won't be solved by buying new speakers. I'd reset the amp driving the front pair and then recalibrate the rest.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm sure I can get more volume out of bigger cones. The current ones are only about 2 1/2 inch diameter. QED they won't move much air no matter how much power I put through them. The Cyrus AV-8 spec is for 70 watts max on the centre channel so I don't think it's the amp's fault. There is no way to "recalibrate" the hifi side, it does what it does. All I can do is turn the bias on the centre channel all the way up, as I have done.

 

[Anonymous]

So in summary

The centre channel is turned up to max

Its not possible to turn the fronts down

You only want to buy a better centre as a last resort

Mmmm..... I'd say you have a problem then!

 

[The_Lhc]

Darren Heal:I'm sure I can get more volume out of bigger cones. The current ones are only about 2 1/2 inch diameter. QED they won't move much air no matter how much power I put through them. The Cyrus AV-8 spec is for 70 watts max on the centre channel so I don't think it's the amp's fault. There is no way to "recalibrate" the hifi side, it does what it does.

Are you trying to say you have no way of turning the front speakers down? That must be bloody irritating...

 

[John Duncan]

Darren Heal:I'm sure I can get more volume out of bigger cones. The current ones are only about 2 1/2 inch diameter. QED they won't move much air no matter how much power I put through them. The Cyrus AV-8 spec is for 70 watts max on the centre channel so I don't think it's the amp's fault. There is no way to "recalibrate" the hifi side, it does what it does. All I can do is turn the bias on the centre channel all the way up, as I have done.

I'd be quite happy to demonstrate small speakers making your ears bleed.

Your problem is one of calibration, not of speaker size. But I'm confused - The AV8 is a processor, and doesn't have internal amplification. How are you powering the centre and surround speakers?

EDIT - take it back, you're talking about the AVMaster 8, aren't you. Downloading manual as we speak...

 

[John Duncan]

Page 12 of the manual (available from the cyrus website here, though you need to register), to manually calibrate all channels against each other:

MANUAL LEVEL CALIBRATION
Disconnect the ALS microphone from the the AV master.
Hold down the front panel MEMORY key and press the
MODE key to begin calibration.
A burst of sound will be heard from the centre channel
speaker. Use the LEVEL CONTROL to set a
comfortable listening level.
When this level is set the AV-Master will automatically
sequence each channel in turn.
As the sound is heard from each channel the front panel
LEVEL CONTROL or the LEVEL CONTROL keys of the
handset can be used to adjust the level to match the sound level
set initially from the centre channel.
The automatic sequencing of the channels can be interrupted
by pressing the MEMORY STORE key of the handset. A
specific channel can be selected from the listening position
through the following handset keys-
To continue with automatic channel cycling, press the
MEMORY STORE key of the handset once more.

Alternatively, if you still have the mic, then use that to do auto calibration. Either way will allow you to manage the relative levels of the front L/R pair compared to the other three channels. Then you only use the trim function (where - as you point out - you only have access to centre and rears) to deal with material that's not optimal from a levels point of view.

 

[Anonymous]

JohnDuncan:Darren Heal:I'm sure I can get more volume out of bigger cones. The current ones are only about 2 1/2 inch diameter. QED they won't move much air no matter how much power I put through them. The Cyrus AV-8 spec is for 70 watts max on the centre channel so I don't think it's the amp's fault. There is no way to "recalibrate" the hifi side, it does what it does. All I can do is turn the bias on the centre channel all the way up, as I have done. I'd be quite happy to demonstrate small speakers making your ears bleed. Your problem is one of calibration, not of speaker size. But I'm confused - The AV8 is a processor, and doesn't have internal amplification. How are you powering the centre and surround speakers? EDIT - take it back, you're talking about the AVMaster 8, aren't you. Downloading manual as we speak...

AV Master 8 - yup.

Found the speaker trim function. Put this one down as an "RTFM" problem.

RTFM? - Coined by a bunch of software guys I used to work with - Read The , erm, Flipping Manual!!!

Which is good, cos the wife just phoned from Houston:

"Darren, we have a problem."

"I need 750 bucks to get the heads taken off the Discovery and a block check done."

She's blown a head gasket or two on the Discovery again, and they're not sure if it's the heads or a cracked engine block. If it's the latter, she's walking to work from now on.

 

[The_Lhc]

Darren Heal: RTFM? - Coined by a bunch of software guys I used to work with - Read The , erm, Flipping Manual!!!

