My experience with mains.

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I don't want to re-open any debate here, but I thought some of you might be interested in my findings (and also the views of an old guy who has been trying to achieve "High Fidelity" sound since before the days when cassette tapes were invented.)

Some few yeas ago, I was convinced that my system sounded better at night and late evening. I read some stuff about the quality of the mains supply and how maybe it might be better at night so decided to "give it a go". I ran a seperate spur from the junction box with shielded cable, to a dedicated, unswitched, socket (yes even the switches can be thought to make a difference). I built a very high spec mains conditioner - much better than any commerically available design and plugged this into the socket. I then plugged the amp and cd player into this and started to do serious back to back testing, to compare the new spur with the old ring main and also both with and without the conditioner. Results?

Zero. Zilch. Diddly squat. Nothing. No noticeable improvement.

Then one day, by accident I found the improvement I was looking for....... I drew the curtains. We have a large patio door and thick heavy curtains. When I listened at night, we had the curtains drawn. During the day they were open. This was reason it sounded better. Nothing to do with the mains supply.

Now don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that this is any conclusive proof of anything. What I am saying is be very careful that you only change one thing at a time and that this is not as easy as you might think. For example, you may think that your TV picture is somehow better when you use a different stand. Is that really the case or is it because you have slightly re-postioned the TV and moved it away from a poorly sheilded source? You may think your new speaker cable is better than the old one you were using. Is this really true or is it because, when you unplugged the old cable and plugged in the new, it cleaned the terminals?

Most importantly. Personally, I'll take a lot of convincing that mains cables make any sort of difference. However, that's just me. If it works for you, stuff what anybody else thinks, do it! No matter how outrageous it may be and no matter how this is "bucking the trend". It is your system, in your room, and it's your ears. Don't be "one of the flock" but be aware that, in my time, I've seen and heard a lot of "snake oil". Also, at the end of the day, all manufacturers have one thing in common. They all want your money and some of the less scrupulous will make outrageous claims.

Finally, let's all be honest. If we've just spent a lot of our hard earned cash on something, it is very hard to admit that it was a waste of money. This is human nature. But if we are all honest, others will benefit from our experience.

That's it. I'll get down from my soap box now. Sorry to inflict the ramblings of a boring old f**t on you but I thought it might help or at least prompt some thought processes.
 

John Duncan

Well-known member
I disagree with you on the advantages of clean mains, but agree with your secondary argument - if it (ie anything) works for you, great, if not, don't buy it - I have found improvements with a mains filter and good interconnects, but have struggled hearing a difference between my Cambridge 640p phono stage and that in my 20-year-old alpha, for example.
 
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Anonymous

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John, a very valid point. It could well be that I may see some improvements with my separate spur etc, as and when I upgrade to more expensive kit. However, the other point I was trying to make was that the cause and /or solution to a problem might not be quite as straightforward as we think. As a side issue, how do you think modern Cambridge gear compares with Arcam on similar priced products? I've always liked the Arcam sound but have had bad experiences with reliability (probably just my bad luck but it tends to put one off). Cheers
 

John Duncan

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I've found modern Arcam gear a bit too relaxing for my taste, and am in the throes of pensioning off my old Alpha (which is lacklustre) for something a bit more dynamic - Cambridge would certainly be on my shortlist sub-£300, though I may go a bit higher end (Roksan, Creek, Primare). This is in the context of getting a new turntable which I was expecting to wow me, and it hasn't, and I think the amp's the weak link, but haven't demo'd anything at home yet that would prove it.

I have heard murmurs of poor QA on Cambridge products, but they may be a vocal minority, as is the way with the internet, but in contrast my Alpha hasn't needed anything doing to it since I got it in 1988 (though the flat sound may be a result of components going off, I don't know about these things).

Suffice to say though, bearing in mind I spent a third of my monthly salary on the Alpha back then (I have tried this line on my wife to no avail for the replacement), value for money from the likes of Cambridge and Arcam is spectacular nowadays, so maybe we have to accept some compromises in quality control procedures..........
 
