Need help deciding wether to get a "all in one" or separate options.

[gxvault]

Hello everyone, I'm a huge music fan and avid buyer of music on cd format. I've never had a good system to listen to my collection but I want to buy one after listening to the combo my friend has: pm6006 amp and CD and Monitor Audio bx2 I liked it but felt that it need more bass.
So now that Black Friday deals are here I wanna get a good deal and I've been thinking about the Denon Pma600ne and CD of the same series that I can get for 600€ both (a little less) and some speakers (klipsch r610f?) I have 1000€ to spend (more or less) or I can get Denon CEOL N10 with his speakers for 385€, but is it worth it? Sound quality wise.
I have a small room and I want the best possible quality not the loudest. On the contrary I don't wanna bother the neighborhs and the rest of the family.
Any help will be much appreciated 🙏
Thanks in advance.

 

[Noddy]

I have a couple of large boxes packed with CDs. a friend laughed at me. He streams music. Now I do too, it’s incredibly convenient. No buying CDs, no hunting through a huge collection, no scratches, no putting the CD on, no CD player. About £100 a year subscription. You can listen to obscure music, it’s great. You can get streaming amps , such as Wiim Amp Pro for £400, or some active speakers with a Wiim Mini. Kef LSX II as manufacturers refurb can be had for roughly your budget. There’s many other choices.

 

[Cork]

The advantage to an all-in-one is space and ease of control. The advantage of separates is upgradeability and failed component replacement.

I'm not a big fan of streaming, I use it to find new music (Tidal); but when I'm playing something I prefer to have the quality and availability not be random. But I rip my CDs and play them from a NAS server, so I can access them anywhere. If you think you may do something similar you may want to consider an integrated amp with network capability. (The Denon looks nice otherwise though.) FWIW, I like the Yamaha WXA-50.

If you liked your friend's sound you're ahead of the game; you can get highly thought of speakers and still not like the sound. So I'd go with what's known and add a smallish sub. You can always turn it down/off when you don't want to disturb anyone.

 

[gxvault]

I have a couple of large boxes packed with CDs. a friend laughed at me. He streams music. Now I do too, it’s incredibly convenient. No buying CDs, no hunting through a huge collection, no scratches, no putting the CD on, no CD player. About £100 a year subscription. You can listen to obscure music, it’s great. You can get streaming amps , such as Wiim Amp Pro for £400, or some active speakers with a Wiim Mini. Kef LSX II as manufacturers refurb can be had for roughly your budget. There’s many other choices.

Thank you for your reply. The thing is I really dig and kind of "need" the so called hunt for the next find or the next cheap deal. It helps me be active and plan a city walk with my wife searching for 2nd hand shops etc Also I'm 43 years old and still like to listen to music while reading the cd inlets and look at the art of the covers.
I'm also a streaming user and have Spotify tho.

The advantage to an all-in-one is space and ease of control. The advantage of separates is upgradeability and failed component replacement.

I'm not a big fan of streaming, I use it to find new music (Tidal); but when I'm playing something I prefer to have the quality and availability not be random. But I rip my CDs and play them from a NAS server, so I can access them anywhere. If you think you may do something similar you may want to consider an integrated amp with network capability. (The Denon looks nice otherwise though.) FWIW, I like the Yamaha WXA-50.

If you liked your friend's sound you're ahead of the game; you can get highly thought of speakers and still not like the sound. So I'd go with what's known and add a smallish sub. You can always turn it down/off when you don't want to disturb anyone.

Thanks for the reply.
I liked the amp and cd player but thought the whole set or maybe the speakers were a little fatiguing and lacked bass, that's why I'm eyeing other options speaker wise. The amp and cd player I liked a lot but Amazon has a deal on Denon and I can get both cd and amp for less than 600€ instead of 900€ for the marantz combo.
It's the 2nd time I've thought about getting an hifi system but I must be honest for a newbie like me it's overwhelming the amount of equipment and price range 😅
I'll look into that yamaha 👍 👍

 

[Fandango Andy]

Hello everyone, I'm a huge music fan and avid buyer of music on cd format. I've never had a good system to listen to my collection but I want to buy one after listening to the combo my friend has: pm6006 amp and CD and Monitor Audio bx2 I liked it but felt that it need more bass.
So now that Black Friday deals are here I wanna get a good deal and I've been thinking about the Denon Pma600ne and CD of the same series that I can get for 600€ both (a little less) and some speakers (klipsch r610f?) I have 1000€ to spend (more or less) or I can get Denon CEOL N10 with his speakers for 385€, but is it worth it? Sound quality wise.
I have a small room and I want the best possible quality not the loudest. On the contrary I don't wanna bother the neighborhs and the rest of the family.
Any help will be much appreciated 🙏
Thanks in advance.

