my system

[SteveR750]

They may well do, but I'm surprised that they haven't conducted & published a review specifically on the new 40s. Love or hate ATC, it's a significant moment

Of your set up smc40s and a powerful sub . Who needs the 360 Gonna be looking into that soon

[/quote

I have read some inspiring reviews of the ATC SCM 40 MK2 which makes me want to audion them. But I am a little deflated to learn that they need subwoofers for some. I was hoping these speakers were an all in one solution with out the need for subwoofers?

You don't "need" a sub with them, but it's the icing on the cake in a biggish room with a huge bass null at 40hz. If you do match a sub to them, be prepared to spend enough time setting up the phasing and volume correctly. An spl meter is pretty much essential, though there are phone app meters but are very hardware dependent. In context, the ATC's are much stronger in the bass than my proac D18 were, and by some margin.

Perhaps a measure of how well a system performs is how little you think of it, as a separate entity; one indicator is how much time you spend contemplating it on hi fi forums! I've not been very active recently, mostly because I've stopped thinking about hi fi, though haven't reduced the amount of music I listen to. If you get a chance, take a listen, they really are a superbly balanced speaker.

 

[Romulus]

Any chance if time permits to listen to the ATCs?

Regards Andrew

Hi Andrew

I'll let you know

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

[/quote

Hurry up with the arrangements for the audition as we all want to read the review. The What HiFi Forum seems to be grinding to a halt and irritating pop up ads are appearing on each newer thread. This thread is keeping the forum interesting... and alive..

Hi Romulas Im collecting my new cables in thursday evening. Now i could have collected them already but wanted to demo atc through the h360 also. this has been arranged so will do a very detailed review as best i can. can i ask you? Do you also have a hegel amp or are you interested in one? Feel free to ask me any questions about the sq etc. I cant say enough good things about the quality and also value for money.

Hi Andrew,

I would be very interested in your review of the Hegel H360 via ATC, also your comparisons to the Hegel H160. Hegel Amps have caught my imagination from reading the reviews also ATC speakers (the newest ATC homemade speakers with their own Tweeter). Ofcourse one can read all the information one can want from reviews (around the world) and from users like yourself from Forums (which are more significant for me) but the acid test is to audition the components for myself, alas I might be completely deflated or unimpressed by the sound. The problem is that my dreams and aspirations tend to go higher then my wallet. I was brought up on the 'Naim' system with the Naim sound and thats why in previous forums I was so interested in the difference between a Naim Supernait 2 and a Hegel H160. I now have a modest system and to my suprise I do not miss the famous 'PRAT' which I had in my Naim system, so I am thinking if I am to upgrade the Hegel H160 appears to bring different perspective to the sound. I love my music which basically arisen from heavy rock in my teens to all kinds of music and would like a better potrayal of timbre in a future upgrade, I listen to a lot of instrumentals (espescially Arabic music). At present I am saving the pennies and look forward to your review.

 

[SteveR750]

Any chance if time permits to listen to the ATCs?

Regards Andrew

Hi Andrew

I'll let you know

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

[/quote

Hurry up with the arrangements for the audition as we all want to read the review. The What HiFi Forum seems to be grinding to a halt and irritating pop up ads are appearing on each newer thread. This thread is keeping the forum interesting... and alive..

Hi Romulas Im collecting my new cables in thursday evening. Now i could have collected them already but wanted to demo atc through the h360 also. this has been arranged so will do a very detailed review as best i can. can i ask you? Do you also have a hegel amp or are you interested in one? Feel free to ask me any questions about the sq etc. I cant say enough good things about the quality and also value for money.

Hi Andrew,

I would be very interested in your review of the Hegel H360 via ATC, also your comparisons to the Hegel H160. Hegel Amps have caught my imagination from reading the reviews also ATC speakers (the newest ATC homemade speakers with their own Tweeter). Ofcourse one can read all the information one can want from reviews (around the world) and from users like yourself from Forums (which are more significant for me) but the acid test is to audition the components for myself, alas I might be completely deflated or unimpressed by the sound. The problem is that my dreams and aspirations tend to go higher then my wallet. I was brought up on the 'Naim' system with the Naim sound and thats why in previous forums I was so interested in the difference between a Naim Supernait 2 and a Hegel H160. I now have a modest system and to my suprise I do not miss the famous 'PRAT' which I had in my Naim system, so I am thinking if I am to upgrade the Hegel H160 appears to bring different perspective to the sound. I love my music which basically arisen from heavy rock in my teens to all kinds of music and would like a better potrayal of timbre in a future upgrade, I listen to a lot of instrumentals (espescially Arabic music). At present I am saving the pennies and look forward to your review.

