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Nait 5i rubbish with I touch

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Anonymous

Guest
Eddie Pound: An iPod is "CD quality" so long as the files are lossless. The compromise can be in the DAC and subsequent analogue circuitry will not be as good as the best CD players, although I still believe they are quite listenable..

Eddie - Sorry to be pedantic but an iPod in itself is not "CD quality", but any lossless files thereon (or at least 320kps) are "CD Quality".

But I wholeheartedly agree that an iPod is quite listenable, I have the Touch and iPhone and they sound very very good with my Shure E420 noise-cancelling earphones. After all, that is what the iPods are primarily made for - listening to music via earphones.

I also agree that the compromise is in the internal DAC, hence I bypass that when I want to listen to iTunes on my hi fi.
 
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Anonymous

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JoelSim:

They also sound pretty dire through a dock

It is perfectly acceptable for people like JoelSim to express their opinion of what an iPod sounds like when connected to his hi fi via presumably a 3.5mm jack, or via a dock, but I wish he would also at the same time qualify his statement by saying there are however much better but more expensive ways to play files from an iPod or from iTunes.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
How do you define CD quality?

I define it as uncompressed PCM at 16 bit / 44.1kHz (I think - well lossless).

I agree that iTunes by default is less than CD quality - i.e. 128 or 256 AAC.
 

JoelSim

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They also sound pretty dire through a dock but there are however much better but more expensive ways to play files from an iPod or from iTunes.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
JoelSim:
They also sound pretty dire through a dock but there are however much better but more expensive ways to play files from an iPod or from iTunes.

Joel,

What iPod, files, dock, etc?
 

JoelSim

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Aug 24, 2007
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iPod mini, Apple Universal dock, monster cable, normal files. And yes I know it's MP3 quality rather than lossless but it was like listening to tunes through a closed door. I would say chalk and cheese but it was much worse. iPods also sound very brittle and harsh through earphones (£30 Sennheisers not the crappy buds supplied by Apple). I can only listen to one for about fifteen minutes and even then find that it's putting me off music.

The mini was stolen and I got a Nano to replace it from the insurance. Should have taken the money as I've only listened to it about twice. Rubbish sound, and a right palava to rip CDs to
 
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Anonymous

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Just to clarify I wasn't making a sweeping statement that ipod's are rubbish, simply that if you bypass the headphones and instead attempt to amplify the sound by bypassing the dac on the ipod via an rca cable, then the end result is a very low volume which lacks depth, detail and has basically become lifeless. Therefore I don't see the benefit in purchasing very good speakers and amps etc if you intend to use an ipod as the source via this simple route, it's a complete waste of money and is it the sound quality bearable? yes it's bearable but defeats the object of purchasing hi fi seperates.
 
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Anonymous

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As I've said, the iPod sounds fine, but I also think it is not worth spending much on it.

Ripping lossless is free - just change the settings - and a line-out cable is under a tenner on eBay.

Beyond that there is nothing to gain - sod expensive cables and rDocks, etc.

I don't even agree with the Wadia because once you're in that price range you may as well just use a proper computer-based HiFi source, which can potentially blow many CD players into the weeds.

The iPod is a portable device, so the interface becomes tiring - i.e. you cannot see the screen from the sofa.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I've got a touch and it's okay through the hi fi, but not great, I have a shuffle too and it's excellent. However why would anyone want to connect an iPod to a hi fi system. Far better to use iTunes, which has to be the best media player on the planet.

I have an Apple TV, a Mac Mini, a Macbook Pro and an iMac and all sound like very good if not the best CD players. I control them all with my Touch and use it to send emails etc.

If you're using a Windows Machine then £50 spent on an M-Audio Transit will give you a very good CD player provided your Amp can cope with the little bit of RF there is on the output, if it can you'll have an amazing CD player. Dolphin Music do them.

Ash
 

JoelSim

New member
Aug 24, 2007
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Ashley James:I've got a touch and it's okay through the hi fi, but not great, I have a shuffle too and it's excellent. However why would anyone want to connect an iPod to a hi fi system. Far better to use iTunes, which has to be the best media player on the planet. I have an Apple TV, a Mac Mini, a Macbook Pro and an iMac and all sound like very good if not the best CD players. I control them all with my Touch and use it to send emails etc. If you're using a Windows Machine then £50 spent on an M-Audio Transit will give you a very good CD player provided your Amp can cope with the little bit of RF there is on the output, if it can you'll have an amazing CD player. Dolphin Music do them. Ash

Alternatively you could just pop a CD in the tray, sit back and relax in the full knowledge that you aren't going to waste time ripping music to a laptop, which all gets lost when the computer invariably fails. Or you could store it on a hard drive and waste some more time, money and space.

