Need advice on an upgrade! (amp & speaker related)

[Freditor]

Hi all,

So I'm about to do an upgrade of my hi-fi system.

Some background info first: I only use this for music. CD, vinyl and tuner (radio). No home cinema stuff (I like to keep those separated).

Currently I have:

- An old Onkyo R1 receiver (got this from my dad who didn't use it anymore)

- A Sony CDP-XE370 cd player

- A Gemini PT-2000 turntable (got this as a gift, not gonna swap it for now)

- Mordaunt Short Avant 902i bookshelve speakers on Mission Stancette speaker stands

- Very basic wiring (no expensive speaker cables)

I have my eyes on a pair of used (but in perfect condition) B&W CDM7 NT's and would like to buy some mid/high range Marantz components later on (amp, cd-player and tuner since I now have a receiver but want to use it as a radio as well).

My questions:

1. Will my current setup be sufficient to run these speakers?

2. Is the speaker upgrade significant? Even if I would stick to my current setup? I take it that's a yes since I'm going from bookshelves with just a woofer and tweeter to a higher range brand floorstanding speaker with a Nautilus tweeter with a separate cone bass for midrange.

3. What kind of amp would you advise with these speakers? One of the lower range Marantz amps (like the PM5004)? I could get a pretty good deal on a Marantz PM-KI Pearl lite, would that be a huge difference? If so, in what way?

4. What's the difference between the entry level Marantz cd players and the premium stuff?

5. What kind of speaker cables should I use? Do these really make a difference?

6. And lastly: would you recommend a receiver rather than an amp? (since I'll be using it for radio as well). I could get a pretty good deal on a Marantz ST6003 tuner (unfortunately in black, would have preferred silver.

That's pretty much it. Hope you guys can help me out, I have some knowledge on this kind of stuff but not nearly as much as a hi-fi enthousiast.

Thanks in advance!

 

[relocated]

Your enquiry will benefit from you letting people know what your budget is, what your music preferences are and the size of room you listen in.

Do not concern yourself with expensive cables, they are a waste of money unless you have money to burn and have a need to 'impress' people with the money you've wasted.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Freditor - honestly, just go out there and listen.

Your speaker want is pretty fancy for a newbie - but I would suggest auditioning other equ with them.

This forum will only confuse you.

Find a dealer make some time and enjoy your quest for first hifi.....

 

[Overdose]

Freditor - honestly, just go out there and listen.

Your speaker want is pretty fancy for a newbie - but I would suggest auditioning other equ with them.

This forum will only confuse you.

Find a dealer make some time and enjoy your quest for first hifi.....

Is that not a bit arrogant or elitist, does being new to hifi preclude the use of better quality equipment?

Surely the goal is to find the best system within budget?

 

[Al ears]

Another classic one-liner from thompsonusb and pretty much a throw away one at that. Totally irrelevent.

However, the rest of his post is quite valid. If the OP can get to audition the B&W CDM7 NT's then I suggest he does to make sure they are going to work well in his listening room. This is essential before any other part of the upgrade stategy is considered.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Lol..... I swear you guys crack me up.....

The cm7 in their day a grand plus speaker, a mate if mine owns a pair.

To get the firing at there best requires good amplification.

We are talking not budget. It makes no difference were you start but a good understanding of were you are starting Will allow you to understand what sort of budget you'll be starting with.

C'Mon fellas, if I owe you money or something..... Surely we can sort it out in a peaceable way.

 

[Overdose]

Lol..... I swear you guys crack me up.....

The cm7 in their day a grand plus speaker, a mate if mine owns a pair.

To get the firing at there best requires good amplification.

We are talking not budget. It makes no difference were you start but a good understanding of were you are starting Will allow you to understand what sort of budget you'll be starting with.

C'Mon fellas, if I owe you money or something..... Surely we can sort it out in a peaceable way.

Ha, the irony!