It's impossible to recommend as things are different prices in different countries, so rather than give you specifics here are a few pointers:

In the UK we have a company called Richer Sounds, they cover a wide spectrum of budget, and will happily do demos. They very often have package deals where you can get a system in one go at a discount. Or offer you a discount if you buy multiple components at the same time. Do you have a store like this?

I would lean towards a separate amp and CD player as it makes it easier to upgrade in future if desired.

Start with the loudspeakers. You say the room is small, but you want bass. A smaller size set of floorstanders makes sense. Having said that there are lots of standmounts that do the job too. You may even go so smaller speakers and a sub. The important thing is to get the right speakers for the room, and position them correctly. A huge number of people spend a fortune upgrading when all they had to do to make their existing speakers sound good was to give them more room to breathe. Spend at least a third of your budget on the speakers, half if you go for an all in one system.

What is your second hand market like? If you buy one component second hand it will give you more budget for the other two.

Reviews are a good starting point, but there is no substitute for listening to a system.

Finally, have you considered active speakers? Rather than combining the amp and CD, combine the amp and speaker. You will get the most bang for your buck this way. EF LSX, Triangle AIO, Q Acoustics M40 should all leave enough budget for a decent CD player.

 

[gxvault]

It's impossible to recommend as things are different prices in different countries, so rather than give you specifics here are a few pointers:

In the UK we have a company called Richer Sounds, they cover a wide spectrum of budget, and will happily do demos. They very often have package deals where you can get a system in one go at a discount. Or offer you a discount if you buy multiple components at the same time. Do you have a store like this?

I would lean towards a separate amp and CD player as it makes it easier to upgrade in future if desired.

Start with the loudspeakers. You say the room is small, but you want bass. A smaller size set of floorstanders makes sense. Having said that there are lots of standmounts that do the job too. You may even go so smaller speakers and a sub. The important thing is to get the right speakers for the room, and position them correctly. A huge number of people spend a fortune upgrading when all they had to do to make their existing speakers sound good was to give them more room to breathe. Spend at least a third of your budget on the speakers, half if you go for an all in one system.

What is your second hand market like? If you buy one component second hand it will give you more budget for the other two.

Reviews are a good starting point, but there is no substitute for listening to a system.

Finally, have you considered active speakers? Rather than combining the amp and CD, combine the amp and speaker. You will get the most bang for your buck this way. EF LSX, Triangle AIO, Q Acoustics M40 should all leave enough budget for a decent CD player.

Thank you for your reply.
Unfortunately I'm in Portugal and the market is...let's say, very shy...I have 0 confidence to buy at 2nd hand market.
I've never thought about active speakers, that sounds interesting 🤔
I wanna have some kind of control over bass and treble too. And yes you're right maybe in a small room I might not need a sub but instead proper tower speakers. Unfortunately I haven't been able to listen to any of them but I'll try to reach out to 2 shops and see if I can listen to Dali Oberon 6 but I have 0 understanding about this things lol that's why I need someone who have knowledge of a wide range of speakers to at least point me in one direction like "nop, those are way to powerful for the size of your room, go this way instead..." 😉 the rest I understand is about "taste" I'm aware I need to listen to some speakers to see if they fit my "vision" of what I wanna hear.
Thanks again for the reply it helped me a lot! 🤝

 

[Fandango Andy]

Thank you for your reply.
Unfortunately I'm in Portugal and the market is...let's say, very shy...I have 0 confidence to buy at 2nd hand market.
I've never thought about active speakers, that sounds interesting 🤔
I wanna have some kind of control over bass and treble too. And yes you're right maybe in a small room I might not need a sub but instead proper tower speakers. Unfortunately I haven't been able to listen to any of them but I'll try to reach out to 2 shops and see if I can listen to Dali Oberon 6 but I have 0 understanding about this things lol that's why I need someone who have knowledge of a wide range of speakers to at least point me in one direction like "nop, those are way to powerful for the size of your room, go this way instead..." 😉 the rest I understand is about "taste" I'm aware I need to listen to some speakers to see if they fit my "vision" of what I wanna hear.
Thanks again for the reply it helped me a lot! 🤝

What are the dimensions of your room? Are your speakers going to be on stands, or some kind of shelf/unit?

 

[gxvault]

What are the dimensions of your room? Are your speakers going to be on stands, or some kind of shelf/unit?