No it wasn't. It does mean that, but they didn't coin that phrase, it's as old as the hills that one is.

Which is good, cos the wife just phoned from Houston:

"Darren, we have a problem."

"I need 750 bucks to get the heads taken off the Discovery and a block check done."

She's blown a head gasket or two on the Discovery again, and they're not sure if it's the heads or a cracked engine block. If it's the latter, she's walking to work from now on.

I doubt that's her fault, if it's a K-Series engine it just means neither of you have been checking the coolant level often enough, K-series don't hold a lot, so any loss can be critical, you really need to keep on top of it. Ask them to fit the uprated gasket set from the later Freelander and Disco, should stop it from happening again.

 

[Anonymous]

K-series V8?

Had a K-series in my 98 Elise - that blew the head gasket at bang on 25,000 miles. Phoned an ex Austin Rover engine engineer (if that makes sense) buddy of mine from University, now at ProDrive:

"They all do that".

Rover went belly up to avoid settling the claims on all the K-series head gaskets - nylon plugs / pegs used to locate the heads. Could it be the same on the Disco V-8s?

 

[The_Lhc]

Darren Heal:K-series V8?

You should have said that the first time.

Had a K-series in my 98 Elise - that blew the head gasket at bang on 25,000 miles. Phoned an ex Austin Rover engine engineer (if that makes sense) buddy of mine from University, now at ProDrive:

"They all do that".

Yes they will all do that if not looked after VERY carefully, that doesn't mean it's unavoidable.

Rover went belly up to avoid settling the claims on all the K-series head gaskets

Cobblers, they went belly up because they weren't selling enough cars. I could give another reason but it probably wouldn't be allowed here!

- nylon plugs / pegs used to locate the heads. Could it be the same on the Disco V-8s?

Don't know but the late model gasket kit replaces those nylon plugs with stronger ones, to stop the head shifting around apparently.

 

[Anonymous]

Rover went belly up to avoid settling the claims on all the K-series head gaskets

Cobblers, they went belly up because they weren't selling enough cars. I could give another reason but it probably wouldn't be allowed here!

Like BMW not allowing them to advertise, then the Phoenix four not only emptying the cash out of the piggy bank but flogging the piggy bank as well?

It certainly WAS a contributory factor in deciding to shut down the Company. Rover were looking at MILLIONS to settle claims and they simply couldn't afford it.

Anyway, I do understand the uprated head kits have steel dowels. I've got a Haynes (whoah!!! I hear all y'all say sarcastically) on order and I'll check it out. Will be quizzing the beardie-wierdies on the Landrover site about upgraded gasket sets.

Right now the guy in Houston is trying to bilk me $700 (about 400 quid?) for gaskets.

 

[John Duncan]

Aaaaanyway, have you sorted out your volume yet?

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, found the gain menu and toned down the fronts. Center can be heard now, but it sounds a bit thin. If the Landrover doesn't end up cost an arm and TWO legs and I get the six weeks work in Indonesia (tough life in the oil business you know) I'm hoping to get next week I might look at the Mezzo 5 centre in the New Year.

The iddy biddy centre speakers sound way too thin for my liking, but it'll have to wait.

 

[carter]

ms 905 might work

 

[Anonymous]

Capitulated and ordered up a Mezzo 5 from Synergy Sound and Vision for 305 quid incl. p&p. Richer Sounds have them listed on their web page at 250 quid, but they don't have any left and in any case the drive from here to Edinburgh and back to pick it up would cost me nearly the difference in petrol. Should be here by the weekend.

 

[Anonymous]

The Mezzo 5 arrived this morning:

With the unit it's replacing on top for comparison:

You can even bi-wire this sucker:

But it won't fit under the shelf!!!! (Cue best Homer Simpson voice) DOH!!!!

 

[The_Lhc]

Darren Heal:
The Mezzo 5 arrived this morning:

With the unit it's replacing on top for comparison:

Look at the size of that thing!

But it won't fit under the shelf!!!! (Cue best Homer Simpson voice) DOH!!!!

Errm, it looks like it's under the shelf, what am I missing?

 

[Anonymous]

The tweeter sits high in the cabinet, roughly 1/2 to 1-inch taller than the rest of the box. It'll push in most of the way but sits proud of the shelf front edge. A trip to B&Q (again) may be in the offing to look for longer legs.

 

[Anonymous]

Can't you swap the legs off the bottom shelf with the top ones to make a higher shelf? That's what I did with mine.