NaimUniti 2 speaker pairing agony

[hybridauth_Twitter_2580542364]

A point that's been made in the past by other posters on this forum and is a very valid one, is do let your listening room's acoustics decide the speakers first, then (ideally) choose the partnering source and amp that'll suit the room and the speakers afterwards. I appreciate that it might be too late for the second part of that statement!

The size and shape of your room, the necessary positioning of your furniture within it and the materials (i.e. hard & reflective surfaces like wooden floors and large windows vs. a room with thick carpeting & soft furnishings) will have a big affect on the desired end result.

There seems to be a current trend (perhaps driven by aesthetics) towards floorstanders, but there are many British homes with rooms that'll make a hearty floorstander sound awful with boomy overblown bass (even though it may have sounded great in a large shop demo room with speakers positioned 8 feet away from rear and side walls).

So I'd really recommend giving consideration to questions like;

What's the size & shape of my room? Are the size & sensitivity of the speakers and amp suited to the room?

Where will my speakers have to be positioned? How far from the rear & side walls will they need to be?

If the speakers are ported, are they rear-ported? How will this affect the sound if you try to duplicate the positioning in relation to the wall in the shop?

Think about these questions and feed the answers to your (hopefully well-informed) dealer. Frankly if your dealer hasn't asked these sort of questions I'd be questioning their motive. Are they just interested in selling you boxes quickly, or are they genuinely interested in making you a long-term happy customer who will enjoy his investment for many years to come? Their degree of interest in these topics may help you decide who should be getting your cash.

Thanks for the good advice.

I've taken time out to think this through and committed to nothing at this stage, so anything is an option regarding source/amp and speakers.

I wouldn't say that the dealer was not pushing to sell, but he certainly didn't go into the depth of questioning that you have here.

I am concerned about the accoustics of the room (see my other reply just now) and the system does have to fit the room (not the other way round). The speakers will need to be placed quite close to walls (not 1-2m out as they were in the demo room). It is a hard floor and large windows with no curtains; hard surfaces a-plenty. Stating the obvious, no demo room is that room.

In purely practical terms, I think I need to find a way to narrow down the options to 2 or 3 pairs and then work out how to borrow them (or buy online and benefit from the distance selling regulations) form the various dealers at the same so that I can audition at home in the actual room! The ATC dealer I contacted was happy to tell me that he had no operational demo room, so why don't I just buy them from him online and send them back if they don't suit. As much as I baulked at the suggestion initially, it's not sounding so daft right now. Hmm...

 

[CnoEvil]

Very good point.

First and foremost this system needs to play classical, especially solo piano and orchestral with piano (my son is a pianist-in-training and this system will be in the piano room).

Other strong preferences (in this order of preference) are guitar/vocal (think Damien Rice, Lisa Hannigan, José González), folk (Fleet Foxes, Wild Beasts), then current fads like Elbow. I'm not a bass-seeker as such, but like a bit of warmth.

oThe room is about 4.5m x 5.5m with a vaulted ceiling rising up to 4.2m on ine side (i.e. there's quite a lot of volume m3 in the space).

In that case you should look at Harbeth (P3ESR)...which may need a sub (or a bigger Harbeth), but could well give you what you are looking for.

 

[plastic penguin]

Buy the 5 star speakers. Don't settle for anything less than 5 stars because other audiophiles will never respect you and your OCD will not let you sleep ever again. If you buy B&W no one will like you, so preferably buy other 5 star speakers like those KEF LS50, they are a hit! Make sure you buy speakers with most reviews and google search results, otherwise you will have nothing to read for the following months after your purchase. Whats the point buying an obscure brand no one cares about.

In that case dump your 4 star Kandy s###e and I'll respect you more. *kiss3*

 

[Electro]

If you are prepared to buy second hand then this pair of QLN signature splitfield speakers with external crossovers sound wonderful , I know because I still own a pair and have used them with many different amplifiers in a second system .

They use very high quality and expensive scanspeak drive units and the quality of finish is superb . they were about £1600 with stands when new in 1996 .

If you make an offer you might be lucky .*smile*

The seller has no connection to me *smile*

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161463480504?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2661&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

[CnoEvil]

If you are prepared to buy second hand then this pair of QLN signature splitfield speakers with external crossovers sound wonderful , I know because I still own a pair and have used them with many different amplifiers in a second system .

They use very high quality and expensive scanspeak drive units and the quality of finish is superb . they were about £1600 with stands when new in 1996 .

If you make an offer you might be lucky .*smile*

The seller has no connection to me *smile*

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161463480504?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2661&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

What an interesting suggestion...I wonder how they would sound with Naim?