FWIW, I auditioned the supernait 2 before deciding on the hegel. Both are great amps, but the hegel goes louder without getting flustered, in fact a lot louder. Not many cheaper amps have enough capability to control the ATC designs, which are essentially "floppy" long throw drivers, with the air spring of a sealed enclosure preventing them from becoming too unwieldy, upshot being damping factor is probably more important than other ported designs using drivers with a significantly higher free air natural resonance.

 

[dantt]

Sorry to hijack the discussion,but how about the Hegel H80?How do you see comparison to H160 in terms of control?Thank you.

 

[SteveR750]

I'd be guessing as I've never heard the h80. I doubt it's shabby, probably a good used buy if you can find one, or perhaps better look at the Abrahamsen which probably does all that the hegel amps but without as much power, literally not metaphorically

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Sorry to hijack the discussion,but how about the Hegel H80?How do you see comparison to H160 in terms of control?Thank you.

Hi dantt

Control is already the H80's strong point

however the H160 takes this to another level which enables the H160 to grip, drive and punch much harder then the already impessive H80

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[SteveR750]

but do they sound as involving?

My experience is yes, and more so.

 

[drummerman]

For me, the low damping factor of Naim amplifiers make up part of its musicality, given a sympathetic speaker match. Something they have in common with some valve amplifiers as well as an infectious rythmic drive.

It may not be totally correct in hifi terms but it gives them their distinctive sound. That and high frequency limitation. Naim amplifier are not wide-bandwidth. This in itself has some advantages.

There is talk about a new generation of Naim amplifiers and I for one hope they stay true to their house sound.

Can't comment on Hegel (other than looks) but on paper they read like very controlling and hifi which probably appeals to many. Their power too will suit many speakers and yes, they will no doubt go louder than most Naim amplifiers but do they sound as involving?

For myself, most of my listening takes place at lowish volume so how an amplifier performs at half a watt to perhaps ten at most, is really more important than outright loudness. This of course necessitates speakers that have comparable characteristics.

 

[dantt]

Thanks for your answers.I allready have H80 with Dynaudio excite X16,and i`m very happy,but i have to admit i need sometimes extra power.For example i need sometimes to turn at 75 to the volume scale to play loud,and i wonder if H160 it's a better option.Don't get me rong,only in 10% from time i listen so loud.

 

[Jota180]

For me, the low damping factor of Naim amplifiers make up part of its musicality, given a sympathetic speaker match. Something they have in common with some valve amplifiers as well as an infectious rythmic drive.

It may not be totally correct in hifi terms but it gives them their distinctive sound. That and high frequency limitation. Naim amplifier are not wide-bandwidth. This in itself has some advantages.

There is talk about a new generation of Naim amplifiers and I for one hope they stay true to their house sound.

Can't comment on Hegel (other than looks) but on paper they read like very controlling and hifi which probably appeals to many. Their power too will suit many speakers and yes, they will no doubt go louder than most Naim amplifiers but do they sound as involving?

For myself, most of my listening takes place at lowish volume so how an amplifier performs at half a watt to perhaps ten at most, is really more important than outright loudness. This of course necessitates speakers that have comparable characteristics.

My H160 is every bit as involving as my NAP 100 was. Without a proper A/B it's hard to say exactly what the differences are but there was one area that was clearly obvious and that was bass control. It's probably an unfair comparison given the price difference.

 

[drummerman]

For me, the low damping factor of Naim amplifiers make up part of its musicality, given a sympathetic speaker match. Something they have in common with some valve amplifiers as well as an infectious rythmic drive.

It may not be totally correct in hifi terms but it gives them their distinctive sound. That and high frequency limitation. Naim amplifier are not wide-bandwidth. This in itself has some advantages.

There is talk about a new generation of Naim amplifiers and I for one hope they stay true to their house sound.

Can't comment on Hegel (other than looks) but on paper they read like very controlling and hifi which probably appeals to many. Their power too will suit many speakers and yes, they will no doubt go louder than most Naim amplifiers but do they sound as involving?

For myself, most of my listening takes place at lowish volume so how an amplifier performs at half a watt to perhaps ten at most, is really more important than outright loudness. This of course necessitates speakers that have comparable characteristics.

My H160 is every bit as involving as my NAP 100 was. Without a proper A/B it's hard to say exactly what the differences are but there was one area that was clearly obvious and that was bass control. It's probably an unfair comparison given the price difference.

Slightly

If you use a speaker with less inherent acoustic damping, a high damping factor amplifier will certainly assert more control in that area.