Funny how convenient things end up being less convenient
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Cd players fail to and in fact approximately it takes less than 2 mins to rip a cd losslessly. Of course computers can go wrong but cd players are hardly infallible are they
 

chebby

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2008
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Ashley James:

If you're using a Windows Machine then £50 spent on an M-Audio Transit will give you a very good CD player provided your Amp can cope with the little bit of RF there is on the output, if it can you'll have an amazing CD player.

Err, no thanks.

I'll pass on the RF and stick with USB into my DAC and lossless files from iTunes if I want CD quality thanks. Even 256kbps AAC downloads and good quality internet radio sound better than what the OP is describing (and Ashley's "little bit of RF").

I can turn the volume right up (far higher than I would ever use normally) with any source connected (and switched on) and not get any RF noise or hum or anything else untoward and not get 'pants' either.

With the appropriate 16bit/44.1khz settings on Quicktime audio preferences, 'no sounds' set on Windows audio, and 'sound enhancer' and 'equalizer' switched off in iTunes, I am getting a pretty good sound that easily meets/exceeds the quality of the CD section of my Solo-Mini (itself equipped with a Wolfson WM8740 DAC and based on the CD73) when playing lossless.

I could (now with the new DAC) use our iMac 20" with optical but prefer to use that connection for the Panasonic DVD/HDD optical digital audio out for higher quality DVD sounds and Freeview radio.

I did do the comparison between iTunes lossless on our iMac (optical connection to the DAC) and the existing laptop/USB set-up and found very little difference to tempt me to swap everything around. (The £3.93 optical mini-jack adaptor I bought to try this was a bit of a waste but may come in useful one day.)

Joel can you keep a complete offsite backup of all your music, lossless quality, with artwork, on something the size of a *** packet?
 

jaxwired

Well-known member
Feb 7, 2009
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JoelSim:

Alternatively you could just pop a CD in the tray, sit back and relax in the full knowledge that you aren't going to waste time ripping music to a laptop, which all gets lost when the computer invariably fails. Or you could store it on a hard drive and waste some more time, money and space.

Funny how convenient things end up being less convenient

Right on brother! That's why I buy all my music on CD. I never pay to download. I want the CD period.
 

jaxwired

Well-known member
Feb 7, 2009
283
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hi fi newbie:

Cd players fail to and in fact approximately it takes less than 2 mins to rip a cd losslessly. Of course computers can go wrong but cd players are hardly infallible are they

Uhmmm....the comparison was compact discs versus computer files. One is a permanent medium.
 

chebby

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Jun 2, 2008
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jaxwired:Uhmmm....the comparison was compact discs versus computer files. One is a permanent medium.

Yes those computer files are pretty robust especially when you have a sensible and regular backup regime and keep a copy at work (or in a friend's/relatives house) for safe keeping in case of fire/flood computer failure.

They will be even more robust when Solid-State HD becomes cheaper and more capacious soon.

Bit like photos and negs. They are pretty frail and can fade over time. They are prone to damage from bad storage and family memories can be lost/damaged with any of a whole assortment of household disasters.

On a computer (again if backed up sensibly) they are far safer and never fade. They can be kept on any number of machines/external HDs and bulk transferred in seconds or minutes and printed in photographic quality at will.
 
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Anonymous

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My response was to to joel who wrote that you could simply pop a cd into the cd player and it was all of the convenience without the downside of the computer failing.
 
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Anonymous

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jaxwired:

Uhmmm....the comparison was compact discs versus computer files. One is a permanent medium.

Ummm..... CDs have digital files written onto them, digital files on a PC/Mac are written to, erm discs, in fact platters of them in the hard drive. Both are permanent medium.
 
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Anonymous

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JoelSim:

Alternatively you could just pop a CD in the tray, sit back and relax in the full knowledge that you aren't going to waste time ripping music to a laptop, which all gets lost when the computer invariably fails. Or you could store it on a hard drive and waste some more time, money and space.

Funny how convenient things end up being less convenient

I have a hi fi system at home, a separate older system in my office and a mini-system in my study. All are connected to 3 Apple Airport Expresses and 2 DACmagic optical outputs (the mini system is fed analogue direct from AE).