 

[BigH]

Do you have the NaimUniti 2 already? If not why have you chosen that amp.?

 

[CnoEvil]

Do you have the NaimUniti 2 already? If not why have you chosen that amp.?

Good question....I was taking it that the amp was bought, but it's best to clarify.

 

[hybridauth_Twitter_2580542364]

Do you have the NaimUniti 2 already? If not why have you chosen that amp.?

No, I have not bought it yet.

In terms of a little more background, I am looking for a system that delivers very high convenience and usability for the benefit of the people who will use it at least 50% of the time (i.e. my son and wife). It needs to play from NAS (mostly ALAC at CD or master download 24/96 quality), CD, DAB / internet radio (live classical concerts), Apple Mac connected by USB or optical TosLink streaming from sources such as Qobuz (16/44.1) and the Berliner Philharmonica Digital Concert Hall.

I started out looking to demo a Cyrus Lyric; on paper it looked like a good place to start. Finding one of those in a demo room has proven difficult so far (i.e. I've not seen or heard one yet). My local dealer (SSAV) offered the demo of the NaimUniti 2 as a 'better' alternative (since that's all they carry in stock that is comparable in price and features). What else is out there?

For speakers I think (but happy to be wrong) that floorstanders are unlikely to work well because space towards the floor is at a premium and the normal listening position is at desk-sitting height (actually piano), where the ears are at about 110-120cm from the floor. For stand mounters this would probably mean a 70cm stand.

So, the features are important as is the usability. For that reason, a high-end one box system does appeal (but I'm open minded...).

I'm prepared to go up to £4k-ish for the system if it's worth it, but equally prepared to accept that it might be a waste of good money for this kind of system and should aim lower to get the convenience and usability.

This thing is not normally going to be played loud, so it needs to sound good at low to mid listening levels.

Thanks

 

[hybridauth_Twitter_2580542364]

In that case, for the music you want the system for, I would add to your source/amplifier list:

If possible, I suggest you try a Linn Sneaky as a source (though you can't connect anything to it, so maybe not). It does a lot of what you want and sounds great.

For amplifiers, you might look at Sugden A21, Croft Integrated, Electro ECI-3 and Pathos Classic One

As said above, I would look at Harbeth (and Spendor Classic series) for speakers.

Thanks for the alternatives. Looking into them now...

 

[Vladimir]

Big thanks to Cno and PP for the lipstic marks. I feel much better now despite being a 4 star member. *drinks*

 

[CnoEvil]

In that case, for the music you want the system for, I would add to your source/amplifier list:

If possible, I suggest you try a Linn Sneaky as a source (though you can't connect anything to it, so maybe not). It does a lot of what you want and sounds great.

For amplifiers, you might look at Sugden A21, Croft Integrated, Electro ECI-3 and Pathos Classic One

As said above, I would look at Harbeth (and Spendor Classic series) for speakers.

Thanks for the alternatives. Looking into them now...

Linn Majik DSM + Kef LS50 / R300 might also work for you....It's a combination I've heard many times and has great connectivity.

 

[CnoEvil]

Big thanks to Cno and PP for the lipstic marks. I feel much better now despite being a 4 star member. *drinks*

We all need to feel loved.

 

[CnoEvil]

Do you have the NaimUniti 2 already? If not why have you chosen that amp.?

No, I have not bought it yet.

In terms of a little more background, I am looking for a system that delivers very high convenience and usability for the benefit of the people who will use it at least 50% of the time (i.e. my son and wife). It needs to play from NAS (mostly ALAC at CD or master download 24/96 quality), CD, DAB / internet radio (live classical concerts), Apple Mac connected by USB or optical TosLink streaming from sources such as Qobuz (16/44.1) and the Berliner Philharmonica Digital Concert Hall.

I started out looking to demo a Cyrus Lyric; on paper it looked like a good place to start. Finding one of those in a demo room has proven difficult so far (i.e. I've not seen or heard one yet). My local dealer (SSAV) offered the demo of the NaimUniti 2 as a 'better' alternative (since that's all they carry in stock that is comparable in price and features). What else is out there?

For speakers I think (but happy to be wrong) that floorstanders are unlikely to work well because space towards the floor is at a premium and the normal listening position is at desk-sitting height (actually piano), where the ears are at about 110-120cm from the floor. For stand mounters this would probably mean a 70cm stand.

So, the features are important as is the usability. For that reason, a high-end one box system does appeal (but I'm open minded...).