The often quoted Behringer A500 is plenty powerful enough for the power section, it is also only £150 brand new.

All that is needed then, is a preamp.

 

[Freditor]

First off: thanks to all for the quick replies!

As far as budget goes: not really that relevant at the moment since the upgrade in amp would be for a later stage (somewhere next year). And my question was mainly if the higher budget equipment is worth it (or is it just for bragging rights?).

I don't consider myself to be a complete newbie since my current setup isn't really that bad and I don't see why I would go through several cheaper speakers first if I can get a good deal on these. Would cost me more money in the long run.

 

[Overdose]

First off: thanks to all for the quick replies!

As far as budget goes: not really that relevant at the moment since the upgrade in amp would be for a later stage (somewhere next year). And my question was mainly if the higher budget equipment is worth it (or is it just for bragging rights?).

I don't consider myself to be a complete newbie since my current setup isn't really that bad and I don't see why I would go through several cheaper speakers first if I can get a good deal on these. Would cost me more money in the long run.

Modern digital sources are about as good as they get. It is an unpopular state of affairs for many who have aspirations towards 'high end' products or who have already invested into expensive equipment. Likewise, amplification can be equally transparent at a reasonable cost, ie the aforementioned Behringer A500, whether or not you like the styling is another matter, but nontheless, sources and amplification do not require substantial investments for exceptionally good quality.

There is plenty of objective evidence to back up this standpoint, not so much, if anything to counter it other than anecdotal evidence.

The biggest gains when considering an upgrade are to be had with speakers, as they are not so easy to get right and are usually increasingly expensive as the quality rises.

If the speakers that you are looking to get were good when they were first brought to market, they will still be good now, but your amplifier needs to be able to do them justice. If they are not supplied with the power they need, the benefits will be lost.

 

[Freditor]

First off: thanks to all for the quick replies!

As far as budget goes: not really that relevant at the moment since the upgrade in amp would be for a later stage (somewhere next year). And my question was mainly if the higher budget equipment is worth it (or is it just for bragging rights?).

I don't consider myself to be a complete newbie since my current setup isn't really that bad and I don't see why I would go through several cheaper speakers first if I can get a good deal on these. Would cost me more money in the long run.

Modern digital sources are about as good as they get. It is an unpopular state of affairs for many who have aspirations towards 'high end' products or who have already invested into expensive equipment. Likewise, amplification can be equally transparent at a reasonable cost, ie the aforementioned Behringer A500, whether or not you like the styling is another matter, but nontheless, sources and amplification do not require substantial investments for exceptionally good quality.

There is plenty of objective evidence to back up this standpoint, not so much, if anything to counter it other than anecdotal evidence.

The biggest gains when considering an upgrade are to be had with speakers, as they are not so easy to get right and are usually increasingly expensive as the quality rises.

If the speakers that you are looking to get were good when they were first brought to market, they will still be good now, but your amplifier needs to be able to do them justice. If they are not supplied with the power they need, the benefits will be lost.

And again: thanks!

I'll read in to the Behringer A500, mainly asked questions about the Marantz because I heard their amps are some of the best on the market. And their entry levels are very affordable.

To give you an idea as to what I consider a good deal: I would be able to get the CDM7 NT's for about 500 euros (about 400 gbp).

I don't know if testing them is a good idea since the seller would have a different amp and my listening room would be different as well. I have a reasonably sized living room, that's one of the reasons why I'd prefer floorstanding speakers over bookshelves.

As to my earlier question about my current receiver being enough to power these speakers: any info on that? Do you think the upgrade in speakers only will be significant?

 

[Overdose]

As to my earlier question about my current receiver being enough to power these speakers: any info on that? Do you think the upgrade in speakers only will be significant?

I really couldn't comment on your receiver, but in the case of amplification generally, the more the merrier.

How much power you need will be determined by how loud you like to listen and the efficiency of the speakers, but an excess of power is much more preferable to not enough. Most of the differences between amplifiers manifest themselves at louder volumes, when some amps start to struggle with the demands of the speakers.