On the other hand, if your speakers have high inherent acoustic damping and you use something like your Hegel, the result could, on paper at least, look somewhat dry and lean ...

Like I said, I have never heard a Hegel so my comments relate more to the Naim sound which I happen to like a bit.

I would equally love to build a nice system around the Hegel, if I could afford one! (and if it was prettier)

 

[Jota180]

For me, the low damping factor of Naim amplifiers make up part of its musicality, given a sympathetic speaker match. Something they have in common with some valve amplifiers as well as an infectious rythmic drive.

It may not be totally correct in hifi terms but it gives them their distinctive sound. That and high frequency limitation. Naim amplifier are not wide-bandwidth. This in itself has some advantages.

There is talk about a new generation of Naim amplifiers and I for one hope they stay true to their house sound.

Can't comment on Hegel (other than looks) but on paper they read like very controlling and hifi which probably appeals to many. Their power too will suit many speakers and yes, they will no doubt go louder than most Naim amplifiers but do they sound as involving?

For myself, most of my listening takes place at lowish volume so how an amplifier performs at half a watt to perhaps ten at most, is really more important than outright loudness. This of course necessitates speakers that have comparable characteristics.

My H160 is every bit as involving as my NAP 100 was. Without a proper A/B it's hard to say exactly what the differences are but there was one area that was clearly obvious and that was bass control. It's probably an unfair comparison given the price difference.

Slightly

If you use a speaker with less inherent acoustic damping, a high damping factor amplifier will certainly assert more control in that area.

On the other hand, if your speakers have high inherent acoustic damping and you use something like your Hegel, the result could, on paper at least, look somewhat dry and lean ...

Like I said, I have never heard a Hegel so my comments relate more to the Naim sound which I happen to like a bit.

I would equally love to build a nice system around the Hegel, if I could afford one! (and if it was prettier)

It is rather nondescript looking but I tend to listen to music with the lights down low and the display set to off (not for any sonic differences, perceived or otherwise with switching the display off) and in that situation, I don't even see the set up. I understand some people may take as much pleasure in the aesthetics as they do in the sound but for me personally it's not a clincher. Obviously given a choice of two amps similar in specs, abilities and price I'd plump for the tastier looking one but looks alone wont nudge me towards a lesser specced or abilitied amp. The H160 ticked the boxes for me for it's sound quality and with it's network abilities, inbuilt DAC and the quality of the headphone socket which was an immediate revelation to someone who is used to amplifier headphone sockets for over 30 years!

All the other integrateds I'd previously owned were a much of a muchness when it came to the built in headphone amp. That big leap in headphone quality on the H160 has now made me wonder what a seperate headphone amp would sound like.

There's a nice touch with the amp that when you switch it on it defaults to a low volume level (you can customise this level) so no loud surprises if you switch it on later at night. The same applies to the headphone amp section so no accidentally blowing your ear drums out when you plug the phones in.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Thanks for your answers.I allready have H80 with Dynaudio excite X16,and i`m very happy,but i have to admit i need sometimes extra power.For example i need sometimes to turn at 75 to the volume scale to play loud,and i wonder if H160 it's a better option.Don't get me rong,only in 10% from time i listen so loud.

Hi dantt

Yes, the H160 has got alot more power available however and importantly the H160 also has greater quality of power and performance which i find can be appreciated at almost any listening level

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[SteveR750]

Had a very long demo yesterday of the hegel atc matching. Ita a very good match. Im convinced if i had this mating id be satisfied for a very long time. Having said that the sound comming out of my kefs is also very good atm. Ill do a review of my new amp tonight when im on night shift

Which ones Andrew? I reckon the 360 could blow the doors off some of the bigger ATC passives! I think a 360 driving some scm150s would be *involving*

 

[dantt]

Thank you Rick,so you suggest for my speaker to go for H160?Or maybe change the speaker for something more sensitive?

 

[dantt]

Thank you for your answer Andrew.

 

[drummerman]

So ive had my new very thick 6mm 500 strand ofc speaker cables on from using siver aniversary and the change just what my system needed. Now i can go loud without any problems and the bass is much better. I was unsure about all the cable debates going on but ill say you dont need to spend a fortune on cables and as long as they are thick enough with good quality coper they will be just as good as any other expensive cable.

Now onto my review: when i changed from roksan to hegel h160 the jump in quality was so large that it really had a big affect on me. The hidden details that stood out, the bass definition and control. Now being used to the hegel sound the jump is not so evident at first but now im used to the amp.

Well the trebble and midrange stand out more prominant. So its a little clearer but the bass is something else. The 4000 damping factor using the sound engine 2 makes a big difference. The bass texture will amaze you. Ita a great amp for musicians as you can really feel the strings and technique of the musician.