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Anonymous

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John, thanks for that. It kind of reinforces what I was thinking. On the subject of better halves, I've done a deal but it's well expensive. She gets the new ensuite/bedroom thing, I get the audio visual thing. So before I can start spending dosh on my stuff, I have to extend the en-suite so that I can accomodate a walk in shower, which means moving the airing cupboard complete with hot water tank, which means moving the boiler pump and valves, which means...... And then there is a new shower unit, illuminated mirror, designer radiator, cabinets, tiles, flooring, then new wardrobes, carpets....... It could be long time........
 

John Duncan

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My turntable was contingent on getting new shelves in all the alcoves in our living room and idning room (primarily to accommodate the record collection that would have to come out of storage). Obviously I had to get it out of the box just to check it was working though.........
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="wellilikeit"]
I then plugged the amp and cd player into this and started to do serious back to back testing, to compare the new spur with the old ring main and also both with and without the conditioner. Results?

Zero. Zilch. Diddly squat. Nothing. No noticeable improvement.
[/quote]

That is the expected result. :) Mains conditioners, extra spurs and leads don't (can't) actually affect the sound at all. Conditioners might reduce interference but if you can't hear any without one you don't have any.

[quote user="wellilikeit"]let's all be honest. If we've just spent a lot of our hard earned cash on something, it is very hard to admit that it was a waste of money.[/quote]

It's all about believing there is a difference. If you listen expecting an improvement you'll hear one.
 

Clare Newsome

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Yay! Thanks Mr Mc - I just won the office sweepstake on how long it'd take you to jump on this thread and peddle your opinions-as-fact
emotion-2.gif
 

John Duncan

Well-known member
I have a suggestion. Seeing as I'm just round the corner from the WHFS&V offices, why don't you drop off an Isotek something-or-other (oh and some Abbey Road Reference interconnects while you're at it), and I shall happily attest to the fact that it has no effect at all, in which case I may as well keep them.
 

Andrew Everard

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[quote user="JohnDuncan"]I shall happily attest to the fact that it has no effect at all, in which case I may as well keep them.[/quote]

But if they have no effect at all, why would you want to keep them?
 
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Anonymous

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Looks like I failed. In my OP I stated that I didn't want to start a debate. Oh well, win some lose some...........
 

John Duncan

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[quote user="Andrew Everard"]

[quote user="JohnDuncan"]I shall happily attest to the fact that it has no effect at all, in which case I may as well keep them.[/quote]

But if they have no effect at all, why would you want to keep them?

[/quote]

So that whenever this debate comes up, I can act as reference point. "My wife says she can't tell the difference".

And indeed, why stop there? Send me all the sub £1k integrateds you have lying around (not forgetting Creek), bookshelf loudspeakers (£2k tops, let's not be silly), a 37" telly (Full HD not necessary at that size), a Blu Ray source (any) and a full wireless solution of some sort, I can be first point of call for 90% of forum questions.
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="Clare Newsome"]
Yay! Thanks Mr Mc - I just won the office sweepstake on how long it'd take you to jump on this thread and peddle your opinions-as-fact
emotion-2.gif


[/quote]

Did you win a lot of money?
emotion-2.gif


I can prove what I say.
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="Andrew Everard"]
[quote user="Keith McAlpine"][/quote]

Major! Wait! Look into the pit. There's something still alive down there...

emotion-18.gif

[/quote]

It's your reflection.
emotion-2.gif
 
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Anonymous

Guest
[quote user="Andrew Everard"]
[quote user="Keith McAlpine"]It's your reflection.
emotion-2.gif
[/quote]



That's you, that is

etc...
[/quote]

LMAO!!!!

Andrew, you now owe me one new keyboard.................... to replace the one I've just sprayed with coffee!
 

Andrew Everard

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[quote user="JohnDuncan"]settled on the sofa with a Nacho Combo and a bag of Minstrels[/quote]

You sybarite, you!

It's going to be along the lines of "because every right-thinking informed scientist knows it's so".

Just like every right-thinking informed person knew that...

 

Alec

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Is that a flat earth-er reference? Few people ever actually believed that. just thought that was Q.I, and worth mentioning. Not that i in any way want to align myself with Mr Old-whatever-his-name-is. Im jus' sayin'.
 

John Duncan

Well-known member
Whoa, Kansas album covers a-go-go!

I'm a scientist, and I think it's not. And as any right thinking scientist will know, you only need one example to disprove a theorem.

Unless of course I'm not right-thinking, in which case I disappear in a puff of logic (¸).
 

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