I'm prepared to go up to £4k-ish for the system if it's worth it, but equally prepared to accept that it might be a waste of good money for this kind of system and should aim lower to get the convenience and usability.

This thing is not normally going to be played loud, so it needs to sound good at low to mid listening levels.

Thanks

In that case, for the music you want to listen to, I would add to your source/amplifier list:

If possible, I suggest you try a Linn Sneaky as a source (though you can't connect anything to it, so maybe not). It does a lot of what you want and sounds great.

For amplifiers, you might look at Sugden A21, Croft Integrated, Electro ECI-3 and Pathos Classic One

As said above, I would look at Harbeth (and Spendor Classic series) for speakers.

 

[Leeps]

From your description of the listening room it's likely that it will make the sound brighter and sharper than any demo room, so if you listen to a system that already leaned towards brightness, it could sound overly harsh.

if you need to place speakers close to a wall, I'd say that should also be a key factor in organising your shortlist. Either sealed speakers (such as ATC SCM 11) could do the trick or another suggestion could be the Neat Motive SX1. It's bass port fires downwards, but as it's quite a diminutive speaker (for a floorstander) the entire speaker is angled upwards firing the sound up into the room. Another possibility are the Guru Juńiors or Guru QM10 mk2's which are designed to be placed near a wall.

This could be handy given your listening position and the vaulted ceiling. However, as to partnering kit, other posters will be more knowledgeable than myself, although your room may dictate that the amp's ability to control the bass could be an even greater factor than in other room types.

Certainly given the dynamics of your room, some kind of home demo would be even more important than usual.

 

[ErwinC]

Was there much difference between the CM5 and CM6? They have identical specifications and as far a i know they use the same speaker units.

BTW, i tested the Dali Rubicon 2 with my Naim UnitiLite and really liked it. I also tested the CM5 S2 in my setup and found the sound very different from the Dali Rubicon 2.

 

[ErwinC]

Was there much difference between the CM5 and CM6? They have identical specifications and as far a i know they use the same speaker units.

BTW, i tested the Dali Rubicon 2 with my Naim UnitiLite and really liked it. I also tested the CM5 S2 in my setup and found the sound very different from the Dali Rubicon 2.

Nobody?

 

[hybridauth_Twitter_2580542364]

Was there much difference between the CM5 and CM6? They have identical specifications and as far a i know they use the same speaker units.

BTW, i tested the Dali Rubicon 2 with my Naim UnitiLite and really liked it. I also tested the CM5 S2 in my setup and found the sound very different from the Dali Rubicon 2.

To my ears there was quite a difference between the CM5 and CM6. The CM6's were a discernable level up in terms of clarity; they found a whole load more detail and brought it forward compared to the CM5's. I'd go as far as to say the CM5's sounded a little muddy by comparison. There probably wasn't much between them in terms of low-end / bass performance.

As I said before, the pair of CM6's I tried certainly behaved as if they were more sensitive than that CM5's (I had to turn the volume down), although I checked the specs on the B&W site afterwards and they are supposed to be the same

 

[Vladimir]

To my ears there was quite a difference between the CM5 and CM6. The CM6's were a discernable level up in terms of clarity; they found a whole load more detail and brought it forward compared to the CM5's. I'd go as far as to say the CM5's sounded a little muddy by comparison. There probably wasn't much between them in terms of low-end / bass performance.

As I said before, the pair of CM6's I tried certainly behaved as if they were more sensitive than that CM5's (I had to turn the volume down), although I checked the specs on the B&W site afterwards and they are supposed to be the same

Of course you heard more clarity. The tweeter is closer to ear height on top of the cabinet (possibly even tuned bit brighter).

 

[SimonW99]

From your description of the listening room it's likely that it will make the sound brighter and sharper than any demo room, so if you listen to a system that already leaned towards brightness, it could sound overly harsh.

if you need to place speakers close to a wall, I'd say that should also be a key factor in organising your shortlist. Either sealed speakers (such as ATC SCM 11) could do the trick or another suggestion could be the Neat Motive SX1. It's bass port fires downwards, but as it's quite a diminutive speaker (for a floorstander) the entire speaker is angled upwards firing the sound up into the room. Another possibility are the Guru Juńiors or Guru QM10 mk2's which are designed to be placed near a wall.

This could be handy given your listening position and the vaulted ceiling. However, as to partnering kit, other posters will be more knowledgeable than myself, although your room may dictate that the amp's ability to control the bass could be an even greater factor than in other room types.

Certainly given the dynamics of your room, some kind of home demo would be even more important than usual.