It sounds so powerful without making your ears sore. Its very smooth and easy on the ear. Crystal clear and every single detail can be heard. Imagine a music track broken down into all the seperate instruments so you can listen seperately to each instrument. That how easy it is to follow any part of the track. There is so little harmonic distortion that all the echos and silence between the notes are much more apparent. The transient details jump out at you but not to distract from the main beat. The amp is also very fast stops and starts like lightning. Also effects that are normally hard to hear stand out very clear. This will supprise you at first when your getting used to the sound. The sound is very natural also very close to having the artist in your room with you. Its like a live sound. Ive used heavy metel, pop, jazz, hiphop and folk music and it suits all styles. The amp is not warm, bright or anything like that it just sounds like music is meant. Its got the rythm and timming of other famous amps and to my ears has no weakness at all. I can not say enough about hegel amps but especially the h360. When you get goose bumps from mysic youve heard for the last 20 years that says something. My best band korn play 7 string ibanez down tuned really low and the way i hear their music now is so differnent due to the detail and texture of the guitars and bass. Katie melua a stark contrast sounds so good. Ive even started listening to other genre of music now due to how good it sounds - something no other make of amp has made me want to do that before( i am getting older though)

Watched my first movie today catching fire bluray connected via rca. When the dts logo came on at the beginning it sounded like a transformer had come into the lounge - very impressed. So it handles movies great also. No need for surround sound but it has AV bypass so i can hook it up to a surround reciever in the future also. My speakers are kefr700s and they sound great but ive set my heart on atc smc40s as they are even better.

Both h160 and h360 are great amps and i could easy have lived with the h160. I never lacked anything but just wanted the h360 but the improvement has been worth it.Everything has a price point and the more you spend the better you get but dont worry as the h160 is still a very good amp its just the 360 is better in every way. Anyone looking for a new amp check them out. They are not cheap but offer great value for money also and are built to last.

Oh and they look beautiful too lol

You have a great way with words and it is very interestingto hear someones opinion of what is a very lofty hifi combination. - I am envious (and frightened of that Hegel)

Now that you dabble in the higher echelons of musical replay, just as jaxwire is (he is probably reading this and ordering a Schmegel for home audition purposes right now), don't you feel tempted to try the system he has? One he has arrived at after years of dibbledabbling ... . I think he uses a Devialet and PMC's. -I believe he was saying that 'it doesn't get any better' about the PMC.

Happy weekend children x

 

[CnoEvil]

Great review...Much of it describes the sound I get from my amp, so I know where you're coming from. It's also why I keep banging on about the importance of the amp.

FWIW. It is exactly what those R700s need, so you will really be hearing what they are capable of.....if the SCM40s outclass them, they must be outstanding. Interesting times ahead.

 

[iQ Speakers]

Great review and thread thanks for being so open and as DM say a way with words. Interesting you pick up on the starting and stoping of notes and the split second silence in between. Bass notes are tight they start and stop quickly (slew rate, large PSU?) Translates into an amp that bounds along and sounds very natural and dynamique. Im hopfully loading the car up next week to take the Abrahamsen and some speakers into deepest darkest west Wales to visit SteveR750 can not wait to hear the Hegel and the ATC's.

 

[SteveR750]

So ive had my new very thick 6mm 500 strand ofc speaker cables on from using siver aniversary and the change just what my system needed. Now i can go loud without any problems and the bass is much better. I was unsure about all the cable debates going on but ill say you dont need to spend a fortune on cables and as long as they are thick enough with good quality coper they will be just as good as any other expensive cable.

Now onto my review: when i changed from roksan to hegel h160 the jump in quality was so large that it really had a big affect on me. The hidden details that stood out, the bass definition and control. Now being used to the hegel sound the jump is not so evident at first but now im used to the amp.

Well the trebble and midrange stand out more prominant. So its a little clearer but the bass is something else. The 4000 damping factor using the sound engine 2 makes a big difference. The bass texture will amaze you. Ita a great amp for musicians as you can really feel the strings and technique of the musician.