You might like to take a look HERE.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Buy the speakers and put them on the receiver, you may be pleasantly surprised.

Today's receivers have multiple amps in them fixed at their paper specs.

The old school receivers had one lump of an amp with a psu capable of driving the 5.1 speakers.

Set it for stereo, switch off unused channels - if you have not already - see how you get on.

Let us know.

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi there and welcome to the forum.

1. IMO. Your proposed speakers (ideally) need a good quality amp and careful matching to avoid them sounding a little on the bright side.

2. Yes, I think they are a significant upgrade, provided you get an amp that matches, to give a sound you like...they will be a bit ruthless of what is upstream of them.

3. I would be looking at a smooth sounding amp from the likes of Arcam, Sugden, Electrocompaniet, Pathos, Croft and Unison Research.

4. Would you consider a Streamer?.....I'm not that familiar with Marantz CDPs, but IMO. you need to double what you spend on a given component to deliver a worthwhile improvement. I don't subscribe to the view that all digital sources sound the same, and that any amp with enough power is all you need. Different companies have "house sounds", which you can only find out by demoing.

5. At this stage, use simple copper cables like QED 79 Strand, Linn K20/Linn Black (ebay) or Van Damme. There's time enough to mess about later with more expensive options. All available money should be ploughed into the system at this initial stage.

6. If you go for a Streamer (or Laptop/DAC), you can stream radio stations. Also, by going for a Receiver, you are greatly narrowing down the available amps.

 

[Freditor]

Bought the CDM7 NT's and... WOW! They sound amazing, even on my Onkyo!

Granted, I had a chance to sample some music at the sellers house and it sounded better there. He had a pretty decent mid-range Yamaha receiver that he might also sell in a couple of weeks.

Will be getting better cables tomorrow but won't spend to much on them. It's just that my current cables are pretty much the cheapest you can get. The seller recommended me cables mainly made out of copper with a bit of silver.

I'll have to do some more testing tomorrow but so far I'm extremely satisfied with my purchase. 500 euros seems like a really good deal for speakers of this quality. And they are indeed in perfect condition, seller was an audiophile that took real good care of his stuff.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Overdose]

Sounds like a good deal.

Nice one.

 

[Shanka]

Hi,

I have CDM1 NT speakers and as Cno said above I would advise to avoid any silvery cables as you will get harsh sounding top end, I use Van Damme ofc 4mm which I have found a good match, I also wire through both terminals which give a fuller sound but try for yourself.

With regards to amps the CDM's thrive off power, I have excellent results with Arcam, the bigger the better but the old alpha's give a big open and very smooth sound but still good with rock music, no harsh brightness either.

I have no idea of your budget but I have also been advised that amps by Bel Canto and Jolida work well with CDM,s but have not experienced myself. I will try and find which models if you are interested.

With regards interconnects Linn black are good and you can get them on ebay for £25 which is superb value, just put them in and forget about them, they do a great job.

Good luck and have fun !

 

[CnoEvil]

Will be getting better cables tomorrow but won't spend to much on them. It's just that my current cables are pretty much the cheapest you can get. The seller recommended me cables mainly made out of copper with a bit of silver.

Silver plated copper can sound a bit a aggressive, which will perk up a dull system, but may be too much with the Nautilus Tweeter. FWIW. I'd stick with all copper from the likes of Atlas and Linn.....but borrow some to try before purchasing.

 

[Freditor]

Went with all copper cables, I can definitely hear a difference compared to my old cables.

Had a quick chat with the guy from the hifi-store about amps, he wouldn't go with Marantz for these particular speakers but rather a Cambridge audio amp. What would you guys recommend? Marantz, Cambridge audio, Yamaha...

Also, are there any disadvantages to getting a receiver instead of an amp with a separate tuner?