My office is in the attic and it's approximately 25 sq meters.
I'm planning on putting them on stands but I can put them on a ikea bestä unit too.
I also want to be able to get some good quality listening on headphones too, I have 2 kids and I'll probably listen to a lot of music at night when I'll have the time to focus more on myself hehe

 

[Fandango Andy]

My office is in the attic and it's approximately 25 sq meters.
I'm planning on putting them on stands but I can put them on a ikea bestä unit too.
I also want to be able to get some good quality listening on headphones too, I have 2 kids and I'll probably listen to a lot of music at night when I'll have the time to focus more on myself hehe

25m² isn't particularly small. What are the dimensions? Is the room square, if not will the speakers go on a long or short wall?

Stands are better than on a unit. If you are putting them on a unit try to get some isolation feet.

If you have room for stands, you have room for floor standers. Maybe worth looking into.

You mention Dali Oberon 6, don't they cost more than your total quoted budget? Or was the budget just for amp and CD player? Or did you mean Dali Spector 6?

Dali speakers are quite quite forgiving about their position, you only need 20cm from the wall. Most speakers like more like 40 to 60cm. Whatever you buy it's worth reading the manual to get positioning correct.

 

[gxvault]

25m² isn't particularly small. What are the dimensions? Is the room square, if not will the speakers go on a long or short wall?

Stands are better than on a unit. If you are putting them on a unit try to get some isolation feet.

If you have room for stands, you have room for floor standers. Maybe worth looking into.

You mention Dali Oberon 6, don't they cost more than your total quoted budget? Or was the budget just for amp and CD player? Or did you mean Dali Spector 6?

Dali speakers are quite quite forgiving about their position, you only need 20cm from the wall. Most speakers like more like 40 to 60cm. Whatever you buy it's worth reading the manual to get positioning correct.

The ceiling is triangle shaped, as for the speakers I can position them from 20cm onward. Ive an old Sony cd player so I'm thinking if I could use it I would and just grab an amp and some quality speakers.

 

[Fandango Andy]

The ceiling is triangle shaped, as for the speakers I can position them from 20cm onward. Ive an old Sony cd player so I'm thinking if I could use it I would and just grab an amp and some quality speakers.

I think you are misunderstanding me when I say dimensions. 25m² could be 5x5 or approximately 3x8, or 4x6 and so on. The roof shape will reduce the volume (cubic meters, not loudness) of the room, and impact the reverberations. You will need a reasonable amount of soft furnishing, or room treatments. If the room isn't carpeted, get yourself a big rug.

Some old Sony CD players are great, I have a Sony CDP-XE570 in my bedroom, it is excellent.

If you are just looking for amp and speakers, I would consider a Marantz PM6007 coupled with one of the following (or their stand-mount equivalents):

• Triangle Borea BR07 (my favourite, but the most expensive of the three)
• Q Acoustics 3050i (the highest regarded)
• Dali Spektor 6 (very heavily discounted at the moment, and the easiest to position)

 

[gxvault]

I think you are misunderstanding me when I say dimensions. 25m² could be 5x5 or approximately 3x8, or 4x6 and so on. The roof shape will reduce the volume (cubic meters, not loudness) of the room, and impact the reverberations. You will need a reasonable amount of soft furnishing, or room treatments. If the room isn't carpeted, get yourself a big rug.

Some old Sony CD players are great, I have a Sony CDP-XE570 in my bedroom, it is excellent.

If you are just looking for amp and speakers, I would consider a Marantz PM6007 coupled with one of the following (or their stand-mount equivalents):

• Triangle Borea BR07 (my favourite, but the most expensive of the three)
• Q Acoustics 3050i (the highest regarded)
• Dali Spektor 6 (very heavily discounted at the moment, and the easiest to position)

Thanks for the opinion!
It's a bit weird in shape and probably 4x6.
I already have a rug hehe
I was leaning towards the Denon Pma600NE because it's heavily discounted. It's 309€ vs 449€ for Marantz.
I've seen a lot of options like the wiim, fosi and ariyiama since it looks like I'll just plug the cd player and in the future probably a Phono. The key for me is the best sound possible at a reasonable price for the room acoustics I have. A budget of 1000€ more or less for amp and speakers. I'm aware it's a bit low but I want to grab some quality headphones in the near future too and probably a streamer...