It sounds so powerful without making your ears sore. Its very smooth and easy on the ear. Crystal clear and every single detail can be heard. Imagine a music track broken down into all the seperate instruments so you can listen seperately to each instrument. That how easy it is to follow any part of the track. There is so little harmonic distortion that all the echos and silence between the notes are much more apparent. The transient details jump out at you but not to distract from the main beat. The amp is also very fast stops and starts like lightning. Also effects that are normally hard to hear stand out very clear. This will supprise you at first when your getting used to the sound. The sound is very natural also very close to having the artist in your room with you. Its like a live sound. Ive used heavy metel, pop, jazz, hiphop and folk music and it suits all styles. The amp is not warm, bright or anything like that it just sounds like music is meant. Its got the rythm and timming of other famous amps and to my ears has no weakness at all. I can not say enough about hegel amps but especially the h360. When you get goose bumps from mysic youve heard for the last 20 years that says something. My best band korn play 7 string ibanez down tuned really low and the way i hear their music now is so differnent due to the detail and texture of the guitars and bass. Katie melua a stark contrast sounds so good. Ive even started listening to other genre of music now due to how good it sounds - something no other make of amp has made me want to do that before( i am getting older though)

Watched my first movie today catching fire bluray connected via rca. When the dts logo came on at the beginning it sounded like a transformer had come into the lounge - very impressed. So it handles movies great also. No need for surround sound but it has AV bypass so i can hook it up to a surround reciever in the future also. My speakers are kefr700s and they sound great but ive set my heart on atc smc40s as they are even better.

Both h160 and h360 are great amps and i could easy have lived with the h160. I never lacked anything but just wanted the h360 but the improvement has been worth it.Everything has a price point and the more you spend the better you get but dont worry as the h160 is still a very good amp its just the 360 is better in every way. Anyone looking for a new amp check them out. They are not cheap but offer great value for money also and are built to last.

Oh and they look beautiful too lol

You have a great way with words and it is very interestingto hear someones opinion of what is a very lofty hifi combination. - I am envious (and frightened of that Hegel)

Now that you dabble in the higher echelons of musical replay, just as jaxwire is (he is probably reading this and ordering a Schmegel for home audition purposes right now), don't you feel tempted to try the system he has? One he has arrived at after years of dibbledabbling ... . I think he uses a Devialet and PMC's. -I believe he was saying that 'it doesn't get any better' about the PMC.

Happy weekend children x

"... EXTERMINATE!....EXTERMINATE!.... EXTERMINATE!.... " Be very very wary Mr Drummerman

One thing that strikes me is that the world and his budgie know about the ATC" entry level" series, which runs from the SCM11 up to the 50 actives. There is though another, bigger range beyond, the "classic" series that are frankly way more scary looking than any black boxes out of Norway, or indeed anything I've seen from most other speaker manufacturers. I've never seen any reviews, but I really want to explore the upper echelons of their range. If the relationship between looks, sonic ability and price is maintained up there, then they should be spectacular. The only other speaker manufacturer that I take as seriously is PMC, and would have gone for some 20.26 if I hadn't heard the ATCs in time.

 

[SteveR750]

Great review and thread thanks for being so open and as DM say a way with words. Interesting you pick up on the starting and stoping of notes and the split second silence in between. Bass notes are tight they start and stop quickly (slew rate, large PSU?) Translates into an amp that bounds along and sounds very natural and dynamique. Im hopfully loading the car up next week to take the Abrahamsen and some speakers into deepest darkest west Wales to visit SteveR750 can not wait to hear the Hegel and the ATC's.

Looking forward to this Colin. Is it not too late to persuade Matt49 to bring his devialet along? That would be interesting, especially if there is a SAM profile for the ATCs

 

[gowiththeflow]

An interesting comparison with the Hegel H360 + ATC SCM40 combo, would be the active version of those ATC speakers, the SCM40A.

The active SCM40A contains an active crossover and a set of amps specifically tailored to the speakers drivers. Obviously it does away with the need for speaker cables and the vagaries of trying to match amps and speakers. It's also a cheaper option than buying the passive version along with the H360.

 

[SteveR750]

An interesting comparison with the Hegel H360 + ATC SCM40 combo, would be the active version of those ATC speakers, the SCM40A.

The active SCM40A contains an active crossover and a set of amps specifically tailored to the speakers drivers. Obviously it does away with the need for speaker cables and the vagaries of trying to match amps and speakers. It's also a cheaper option than buying the passive version along with the H360.

I'm of the opinion that you could be right, with the added benefit of being able to run a sub properly integrated into the system. Now, if ATC were to ask the like of hegel to supply their electronics!

 

[CnoEvil]

It has a very good power supply of current. You did recomend it when i searched. Maybe i should have given it a demo but i had my heart on the hegel. No doubt its just as good as many on here are super happy and the kefs are very very good.

My amp is a bit of a dinosaur....big, heavy, power hungry and extinct....so going for a more modern solution is probably the right way to go.

 

[SteveR750]

Then im also comming lol

Welcome Andrew, but I don't think it would be kind on your wallet if you started listening to devialet! I expect to find the amps to be similar until we start to drive the ATCs properly at lifelike volume levels.