I am thinking of changing from an old 66 / 306 quad set up circa late 80's which play through Acoustic Energy AE1's. Its not a bad set up, but time has moved on and I want a streaming solution. I may retain the AE1's as they were rebuilt by AE last year with a new driver and updated crossovers and I still think will hold their own.

Yesterday I listened to The Linn Majik DSM with Linn Majik 140's thinking them an ideal set up I would order, but was really disappointed. I don't doubt the technical prowess, but the sound across a wide range of genres was really just, well, extremely contained and yes very boring. A good example was Ed Sheerans Bloodstream, which as a track thrives on its beat. Unfortunately there was no beat... it was as if the set up had stripped the song of several tracks. The adviser did say you could listen to Linn for hours because it was not demanding, which may well be correct, but it was just incredibly dull to my ears. I was really disappointed.

I then listened to a lower level Rega CD amp set up with Neat Motive sx1's and it was much better, albeit coming direct from CD as opposed to being streamed lossless from a NAS.

I then listened to the Naim Uniti 2 which we paired with the Neat Motive sx1's . It was immediately much more musical and interesting than the Linn and a level up from the Rega. The music came alive straight away and the SX1's seemed to work well with the Naim equipment. They are a nice compact floorstander with a downward firing bass port so can go closer to walls.

I think I will go with the Uniti2 and set it up with my AE1's and my old technics platter. I can then compare it to the quad ( hopefully a success!) if that all works I would like to try the AE1's against the SX'1s and the the scm 11's if i can order and return. What was your final conclusion and which ATC dealer did you use?

 

[Esra]

System Audio Pandion 2 do pair very good with Naim.If you can give them a try.

 

[CnoEvil]

Yesterday I listened to The Linn Majik DSM with Linn Majik 140's thinking them an ideal set up I would order, but was really disappointed. I don't doubt the technical prowess, but the sound across a wide range of genres was really just, well, extremely contained and yes very boring. A good example was Ed Sheerans Bloodstream, which as a track thrives on its beat. Unfortunately there was no beat... it was as if the set up had stripped the song of several tracks. The adviser did say you could listen to Linn for hours because it was not demanding, which may well be correct, but it was just incredibly dull to my ears. I was really disappointed.

That is exactly how I find Linn speakers....and why I recommended trying Kef R Series with the Majik DSM. If you have only heard the MDSM with the 140s, I would try it with some R500s, before committing.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Very sound advice from leeps.it might have saved me a few quid in years gone by if I bought what my listening environment would allow for and not what I thought I needed at the time....I really loved my m/a silver rx6 's but just not what you need in a 4x3 mtr room in an upper flat.

 

[SimonW99]

From your description of the listening room it's likely that it will make the sound brighter and sharper than any demo room, so if you listen to a system that already leaned towards brightness, it could sound overly harsh.

if you need to place speakers close to a wall, I'd say that should also be a key factor in organising your shortlist. Either sealed speakers (such as ATC SCM 11) could do the trick or another suggestion could be the Neat Motive SX1. It's bass port fires downwards, but as it's quite a diminutive speaker (for a floorstander) the entire speaker is angled upwards firing the sound up into the room. Another possibility are the Guru Juńiors or Guru QM10 mk2's which are designed to be placed near a wall.

This could be handy given your listening position and the vaulted ceiling. However, as to partnering kit, other posters will be more knowledgeable than myself, although your room may dictate that the amp's ability to control the bass could be an even greater factor than in other room types.

Certainly given the dynamics of your room, some kind of home demo would be even more important than usual.

I am thinking of changing from an old 66 / 306 quad set up circa late 80's which play through Acoustic Energy AE1's. Its not a bad set up, but time has moved on and I want a streaming solution. I may retain the AE1's as they were rebuilt by AE last year with a new driver and updated crossovers and I still think will hold their own.

Yesterday I listened to The Linn Majik DSM with Linn Majik 140's thinking them an ideal set up I would order, but was really disappointed. I don't doubt the technical prowess, but the sound across a wide range of genres was really just, well, extremely contained and yes very boring. A good example was Ed Sheerans Bloodstream, which as a track thrives on its beat. Unfortunately there was no beat... it was as if the set up had stripped the song of several tracks. The adviser did say you could listen to Linn for hours because it was not demanding, which may well be correct, but it was just incredibly dull to my ears. I was really disappointed.

I then listened to a lower level Rega CD amp set up with Neat Motive sx1's and it was much better, albeit coming direct from CD as opposed to being streamed lossless from a NAS.