 

[Noddy]

Thanks for the opinion!
It's a bit weird in shape and probably 4x6.
I already have a rug hehe
I was leaning towards the Denon Pma600NE because it's heavily discounted. It's 309€ vs 449€ for Marantz.
I've seen a lot of options like the wiim, fosi and ariyiama since it looks like I'll just plug the cd player and in the future probably a Phono. The key for me is the best sound possible at a reasonable price for the room acoustics I have. A budget of 1000€ more or less for amp and speakers. I'm aware it's a bit low but I want to grab some quality headphones in the near future too and probably a streamer...

I don’t know what you should get, but if you are still considering Wiim:

WiiM Amp Streaming Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the WiiM Amp streaming amplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $299. I was pleasantly surprised by the good bit of weight this small box has. It will help it not slide with the weight of the speaker wires and such. Back panel shows...

www.audiosciencereview.com

WiiM Amp Pro Streaming Stereo Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the WiiM Amp Pro networked streaming stereo class D amplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $379. The package is minimalistic in nature and matches the "non-pro" version of the amplifier. The volume indicator is that set of LEDs...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The pro is the better product, in fact it’s an excellent product, even as just an amp - ignoring streaming - it would rate as very good value. It has digital and analogue input - one of each - suitable for a CD player. And he says it’s good enough with a turntable too. And you’d not have to buy a streamer later on.

Good luck whatever you decide, it’s not easy choosing hifi gear.

PS I recommend you add the Cambridge Audio P100 to your headphone consider list, it is as good as my Sennheiser HD600.

 

[gxvault]

I don’t know what you should get, but if you are still considering Wiim:

WiiM Amp Streaming Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the WiiM Amp streaming amplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $299. I was pleasantly surprised by the good bit of weight this small box has. It will help it not slide with the weight of the speaker wires and such. Back panel shows...

www.audiosciencereview.com

WiiM Amp Pro Streaming Stereo Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the WiiM Amp Pro networked streaming stereo class D amplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $379. The package is minimalistic in nature and matches the "non-pro" version of the amplifier. The volume indicator is that set of LEDs...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The pro is the better product, in fact it’s an excellent product, even as just an amp - ignoring streaming - it would rate as very good value. It has digital and analogue input - one of each - suitable for a CD player. And he says it’s good enough with a turntable too. And you’d not have to buy a streamer later on.

Good luck whatever you decide, it’s not easy choosing hifi gear.

PS I recommend you add the Cambridge Audio P100 to your headphone consider list, it is as good as my Sennheiser HD600.

Wow many thanks!
I was warching some reviews on the wiim pro vs pro+

Many thanks!

 

[Fandango Andy]

Thanks for the opinion!
It's a bit weird in shape and probably 4x6.
I already have a rug hehe
I was leaning towards the Denon Pma600NE because it's heavily discounted. It's 309€ vs 449€ for Marantz.
I've seen a lot of options like the wiim, fosi and ariyiama since it looks like I'll just plug the cd player and in the future probably a Phono. The key for me is the best sound possible at a reasonable price for the room acoustics I have. A budget of 1000€ more or less for amp and speakers. I'm aware it's a bit low but I want to grab some quality headphones in the near future too and probably a streamer...

I have never heard the Denon, but it is a good amp by reputation.

I'm not sure bout the Chinese Class D amps. They are getting good reviews for sound and price, but haven't been around long enough to know how reliable they will be.

Your budget is fine, there is lots of great equipment within your affordability. The most important thing is to get speaker positioning right.

 

[Noddy]

I'm not sure bout the Chinese Class D amps. They are getting good reviews for sound and price, but haven't been around long enough to know how reliable they will be.

Your budget is fine, there is lots of great equipment within your affordability. The most important thing is to get speaker positioning right.

Most amps these days are made in China, such as my AudioLab, so a reputable make should be okay. Wiim streamers seem to be robust. And class D runs cool compared to A/B, which might be an advantage. Google might help. Just make sure you buy from a reliable seller who can provide warranty support.

My Arcam, made somewhere near China failed after a few years.

 

[Fandango Andy]

Most amps these days are made in China, such as my AudioLab, so a reputable make should be okay. Wiim streamers seem to be robust. And class D runs cool compared to A/B, which might be an advantage. Google might help. Just make sure you buy from a reliable seller who can provide warranty support.

My Arcam, made somewhere near China failed after a few years.

Fair point.

My system is old enough that my amp is made in Japan, and my speakers in Scotland.

In fairness, the country of origin of the class D amps is probably not the important point. They are all too new to understand if they are too good to be true.

No complaints about Wiim streamers. I use mine most days.

 

[daytona600]

Pro-ject Stereo Box E, CD Box E, Speaker Box 3 E carbon