 

[CnoEvil]

Went with all copper cables, I can definitely hear a difference compared to my old cables.

Had a quick chat with the guy from the hifi-store about amps, he wouldn't go with Marantz for these particular speakers but rather a Cambridge audio amp. What would you guys recommend? Marantz, Cambridge audio, Yamaha...

Also, are there any disadvantages to getting a receiver instead of an amp with a separate tuner?

What other brands does he sell (eg. Creek or Arcam) and what are you prepared to spend?

Can you give a link to their website?

I have already mentioned that going for a Receiver will greatly narrow your choice of amplification.

 

[Freditor]

Went with all copper cables, I can definitely hear a difference compared to my old cables.

Had a quick chat with the guy from the hifi-store about amps, he wouldn't go with Marantz for these particular speakers but rather a Cambridge audio amp. What would you guys recommend? Marantz, Cambridge audio, Yamaha...

Also, are there any disadvantages to getting a receiver instead of an amp with a separate tuner?

What other brands does he sell (eg. Creek or Arcam) and what are you prepared to spend?

Can you give a link to their website?

I have already mentioned that going for a Receiver will greatly narrow your choice of amplification.

Note that I live in Belgium so this site probably won't make much sense to you ;-)

But you can see all the brands they have in stock:

www.audiovsion.be

Budget: definitely under 1000 euros. Found a Marantz PM-KI for just 749 euro which seems like a very good deal. But if Marantz doesn't really match with these speakers...

 

[Overdose]

Try the Class-A 100 D3 from XTZ.

Bags of power, although over budget.

 

[CnoEvil]

Note that I live in Belgium so this site probably won't make much sense to you ;-)

But you can see all the brands they have in stock:

www.audiovsion.be

Budget: definitely under 1000 euros. Found a Marantz PM-KI for just 749 euro which seems like a very good deal. But if Marantz doesn't really match with these speakers...

The only brand that I reckon might work would be Harman Kardon*; though I think you would be better off looking for a smaller specialist dealer.

There are a few members on here from Belgium that might help....Doc for example.

I would start a thread asking for decent dealers in Belgium and giving your rough location.

*EDIT. You should also try Advance Acoustic XA 160, which has 45W in Class A: http://www.audiovision.be/

 

[Freditor]

Note that I live in Belgium so this site probably won't make much sense to you ;-)

But you can see all the brands they have in stock:

www.audiovsion.be

Budget: definitely under 1000 euros. Found a Marantz PM-KI for just 749 euro which seems like a very good deal. But if Marantz doesn't really match with these speakers...

The only brand that I reckon might work would be Harman Kardon*; though I think you would be better off looking for a smaller specialist dealer.

There are a few members on here from Belgium that might help....Doc for example.

I would start a thread asking for decent dealers in Belgium and giving your rough location.

*EDIT. You should also try Advance Acoustic XA 160, which has 45W in Class A: http://www.audiovision.be/

Hmm... I thought the CDM7's were a very easy to match pair of speakers?

About the PM-KI pearl: has anyone had any experience matching them with B&W's?

Also found a specialist dealer near me, will ask for some info there as well.

 

[CnoEvil]

Hmm... I thought the CDM7's were a very easy to match pair of speakers?

About the PM-KI pearl: has anyone had any experience matching them with B&W's?

Also found a specialist dealer near me, will ask for some info there as well.

All we can do is give advice, which is based on our experience and personal perpective. Until you hear your speakers on the end of a variety of amps, it's all academic.

 

[DocG]

Note that I live in Belgium so this site probably won't make much sense to you ;-)

The only brand that I reckon might work would be Harman Kardon*; though I think you would be better off looking for a smaller specialist dealer.

There are a few members on here from Belgium that might help....Doc for example.

I would start a thread asking for decent dealers in Belgium and giving your rough location.

Did anyone call me?

Hi Freditor, if I can point you to some interesting hifi-dealers where you live, I'd be glad to help! Whereabouts do you live?