I then listened to the Naim Uniti 2 which we paired with the Neat Motive sx1's . It was immediately much more musical and interesting than the Linn and a level up from the Rega. The music came alive straight away and the SX1's seemed to work well with the Naim equipment. They are a nice compact floorstander with a downward firing bass port so can go closer to walls.

I think I will go with the Uniti2 and set it up with my AE1's and my old technics platter. I can then compare it to the quad ( hopefully a success!) if that all works I would like to try the AE1's against the SX'1s and the the scm 11's if i can order and return. What was your final conclusion and which ATC dealer did you use?

Now I am thoroughly confused, I went to another dealer yesterday who had a Linn Majik Set up with the 140's and can do a Uniti 2 demo, so I am booking in. He is suggesting Spendor 5's or PMC 23's with the Uniti, but would also be interesing to see how they fare with the Linn 140's.

Having said what I said above I was able to listen to the Majik and the 140's again, and they sounded totally different to the first set up at the other dealer...aghhh. Ed sheerans bloodstream had base and detail that were so missing at the previous dealer. The dealer suggested that when I listened before it could be that the space optimisation had not be set up correctly with the original set up and it makes a huge difference.

I now have to hear the units back to back. HI have a non Linn dealer happy to lend the Uniti 2 for the weekend, just need to find an accomodating Linn dealer prepared to do the same and then I will have a proper in room comparison!

 

[SimonW99]

From your description of the listening room it's likely that it will make the sound brighter and sharper than any demo room, so if you listen to a system that already leaned towards brightness, it could sound overly harsh.

if you need to place speakers close to a wall, I'd say that should also be a key factor in organising your shortlist. Either sealed speakers (such as ATC SCM 11) could do the trick or another suggestion could be the Neat Motive SX1. It's bass port fires downwards, but as it's quite a diminutive speaker (for a floorstander) the entire speaker is angled upwards firing the sound up into the room. Another possibility are the Guru Juńiors or Guru QM10 mk2's which are designed to be placed near a wall.

This could be handy given your listening position and the vaulted ceiling. However, as to partnering kit, other posters will be more knowledgeable than myself, although your room may dictate that the amp's ability to control the bass could be an even greater factor than in other room types.

Certainly given the dynamics of your room, some kind of home demo would be even more important than usual.

I am thinking of changing from an old 66 / 306 quad set up circa late 80's which play through Acoustic Energy AE1's. Its not a bad set up, but time has moved on and I want a streaming solution. I may retain the AE1's as they were rebuilt by AE last year with a new driver and updated crossovers and I still think will hold their own.

Yesterday I listened to The Linn Majik DSM with Linn Majik 140's thinking them an ideal set up I would order, but was really disappointed. I don't doubt the technical prowess, but the sound across a wide range of genres was really just, well, extremely contained and yes very boring. A good example was Ed Sheerans Bloodstream, which as a track thrives on its beat. Unfortunately there was no beat... it was as if the set up had stripped the song of several tracks. The adviser did say you could listen to Linn for hours because it was not demanding, which may well be correct, but it was just incredibly dull to my ears. I was really disappointed.

I then listened to a lower level Rega CD amp set up with Neat Motive sx1's and it was much better, albeit coming direct from CD as opposed to being streamed lossless from a NAS.

I then listened to the Naim Uniti 2 which we paired with the Neat Motive sx1's . It was immediately much more musical and interesting than the Linn and a level up from the Rega. The music came alive straight away and the SX1's seemed to work well with the Naim equipment. They are a nice compact floorstander with a downward firing bass port so can go closer to walls.

I think I will go with the Uniti2 and set it up with my AE1's and my old technics platter. I can then compare it to the quad ( hopefully a success!) if that all works I would like to try the AE1's against the SX'1s and the the scm 11's if i can order and return. What was your final conclusion and which ATC dealer did you use?

Now I am thoroughly confused, I went to another dealer yesterday who had a Linn Majik Set up with the 140's and can do a Uniti 2 demo, so I am booking in. He is suggesting Spendor 5's or PMC 23's with the Uniti, but would also be interesing to see how they fare with the Linn 140's.

Having said what I said above I was able to listen to the Majik and the 140's again, and they sounded totally different to the first set up at the other dealer...aghhh. Ed sheerans bloodstream had base and detail that were so missing at the previous dealer. The dealer suggested that when I listened before it could be that the space optimisation had not be set up correctly with the original set up and it makes a huge difference.

I now have to hear the units back to back. HI have a non Linn dealer happy to lend the Uniti 2 for the weekend, just need to find an accomodating Linn dealer prepared to do the same and then I will have a proper in room comparison!