I only have a 10 year old £1000 CD player, 1 iTunes library on my laptop. I can play all my lossless files in the lounge, in the study or in the office, all remotely controlled from my iPhone, on which I also have lossless files so can enjoy those on the nice sould system in my car.

I back up my private, work and music files onto two external hard drives with one kept off site.

The money I saved from not having to upgrade my old CD player or buy a decent second one for the second system has been spent on DACMagic and AEs, and still enough left over to buy a stack of CDs for ripping to lossless.

I have my favourite music EVERYWHERE I go, Now THAT is convenience!
 
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Anonymous

Guest
chebby:

With the appropriate 16bit/44.1khz settings on Quicktime audio preferences, 'no sounds' set on Windows audio, and 'sound enhancer' and 'equalizer' switched off in iTunes, I am getting a pretty good sound that easily meets/exceeds the quality of the CD section of my Solo-Mini (itself equipped with a Wolfson WM8740 DAC and based on the CD73) when playing lossless.

Bravo chebby! I compared my Audiolab/Cyrus systems (both with the DACMagics) to a friend's £900 Cyrus CD6SE connected to those same systems. and to be honest, although there are subtle differences, we find it difficult to say which is better!
 

jaxwired

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Feb 7, 2009
283
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AKL:jaxwired:

Uhmmm....the comparison was compact discs versus computer files. One is a permanent medium.

Ummm..... CDs have digital files written onto them, digital files on a PC/Mac are written to, erm discs, in fact platters of them in the hard drive. Both are permanent medium.

Hard drives fail. CD's don't. One is massively reliable, the other is notoriously unreliable, but yet you find them comparable. I guess we can disagree on that...
 

idc

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Jan 2, 2008
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With the Wadia itransport and decent phono cables you may as well have your computer connected to your amp as the Wadia bypasses the ipods volume and DAC and goes straight to the files. But at £350 ish plus decent cables it is expensive (relatively speaking). The cheaper option is the Russ Andrews GQ-24 cable (£47) which bypasses the volume but not the DAC in the ipod. It is also recommended (by an Apple employee as well) to go for the version with the phono connection over the mini jack;



The ipod does suit headphones. Mine via the cable into my amp and headphones sounds brilliant to me. There is no problem with the volume which is controlled by the amp and I only turn the control slightly higher than I did before when using a traditional CDP and amp. I like a lively sound, so I think that is why I like the sound of ipods. To the OP, I would recommend the GQ-24 cable, if you don't like it you can always return it.
 
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Anonymous

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jaxwired:[

Hard drives fail. CD's don't. One is massively reliable, the other is notoriously unreliable, but yet you find them comparable. I guess we can disagree on that...

I was not referring to failure rate or indeed how CDs get scratched, stepped on, deteriorate over time from degradation and oxidation or just worn out from frequent and careless handling... I was merely making reference to the fact that CDs and Discs platters in a hard drive are both "permanent" medium contrary to what you said earlier. I do change one of the hard drives every 3 to 4 years or so, but cheaper than buying a complete set of 100 odd CDs.
 

idc

Well-known member
Jan 2, 2008
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jaxwired:

Hard drives fail. CD's don't. One is massively reliable, the other is notoriously unreliable, but yet you find them comparable. I guess we can disagree on that...

Hard drives fail, CD players fail, computer files get viruses, CDs can be faullty and jump and skip, amps pack in, cables snap at the connection, speakers blow, cassettes get mangled, vinyl warps and jumps, indeed there is nothing that involves hifi that I have not had to return, exchange or replace at one time or another.

Jaxwired (and I am so tempting fate here so fingers crossed) I have never had a hard drive fail, but I have returned a number of faulty CDs, cassettes, a CD player, an amp.....................................................

 
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Anonymous

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Eddie Pound:
Joel,

iPods certainly aren't dire.

When used correctly....

...through a pair of headphones on the train?ÿ
 
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Anonymous

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Octopo:Eddie Pound:

Joel,

iPods certainly aren't dire.

When used correctly....

...through a pair of headphones on the train?

... better and more popular with fellow commuters than trying to drag a hi fi rack full of equipment onto the platform and then into the train at rush hour, then finding no power conditiioners to plug into... or indeed mains supply..... bloody nuisance and a waste of my precious time. They should put warning posters in front of the station.
 

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